i'm on a roll, I guess I'll start a new thread for each verse, to organize our work.  And I might as well post the full text for reference, then begin the brainstorming in a reply. Verse 8: View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world At a distance in time From three who lived there At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing Step on nature Cast in copper Ascend the 92 steps After climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits.

"View the three stories of Mitchell" 1) an author named Mitchell (first or last name?) with 3 stories on display somehow. 2) a 3-story high building, -a) named the Mitchell Building, or something similar -b) in the town of mitchell, -c) or in Mitchell Square or Street "Ascend the 92 steps" Only 92 steps total?  That should be an obvious landmark. "After climbing the grand 200" I'm tempted to look for Grand CC or someother play on words for 200. "You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth" Another searchable phrase?

You seem to be all over this one Cat.  Come now, put the thinking cap on and take off the Rose colored glasses.

the opening sentence of this V seems to give us a general location.  3 stories of Mitchell seems to try to make us think of an author named Mitchell......one Margaret Mitchell perhaps?  But 3 stories?  She was famous for Gone With The Wind but did she have 2 other famous works?  Not really.  So, with a little investigation, I located the house she did most of her writing in in Atlanta GA.  Yup, you guessed it, it is a 3 story house... and it is on the Historical Registry.  I am still trying to figure out the rest ( last part becoming very precise in locating the casque)...we may just have to be there to follow these steps.  Are you up for it Egg?  I'm leaning towards a large park near the house called Peidmont Park.  This, however; is just a gut feeling.

Unknown: Verse 8: View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world At a distance in time From three who lived there At a distance in space Here is Mitchell Hall, in Milwaukee. hxxp://www.uwm.edu/map/buildings/vt-mit-prof.html It looks like it's 3 stories high, and was named in honor of 3 people.

Unknown: You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits. Wonderstone originates from Africa (South Africa). hxxp://www.galleryofstone.com/stone_info/pages/wonderstone_info.htm However, it is also found in the western U.S. hxxp://www.geocities.com/av_gem/Wonderstone.html Could this part of the verse just refer to seeing the letters "S" or "A"? (South Africa -- the COUNTRY of wonderstone's hearth)

and the building houses the university's Dept. of Africanology. Would the casque be "buried" inside a building?  Walk the halls, find a clue?

Dwarves' treasure: purple Amethyst, Imperial star of Germany Milwaukee is known for it's large set of German immigrants. Maybe the Amethyst picture goes with this verse?

Unknown: Ascend the 92 steps After climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits. I was searching for things with 92 steps.  There are quite a bit!  The most notable is "El Castillo" in Mexico (it IS in North America): hxxp://www.mexperience.com/inmexico/photos/10chichen.htm I am going to post this under Image 8 as well --- the one that looks like it's in the desert.  Please take a moment to look at the pictures of the nearby columns --- they look strikingly similar to Image 8. However, if you look at the verse, it appears that after climbing these 92 steps, you then continue your journey.  So, with "El Castillo," or any structure that has 92 steps on it, you have nowhere to go --- so it seems that the verse does not apply here. So I started digging for paths that have 92 steps.  There is an "Alta Vista" path in Santa Barbara, California, but in order to determine if it's the right one, someone would have to go there.  Here is the site that has it (among many other paths).  Just do a "find" on the page for "92 steps." hxxp://www.internettime.com/bpwa/latest_paths.htm Finally, here's another place that has 92 steps --- look at the entry for Aug. 11. hxxp://www.roamingamerica.com/travelog/michigan/michigan.html As for "the grand 200," it could refer to 200,000 of something (200 grand), or maybe 200 of something which are referred to as "Grand," such as 200 Grand Pianos.

Unknown: View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world Unknown: At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing That reminds me of a Foucault Pendulum, which illustrates the Earth's rotation as it swings back and forth.  We see them in science musuems and planetariums. Jan Vermeer, The Concert (c1665-6) Vermeer’s The Concert (one of the greatest of his remaining 36 paintings) was stolen from the Isabella Stewart Gardener Museum, Boston on 18 March, 1990 – the biggest heist in US history. The thieves dressed as policemen and convinced security they were checking the museum. The priceless work pictures a man playing the lute, a young woman playing the harpsichord and another singer. So was it still in Boston in 1982?

View the three stories of Mitchell I know, I know.  We don't want to bring in another city.  However, I post this here for what it's worth.  The 3-story house of Margaret Mitchell: hxxp://www.gwtw.org/mitchellhouse.html Perhaps the verse may be referring to books instead of floors?

I'm with you Egg.  I've thought all along (& believe I was the one who first introduced the 3 level home of MM in Atlanta to the boards) that this V is for Atlanta....to be more precise...my gut says the casque is buried somewhere in Piedmont Park....

Oops.  Sorry, Fox --- I forgot that you had posted that previously.  Well, hopefully it is NOT in Atlanta, because that would mean that 2 of our current 13 possible locations are wrong. (Chicago, Cleveland, Boston, New Orleans, Charleston, San Francisco, North Carolina, Florida, New York City, Houston, Salt Lake City, St. Louis, Canada)

yes I know.....we really have to find another casque to start narrowing our list or else find another almost concrete theory (which I believe Houston to be). Are there any other famous Mitchells that have either written 3 known stories (margaret wrote more) or live in a very popular 3 story house?  Atlanta is still very high on my list for this one for the moment  :P

most probably meaningless but chapter 67 of A Treatise of Human Nature by the Scottish philosopher/historian David Hume speaks both of a distance in time and a distance in space.

I seem to remember that Wonderstone comes from south africa hxxp://www.giancarlostone.com/wonderstone.html and also from Utah. wilhouse.

Unknown: Wonderstone originates from Africa (South Africa). hxxp://www.galleryofstone.com/stone_info/pages/wonderstone_info.htm However, it is also found in the western U.S. hxxp://www.geocities.com/av_gem/Wonderstone.html Could this part of the verse just refer to seeing the letters "S" or "A"? (South Africa -- the COUNTRY of wonderstone's hearth) That's right.  This is one of my first posts on this thread:

ok....this is my second post here. I think im on to something.....but lets not break out the map just yet. I hope this info helps somebody gets a casque I believe new york city is this one (verse “View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world” Joseph Mitchell was a world famous columnist that wrote and lived in New York City. He worked for 3 different publications here, the "morning world", "herald tribune", and "world telegram"....the three stories of mitchell... As you walk the beating of the world....i think means as you walk in the "newspapers beat" he was in...where beat of the world either indicates the greatest newspaper beat to have during his time 1930's+ or indicates a beat where he covered all the immagrants from all around the world" I feal REAL sure about this......but let me give you a grain of salt for you to take with this. “Cast in copper Ascend the 92 steps After climbing the grand 200” I"THOUGHT" this refered to the statue of liberty....she is made of mostly copper.....and i thought that you climbed 292 steps......looking on the net, i saw the steps listed at like 354 throughout, or 192 from base to pedestal....but heres a link to a story where a handicapped worker at the statue happily climps the 292 steps inside the statues double helix staircase to sweep them once a day, 5 times a week hxxp://www.ont-autism.uoguelph.ca/autnewsjul7.shtml and the rest of the verse is exact directions from the statue of liberty or maybe from a point on liberty island you see from the view at 292 steps???.....there is a bridge to take to get onto the island...and trees there....(birch maybe)....and other small stautes on the grounds that could have a "letter from the country(maybe that even means the roman numeral on lady liberty's tablet)"????anyways i really thought it was buried on Liberty Island..... Well, bpreiss shot me an email saying there is no treasure on liberty island so much for my eureka ;0 tell me if you think the joesph mitchell clue makes sense....i think im dead on.....and i had hoped the the liberty clue as well.....but oh well lemme know if you thnk this can mean new york city....maybe someone can take this and say.........EUREKA!!!!!   have a nice day your new treasure hunting pal from indiana

Hi mrshamrock welcome! moot point now but no bridge connects to Liberty Island. Id be suprised if there is a treasure in newyork and the box isn't in Central Park somewhere.

the bridge..... well, there is one coinnecting ellis island to liberty state park.....both very much in view of lady liberty......and liberty state park has birch trees in it........maybe ellis island does too.... i think that this small area...may be it...but then again i am brand new to this treasure hunter from indiana

Unknown: Id be suprised if there is a treasure in newyork and the box isn't in Central Park somewhere. as I posted in another thread, here is an email from BP stating there is not a treasure in Central Park ------------------------------------------------- From: To: Subject: Re: Sorry to bother you. Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:08 PM there is no treasure in central park -------------------------------------------------- P12 is obviously that of NYC.  Now we know there is no treasure in Central Park or Liberty Island.  2 NY sites down... ??,???,???,???,??? to go  ::) Shamrock, I really do like your ideas on Mitchell.  Many on the board, myself included have believed this line referred to Margaret Mitchell's (Gone w/ the Wind fame) 3 story house in Atlanta.  I think the NY Mitchell definitely needs some investigating.  Thanks for the new lead.  The "cast in copper" always seemed to be that of Lady Liberty but the steps never matched.  Nice find on the sweeping of 292 steps. Looks like it's time to slow down the focus on Atlanta and start researchin NYC (where we know a casque to be).  Keep the fresh ideas coming Shamrock!

my laterally-thinking brain wondered if there was an alternative way to think about the steps, that "92" is a description but not the literal number of steps. Ascend the "92" steps, -- the steps marked with a street address of 92, or -- the steps to a monument erected in 1892, or -- XCII is 92 in Roman numerals, followed by the grand CC, or -- some steps curving thru a garden path in the shape of a 92, or ...

ok..... im still going on about the "cast in copper" if you assume that you climb 292 steps of the staute.....then "see something from there (sounds shaky) there are 2 spots VERY CLOSE to liberty island.... ellis island- (which has a bridge to liberty state park) and is in p12 i believe  and liberty state park....which is less than 2000 feet from lady liberty, has a bridge and birch trees. so there are 2 more spots...... your treasure-backseat driver

another possible NY connection From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing.... at the Metropolitan Museum of Art is this famous piece: hxxp://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/todi/hd_todi.htm which unfortunatley puts us right back to the outskirts of Central Park.  ;D

BP just said it wasn't in central park not that it wasn't near central park

Just another possible angle for this verse: Maria Mitchell was the first American woman astronomer, and discovered a comet in 1847 which was named after her. 'At a distance in space from woman'. Her birthplace was 1 Vestal St, Nantucket - which is now a museum, and the observatory is next door at 3 Vestal St. 'Harpsichord' = Virginal = Vestal? The first congregational church in Nantucket has 92 steps to the top and affords the best views over the town.

Well here is the church... hxxp://www.nantucket.net/community/chur ... egational/ quite a beautiful church indeed. The one thing that seems to always bother me about this V is this:  "Ascend the 92 steps After climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert" It just doesnt seem right.  It tells you to climb (ascend) 92 steps after climbing 200 (more steps?) and then you reach the culvert.  If these are the correct directions, then the steps mentioned can not be interior steps of a building leading upwards.  They must be more like outdoors steps..on a path perhaps, or even an outdoors auditorium.  It does specify "ascend" and "climbing" but I am thinking these are very gradual steps over quite a distance where you can still find yourself near a culvert.  Does this make any sense?

Hey, Fox, I agree with you completely. I have been wondering about these lines a bit. For those unsure, a culvert is a ditch, usually to carry water away. It could be natural or man made, but it is outdoors. The way the verse is worded, I was supposing grand 200 might be a road or a street, such as the 200 block of Grand Street as opposed to steps. wilhouse

exactly wilhouse.  That is they way I was also looking at it.  Your 200 Grand St is a good idea.  Maybe somewhere off of Grand St., there are some stairs leading up a pathway or up the side of a hill which dumps out at a culvert.  Remember, the next few lines speak of rock, soil & a birch...sounds outdoors to me.

Perhaps something like this? hxxp://www.arts-cape.com/eyesthatsee/ny-grav-plaz.html Grand Ave Plaza....Brooklyn.  There is even a statue cast in copper.

more ramblings: 200 Grand St in NYC (Manhattan I believe) is the Pearl River Emporium.  I think this is one of the more talked about unknown shopping areas in and around little Italy & Chinatown. 200 Grand St in Brooklyn is the DAMASCUS CHRISTIAN CHURCH INC.  Still looking for a pic.

Ok, once again I find myself back in Piedmont Park in Atlanta.  Are any of our hunters from or near Atlanta? Take a look at these pictures taken around (I believe the outsides or less traveled portions) Piedmont Park: hxxp://www.diff.net/media/2001_06_Piedmont_Park/ "Ascend the 92 steps"  I dont know if there are 92 but the last photo of the stairway appears to have atleast 80 steps. "The foot of the culvert"  one photo actually shows a culvert..why..?...not sure since it isnt very pleasing to the eye. ""Below the bridge"  The bridge photo obviously has a walking trail beneath it. still searching for the nearby Compass and the statue/memorial/monument/plaque of or by a South African. (SA is wonderstone's hearth).

I counted 5 sets of 10 stairs - which is only 50  - unless there are several other unseen sets of stairs.

At least once in the opening pages, the book uses the term "wonderstone" as a catchall refering to each of the Fair Folk's jewels.  I think it is highly possible that the reference in this verse is not refering specifically to a wonderstone (of South Africa or Utah), but to the actual jewel in its corresponding picture.  Knowing this would, of course, give you a specific country to find the letter thereof.

dan, so what you are saying is that if this V goes with...say.. P1 (just an example) which is a pearl, we would have to find where pearls are predominately found and then there would be a letter/plaque etc from that location near the casque?  That does make sense...and once again, the V seems to be "leading" hunters to the obvious when it is the opposite we need. also, just a thought....maybe all that is located near the site is a "letter" as in A, B, C, D, etc...instead of a letter-correspondence.  Maybe a large P (for above mentioned pearl) nearby..?...

Unknown: which is a pearl, we would have to find where pearls are predominately found and then there would be a letter/plaque etc from that location near the casque?   Maybe a large P  nearby..?... Sorry, I missed this, are you saying an actual physical sign near a casque?  was there something like this in Clevland or Chicago?   Also could we expect signs to still be there unchanged after 22 years?  explain this thought to me a little more.

Actually, that's pretty close.  What I meant was that, for instance, if Verse 8 matches (for the sake of this discussion) with Image 10, then the wonderstone in question would be the Amethyst.  Because each image has a corresponding country, "wonderstone's hearth" in this case would mean Germany.  Whether this would be some sort of correspondence letter in German involved in a sculpture or actually the letter "G", I have no idea. Page 7: "You are about to learn of their wonderstones, the twelve treasures brought with them in their passage..." I could have sworn that the term was used twice in the opening, but I can't seem to find the second one. Personally, I find it very hard to believe that the book would use this term describing all of the jewels in the opening pages, and then use it in a totally different context in a verse.  I'm not saying that I'm right about this; I just don't want anyone to throw this verse out by only factoring in the South Africa/wonderstone link. I think that reading this line as a reference to a trait that all the images share (i.e. jewel, flower, time, country) is very interesting to think about from the author's standpoint.

This is written in furtherance of something catherwood mentioned recently on the Image 10 thread.  I suggested Milwaukee, and a link to V8 because of the Mitchell connection.  She commented on Grand Staircase in Lake Park. Part 1:  From the images I can find, the Grand Staircase has a straight section followed by two opposing semicircles.  From above, the curved sections look like two C's facing each other.  CC = 200, hence "grand 200". Part 2:  Any sort of ordinary steps would have a rise of about 7 inches each.  92 steps of 7 inches apiece adds up to a vertical rise of about 54 feet.  The topo map doesn't actually show the staircase, but does show the bank that it climbs, and it has 6 closely spaced contour lines.  These are on 10 foot intervals, and therefore show an elevation change of about 50 feet.  Pretty close. Part 3:  There's a bridge (...Below the bridge...) about 100 yards from the top of the stairs.  The path (road?) underneath the bridge runs almost directly southeast, and appears on the map to be unpaved (...over rock and soil...).  500 feet (100 paces) southeast down this road gets you out of the woods, where you can notice or count individual trees (...first young birch...). Part 4:  The park is just a few blocks from the Mitchell Hall that Egbert proposed a long time ago. I need to figure out how to attach images, don't I? Any thoughts?

Yesterday I spoke to a lady with Lake Park. She said there are Birch trees in the park and numerous plaques etc. and a man on a horse statue.

Boy, it is a shame that this monument is located in Washington Park on the opposite side of the city from Lake Park: hxxp://jamrent.50megs.com/finn/statue.htm If you click on the picture of Steuben's statue, you'll see two of the statue's plaques containing letters of correspondence between Steuben and George Washington.  Even though the first letter was written while Steuben was in the United States at the time, this is exactly the kind of thing I had envisioned for this verse regarding the "letter from the country" line.  If this verse truly does match Image 10, then I believe the wonderstone's hearth would be Germany and may be found near a statue or monument with similar traits.

A friend of mine in Wisconsin is not very far from Milwaukee.  She is willing to make a trip for us and take some pictures (and count all those steps!), but she is not free to do so until early next week.

Pictures really help us out--that would be great Cat. Thank her for all of us.

"At a distance IN TIME / From three who lived there" Are there any graves (monumental burials) in the park? "At a distance IN SPACE / From woman with harpsichord / Silently playing" Is there such a statue or picture or frieze near, but not there?

I cant wait to see your friends pix cat... they sure do help a lot, by either confirming ideas we have or discounting them.  Keep us posted Cat....  could we be nearing the 3rd find? I really like the "grand 200" (CC) idea. .................

This is a very remote possibility, but we may want to find out if that Steuben statue has always been where it is now.  I have found that city improvements (especially in St. Louis) include relocation of statues. Mr. Steuben, where were you on the night of April 1, 1982? Uuuhh.  Riding my horse, Your Honor.

Aha...I see what you mean now "Ascend the 92 steps(...pause for effect...) After climbing the grand 200" Now, if that is the case (which I must say makes a lot of sense) why or what is the 200?  Let us suppose that there are actually 92 steps leading up the staircase......are there 92 steps leading down the other side? (stairway is in 2 arched sections). Or are there more steps on one side than the other?  92+92 = quite close to 200 yes indeed, i like it a lot...let's find this one Varin

fox wrote:: why or what is the 200? I'm still fond of the interpretation that it is 200 in Roman numerals, or CC, and that the two curved sets of stairs form the Grand C-and-"backwards C".  These kind of clues are more poetic and descriptive than literal.  I wouldn't look to be counting 200 units of anything here.

have we checked to verify that's it not an address or something of that sorts (200 grand street, for instance?) wilhouse

It probably is just a coincidence but since the question of an address came up, City Hall is depicted in the picture and the address of City Hall is.....wait for it.....200. And sometimes these old buildings are referred to Grand old structures, “Grand 200”. But in the context of the verse “Ascend the 92 steps, After climbing the grand 200” I don’t think it works. As for the Lake Park address, its 3233 E. Kenwood. And as for the picture posted by Fox of the Stadium at Lake Park, it is not there and has been gone long before this.

oh man, too much of a coincidence to blow off! wilhouse

Cat..ah yes, I forgot about the CC or 200.  Thanks for the reminder, that does indeed make a lot of sense. Designer..thanks for the update, I knew the images on the postcards were old but I didnt know the stadium was gone. Sure enough hxxp://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=122453 [glow=red,2,300]200[/glow] E. Wells St.  It is a Grand old structure isnt it?  It also stood as the tallest building in Milwaukee for 78 years & was also added to the National Register of Historic Places. also listed on the National Register of Historic Places: our friends...... hxxp://www.answers.com/topic/chicago-water-tower hxxp://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=121783 hxxp://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/travel/ca/ca40.htm (P1?) hxxp://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/travel/charleston/sum.htm Seems so obvious & I'm not even sure if this was mentioned in the past (think it must have been but....).  Could this be a valid line to follow in our search?

I'm not in Milwaukee, but I'm not so sure the stadium's totally gone. Check out the aerial views of the park on terraserver-usa.com (and maybe Globexplorer.com), and you can see the stadium shape in the lawn just South of the base of the Staircase, along the roadway. Pine

I'm not really sure where you are looking on the map...having hard time finding both the staircase and the stadium.  If the stadium is there..could it be the 200 or........... 200 Wells (adress) or.......... roman numeral 200 CC ? maybe the stadium doesnt even matter...but I'm quite sure the casque is somewhere in Milwaukee.

Try this address for the Staircase.  It's just East of the obvious building.  The two "C" shapes are fairly obvious.  The stadium is South of there.  The narrow white strip immediately north of the Staircase is the bridge over a big gulley.  The roadway along the bottom of the ravine runs Southeast, putting you back at the bottom of the Staircase. Hope it works. hxxp://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T ... ee%7cWI%7c Pine

Okay, I'm taking a break from Verse 1 for a bit. This picture is amazing, and your discovery of the Milwaukee rebus was clever. I have some initial thoughts. I agree with dan39decoy when he noted (6/21/04) that 'Wonderstone' refers to the jewel whose key casque is hidden. He added that 'Wonderstone's hearth' probably refers to the country of the jewel's origin (Germany, we think?). Fox (5/30/04) noted, "It just doesn't seem right. It tells you to climb (ascend) 92 steps after climbing 200 (more steps?) and then you reach the culvert." I think they directions can be read either way. For example, "Ascend the 92 steps after you climb the grand 200" or "Ascend the 92 steps. Then, after you climb the grand 200...". These two lines could also easily refer to the same set of steps, as long as "200" isn't interpreted literally as a number (it's okay if it is interpreted as CC). The latter interpretation is more in agreement with the steps in Lake Park, in which the "Grand Staircase" ('grand 200') consists of some of those 92/95 steps (after I typed that, I found that Pine Tree came to the same conclusion just last month, 5/6/05). To my mind, BP would have written '292' rather than splitting it up into 92 and 200 if both numbers referred to steps. One of them is a play on words, pun, or visual reference. The fact that there is a sundial (compass?) near the top of the steps was the clincher for me. I badly want to be able to say I recognize the girl's hairline as the shoreline of Milwaukee, but I'm afraid I see no resemblance:

In the quiet of my soul I Feel the beating of the World." --a Community Shabbat Welcome www.humanisticjews.org/Shabbat_files/co ... ome_2.html

Very nice find Johann ! It seems to come from the candle lighting ceremony...... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Candle Lighting Reader 3:                  What is more fragile than the Sabbath flame? And yet what is more enduring? A single breath can extinguish its glow, Yet no storm has ever blown out its light. All:                          May the lighting of the Shabbat candies remind us That we are the light bearers, and to bear our light well we must share our light freely. All (softly):                In the quiet of my soul I Feel    the beating of the World. It is not other than I nor am I other than it. As wave is to ocean so am I to the World and to the source that sustains it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So it appears there will probably be a jewish temple/church nearby or possibly within a jewish garden or section of the park a la Greek Cultural Gardens in Cleveland.

1.  So we begin with Mitchell Hall, a 3-story building on the corner of Downer and Kenwood. 2.  We walk towards Lake Park, passing the Lake Park Synagogue at 3207 N Hackett Avenue. 3.  We would need to cross Summit, Shepard, and Marietta.  Could these 3 names be related in some way to "three who lived there"? Drew

I should add that Congregation Emanu-el B'ne Jeshurun was located at 2419 E Kenwood Blvd from 1927 until 1998.  From there you could likely see the 3-story Mitchell Hall at the corner of Kenwood and Downer, and then head further east on Kenwood to reach Lake Park. Drew

-Woman with harpsichord could be referring to Edna Frida Pietsch..Milwaukee's famous female composer. hxxp://members.tripod.com/~berceuse/index2.html -...silently playing could be referring to her grave located in the Wauwatosa Cemetery: hxxp://128.121.240.77/data/us/wi/milwau ... .htm  which is quite far from Lake Park or Mitchell Hall.

This is probably nothing more than a very strange coincidence, but in 1962, Alfred Bader began operating an art gallery in Milwaukee's Astor Hotel, and the current gallery shows a painting called "Woman Playing Harpsichord" by Wijbrand Hendricks.  Could the painting have been there in the early 80s?  Intriguing, eh? But wait, there's more.  From the July 14, 2005 issue of the Wisconsin Jewish Chronicle:  "Bader and his second wife, Isabel, live in the same home that he purchased in 1957 for $27,500. Bader originally selected the location because it was close to Congregation Emanu-El B’ne Jeshurun, where he taught Sunday school for more than 30 years." So where is this home?  An address search shows it at 2961 N Shephard Avenue.  In other words, between Mitchell Hall and Lake Park. Was the painting in Bader's home in the early 1980's? Drew

Ahhh, quite intriguing.  Like it a lot.  You cant get much more quiet while playing a harpsichord than a painting. Sounds very promising

Based upon some things posted in the "What is the treasure?" thread regarding Verse 8 and Dallas' Fair Park, I went there this morning and took some pictures.  They can be viewed here: hxxp://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.j ... nn_speed=1 It was a beautiful, albeit cold, morning in Dallas.  I took about 50 pics of the park, starting at the entrance by the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial, and ending up at the far end of the lagoon.  I didn't go up to the live stock barns, the midway (not open), or over to the Starplex amphitheater (it's newer than the hunt).  I went up and down the esplanade, the Hall of State, African American Museum, the Music Hall, the Museum of Natural History, the Science Building, the Grand Ave entrance, the lagoon, and a few other places.  Unfortunately, I didn't see any statues, murals, reliefs, etc. of a woman with a harpsichord. I also didn't see a compass or compass rose anywhere.  I didn't find this until after the fact, but there is a compass rose graphic on the Dallas Museum of Natural History web site.  I didn't walk the entire perimeter of the building, but I didn't see a compass rose anywhere. Mitchell and Grand are nice ties between Dallas and this verse.  And the African American Museum at Fair Park might be a good fit for the theme of immigration. Here a couple of obstacles to overcome to strengthen the case for this verse tying to Dallas, and Fair Park in particular:  (1) I didin't see anything that could have 92 steps, much less 200 more (if that's what the "grand 200" are), with the exception of the Cotton Bowl stadium (inside) and it is closed except for games and concerts.  The whole area is very flat.  (2) I didn't see any bridges with a culvert.  The only bridge I saw was a very small one at one end of the lagoon. Hope this information helps.  If you think I missed something, or would like me to get more detail of a particular spot, let me know and I'll see about making another trip over there.

HI Jambone.  First, thanks so much for the wonderful pictures.  They are really lovely - you must have a good camera! Well, I agree that outside of the Mitchell 3-story building on Commerce Street and Grand Avenue, nothing else seems to fit, except possibly the African-American Museum.  It's hard to tell without seeing the place -but these pictures are really good.  Guess it's back to the drawing board for this one.  Thanks again.

No problem.  I have only ever been there for football games, concerts, and the State Fair, so it was fun to walk around while the place was empty.  I'm glad you like the pics.  FWIW, I used an inexpensive Sony digital camera.  Don't give up!

Just an observation: There are so many double entendre's in verse 8, including "stories," "beating," "nature," "compass," and "letter," that it is extremely difficult to devine the intended meaning.  That of course is the point, but does anyone on this board know for sure which meaning each of these double entendre's represents?  With a definative meaning, it might be easier to solve the the riddle and locate the casque. Note that I said MIGHT be easier!

Unknown: "...does anyone on this board know for sure which meaning each of these double entendre's represents?" 'fraid not. But in general I try to imagine non-obvious meanings. These are riddles, after all. For example, "Cast in copper" may not refer to a copper statue, but rather to a pool where one might toss in pennies. Who knows? On the other hand, it is difficult to imagine how "Pass the compass and reach / The foot of the culvert" could mean anything other than the obvious.

My point regarding these double meaning words is that , for instance, "compass" could mean an instrument that draws circles, or it could be an instrument that gives a proper magnetic heading.  In attempting to figure out what type of location the riddle is describing as a whole, the idea of a "compass" takes on two very different meanings if you are trying to infer some type of theme.  For instance "beating" can mean a ship beating out to sea, a ship from the age of sail.  Combined with a magnetic compass, the place being described in the riddle might have a nautical theme.  Using the other (and not the only other) meaning of "compass" the nauticle theme would not necessarily work as well, ( though it might because a compass that draws circles might also be used in navigation at sea). But an instrument such as a compass (to draw circles) might have a mathematical theme, or  might mean something else entirely.   Thus I believe you have to keep an open mind when searching the internet and using these  double meaning words as a basis for solving the riddle.   What type of "compass" will you be passing before you get to the culvert?

Another thing to keep in mind is that these were designed and hidden over twenty some odd years ago. Up until his demise, BP didn't feel the need to give out any solves and from what has been found, the locations have been fairly static. When I read and free associate, I try and think what was around a LONG time ago.... turn of the centruy stuff or an event which has a static location that has had  along distinguished history. In this regard, permanence tends to hid in plain sight. Even Blockbuster wasn't around in 1982

forest_blight wrote:: For example, "Cast in copper" may not refer to a copper statue, but rather to a pool where one might toss in pennies. Who knows? This was my first impression, cast in copper as meaning made with copper didn't come to me until after I looked at the verse for a while.  So, step on nature (walk on grass?) cast in copper (pitch a penny) etc.  I was wondering if the beating of the world could mean waves on a beach.  After all, waves pounding the shore is a common expression.  Also, there is a third compass, (first being a magnetic pointer and the second being a device to draw circles) which is an indicator of north on a map.  If you do walk along the shore to the grand staircase, you would then have to ascend the stairs, rather than go down them. So, start at the hall, walk to the beach, walk to the stairs, in a nutshell.  Ascend the stairs into the park, then the clues get too detailed for internet map checking.  And keep in mind that he did this without the internet so if it seems too easy now, it's just the way time has affected us.  Of course I could be 100% wrong - I haven't been there to look yet and it's been years since I've been to Milwaukee. But don't go looking for anything until I can get there to scope things out.  You guys don't really want this casque anyway.

Still in the land of beer and bratwurst.  Checked out building that was once the Emanuel B'ne Jeshurun at 2419 E. Kenwood.  Blank fascade no inscriptions/engravings, except the Star of David at the top.  It is now UWM's The Helene Zelazo Center for the Performing Arts in the Peck School of the Arts.  It is directly across the street from Mitchell Hall, and I mean directly.  Walked around campus and the neighboorhood again.  Took Kenwood down through Lincoln Memorial Drive.  The Grand Stairway is closed during winter.  You can drive to the top.  Followed the path to the North Point Lighthouse.  The Lighthouse splits two ravines and you pass it when you cross the double bridge (The Lion Bridges).  You can get down into both of the ravines easily from this area.  The nearest ravine runs more south and the other ravine runs SE.  Both ravines run down hill to Lincoln Memorial Drive toward the lake.  Counting 100 paces off from under either of the Lion Bridges S to SE (and its soil and rock paths) takes you out of the wooded area to a grass lawn abuting Lincoln Memorial Drive.  Actually one of my mark offs put me into the street.  There is a good bit of erosion in this area also.  No birch trees, just as Varin had reported.  No yellow, brown, river, paper white or otherwise anything remotely looking like a birch.  No signs on any of the trees in the area either.  Although there was one at the trail head marked with a " G irl Scout" sign partially imbedded in the tree, so it had been there a while.  This created alot of discussion about what constituted a culvert "foot".  I felt it was the furthest area down stream (down hill). Plus going up hill toward the trail head would move us NW, not SE.  Checked out Mitchell Domes, nice park--but I've given up my pet theory about this being the starting place.  The Wisconsin Institute of Torah Study is quite off the path, more north on Lake Park Drive away from the park, and again no confirmers in this area.    The way this has shaped up--The Lake Park theory works with the verse the best--but finding the casque will be extremely difficult.  This is what fits with V8,  that we have:  Mitchell Hall (three stories) , the old Emanual B'ne Jeshurun (if that is the beating of the world reference) across the street from Mitdhell Hall, The Grand Staircase (well over a mile or more away from the first two), North Point Lighthouse (compass), the ravines (culvert) and the direction they descend (SE), the Lion Bridges (beneath the bridge).  It does work.  But there is no clear confirmers and fine tuning where to dig will be a guess.  I am here one more day--anyone with any thoughts??

Unknown: Both ravines run down hill to Lincoln Memorial Drive toward the lake ... anyone with any thoughts?? I had a thought, perhaps not worth much. cast in copper could be a reference to Lincoln Memorial Drive, since Lincoln was "cast in copper" more than any other subject in history - he's on the cent. Prior to 1982, cents were 95% copper. That would put you at the base of the 92 steps so that ascend makes, uh... cents. Another thought. The treasure is buried at the southern foot of the " G " tree, according to the verse. Is there no way the tree with the Girl Scout sign could be the one? Hope you're taking pictures, stercox! Edit : Also, be on the lookout for things with the same design as the collar in P10.

forest_blight wrote:: I had a thought, perhaps not worth much. cast in copper could be a reference to Lincoln Memorial Drive, since Lincoln was "cast in copper" more than any other subject in history - he's on the cent. That's pretty good.  Now, I'm new at this but don't some of the other verses and pictures reference Lincoln or streets named Lincoln?

What I've come to realize is the collar design seems to be a pretty common architectual design piece on buildings in general, I've taken pictures of some as they pop up on our travels here.  Have been taking pictures, but going down there again today and will take more, trying to get different perspectives. I have a decent map of Lake Park also.  I'll try to get stuff posted when I get back home.  The ravine runs down hill SE, the Girl Scout tree (not a birch) is at the very top, the bridge is near the bottom.  Maybe we need to pass the Compass a different way and below the bridge is a description of the culvert and has nothing to do with starting or being below the bridge.  I'll check out trying to get down into the ravine on the back side of the Lighthouse today.  Also, I was thinking that maybe we don't even need to be down in the ravine and we are to stay at the top of the ravine, the verse just says reach the culvert below the bridge, maybe giving a description of the next thing that you will pass getting to the dig site.  Will check out more of the top side today.  I think FB's thought about Lincoln and cast in copper is brilliant.  The Lincoln Memorial Drive borders the park.  Even if it nevers proves to be right--still brilliant.  There are some historic photographs in the Lake Park Bistro we're going to look at those today as well.  They have a Friends of Lake Park group and I have been on their website--we may be able to put them to work on our behalf to keep testing out theories.  Just a thought.    FB--Talk your lfriend into coming--Milwaukee is a great city, the architecture in these old neighborhoods is worth the trip. Not to mention the microbreweries.

Unknown: Now, I'm new at this but don't some of the other verses and pictures reference Lincoln or streets named Lincoln? Indeed. V12 referred to a sitting statue of Lincoln in Chicago.

Met with Dr. Alfred Bader this morning at the Astor Hotel.  Very nice gentleman, lots of history about the temple Emanuel and about the Woman Playing Harpsichord.  Interestingly, he handed me a printout from an e mail from KP UNC to him, which he found very mysterious.  I about LOL when I saw it.  And then explained the purpose of the inquiry.  Here is what he told me:  He just acquired the painting in 2004 from a man in Coppenhagen and resold it.  It was not in Milwaukee, in 1982.  Nor has it ever in the Emanuel temple or his home.  Dead end.  The beating of the world could refer to the Emanuel temple still.  The temple is across Kenwood from Mitchell Hall, thus "bookending" Kenwood, like a trail head.  My theory is that much of the first part has to do with moving you down the 5 or so blocks toward Lake Park.  The names of the streets are named after people who lived here back during the construction of the park.  Spent an hour at a local book store researching the history of the streets.  The only one I cannot connect to a past resident is Marietta.  And Marietta may be our woman with harpsichord in some way.  I think Blight may have it--Lincoln Memorial cast in copper on the back side of a penny represents Lincoln Memorial Drive which is the border of Lake Park.  Ascend the 92 steps--THERE ARE 92 STEPS--a perfect count-- IF you only count the steps connected directly to the staircase (the walls that define it).  There is a clear demarcation of where the staircase begins and ends.  This does not include any steps approaching the staircase.  The stairs are the original steps, nothing added or deleted, this is confirmed by a member of the Friends of Lake Park.

The compass has to be North Point Lighthouse.  There is nothing else in or close to the park that is like a compass.  Here is my theory about the ravines.  There are foot paths down in the ravines which take you down hill SE toward Lincoln Memorial Drive moving under the Lion Bridges.  One ravine has been nick named the "Girl Scout Ravine", this from the general manager of the Lake Park Bistro at the top of the Grand Staircase.  There is a metal marker embedded in a tree at the top of the hill (GS ravine trail head)  it reads  Milwaukee County Park Systems-- G irl Scout Trail.  I believe there may have been another marker like this on a tree at the other end of the Girl Scout ravine.  Standing under the Bridge in the first ravine, 100 paces takes you out of the ravine into a flattened grassy area.  There are 5 solid tall trees in this area (one at the end of the trail) and they standout.  Moving west from the 1st ravine and that first tree  toward the 2nd ravine (the Girl Scout trail) you pass three big trees to get to the 5th tree, the biggest monster tree, which if a Girl Scout sign was attached to a tree at the end (like one was at the trail head), it would be this tree.  Is it buried under there??--did some minor digging--very rooty and very open to the public.  Nothing found.  Of course--its all specularion.  Would take some excavation work, the tree of course is 24 years older and bigger than it was.  I think the trees are poplar or cottonwood, but not birch.  Oddly enough--I did find a penny tail side (Lincoln Memorial side) up minted in------you got it---1982.

Suggested areas for further research: Milwaukee County Park Systems Girl Scout Trail markers What is 200?  (total stair count does not approach 200 at all, it about 50 ish shy) Birch trees that don't look like birch trees--could BP just not know his trees?  (Birch = From the Old German "Birka" meaning "Bright") Who is the Harpsichord Woman? Where is that darn casque??

Two questions, why are you all so sure of "G" being the letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth?  I know Germany is believed to go along with this verse but a letter could also be an e, r, m, a, n, or y as well.  There are no palms in Wisconson so it can't be buried under a giant W.  (sorry, I couldn't resist)  And could a proud, tall 5th be a musical reference?  Alcohol reference? Also, I thought the grand staircase had two semi-circles at the bottom, CC = 200 (forest_blight's post brought this up). If the staircase is a sure bet, couldn't we just skip how we got there?  I mean, those clues may have been helpful in 82 when there was no internet, but now is a different story.

forest_blight wrote:: Indeed. V12 referred to a sitting statue of Lincoln in Chicago. I read all the forums in one sitting so I may be confused, but didn't one picture have a profile of Lincoln and didn't the San Francisco park border on a Lincoln street?  I'd hate to have to read all these forums again....

Unknown: Interestingly, he handed me a printout from an e mail from KP UNC to him, which he found very mysterious.  I about LOL when I saw it.  And then explained the purpose of the inquiry. Unknown: The names of the streets are named after people who lived here back during the construction of the park. Spent an hour at a local book store researching the history of the streets. The only one I cannot connect to a past resident is Marietta. And Marietta may be our woman with harpsichord in some way. Unknown: There are 5 solid tall trees in this area (one at the end of the trail) and they standout.  Moving west from the 1st ravine and that first tree  toward the 2nd ravine (the Girl Scout trail) you pass three big trees to get to the 5th tree, the biggest monster tree, which if a Girl Scout sign was attached to a tree at the end (like one was at the trail head), it would be this tree.  Is it buried under there?? Unknown: What is 200?  (total stair count does not approach 200 at all, it about 50 ish shy) Unknown: Who is the Harpsichord Woman? Unknown: Where is that darn casque?? Unknown: Two questions, why are you all so sure of "G" being the letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth?  I know Germany is believed to go along with this verse but a letter could also be an e, r, m, a, n, or y as well.  There are no palms in Wisconson so it can't be buried under a giant W.  (sorry, I couldn't resist)  And could a proud, tall 5th be a musical reference?  Alcohol reference? stercox, you are amazing! I plead guilty for the KP UNC e-mail; I thought it sounded like a great lead so I sent Bader Fine Arts an inquiry through their web page. Didn't realize it would go to the man himself, but I am glad it was good for a laugh. Sorry to hear the harpsichord painting is a dead end, though. Can we assume that the three who lived there are Downer, Hackett, and Shepard? There is a Summit Ave. between Hackett and Shepard, but it evidently wasn't named after a person. I will do what I can to find out who Marietta was. The information was available to BP in 1982, so it shouldn't be impossible to find today. And it is extremely exciting to finally get the 92 steps confirmed! I'd bet a lot that the casque is under that very tree, stercox! Good job. And it may not matter that it isn't a birch. The verse reads: Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three {three what? birches or just trees?} , staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth {again, fifth what? if "tree," then we're good} At its southern foot The treasure waits. Nothing here says the tree we are looking for is actually a birch. To respond to Starthinker's question, I'm pretty sure the proud, tall fifth refers to a tree, since we encounter a "first" and then "three" more, and we haven't changed nouns yet. Starthinker is right - the "grand 200" must be the CC-shaped section of stairs. I'm all over it. I'll report back. Under that darn tree! Get a shovel! How long will you be in town? That's a good point. I assumed "G" because it is the first letter of Germany, which surely is the wonderstone's hearth. I am going there in May, and uh boy, what a great trip it would be if I could dig... with permission . Or even just take pictures while somebody else digs. I wonder if there are any other forum-readers local to Milwaukee? If not, stercox, could you use your capital to prepare them to expect me in May, and work to get permission for supervised digging?

A chat with a UWM librarian found nothing on Marietta. But I spoke on the phone with some librarians from the Milwaukee Co. Historical Society. They consulted the book Milwaukee Streets: The Stories Behind Their Names and found that Marietta Ave. was named in 1891 by Clarence Shepard. The author does not know why it was named "Marietta," though. I have the book on order through interlibrary loan. For a small fee the library will do more research, but I have also contacted the Dept. of City Development's historic preservation folks; perhaps they will be able to help. More later.

Sounds great stercox.  Pictures coming?  Also, is there a way to identify on a map exactly which ravine has the Girl Scout trail? I've got a good contact in the Milwaukee County Parks system, who has been briefed on the hunt since about 2004.  He's given me directions on who to talk to and how to acquire permission to dig in the park.  The contact info isn't really the kind of thing I should post publicly, but I'll PM you (stercox and forest). Pine

How's the ground out there?  I had planned a trip the weekend of the 1st of April but didn't really plan on any digging.  I figured there would still be snow on the ground.  It was more a sort of fact-finding mission.  I may really get fired up, though, if the ground is thawed a bit.  I have to find a Wisconson park ranger uniform so I won't look suspicious. By the way I think there was a Marietta indian tribe somewhere, but I could be wrong.  I may be thinking of Marinette.

Just figured out that Girl Scout Ravine is the one to the south of the big parking lots. (edit:  I was wrong on the original post.  Based this belief off of a Google search where a local birdwatching club had misidentified the ravine)

I don't necessarily agree that the 5th is a tree. at it's southern foot does not sound tree like. More like a wall or sign. You need to get some photos of what that area looked like in 82.  I am sure they have historical photos.  I personally don't believe it will be under a tree, but that's just me.  Trees are hard to dig around.  and all BP had was a 6 ft shovel. you guys are doing a great job! wilhouse

I looked at the same Street names book at the local bookstore.  The three who lived there are Judge Jason Downer, Edward P. Hackett, and Clarence Sheppard.  Sheppard owned most of the property bordered by Hartford, Downer, Kenwood down to the shoreline.  I'm back in Columbus Ohio now and sadly must return to work.  Got Pine's PM sounds like a great contact.(sorry I didn't get back to you--Norton killed my internet access at home).  I think digging is in someone's near future, would like to be a part of it, it would be a good group effort.  It will be a tough dig and I suspect that there will be plenty of pieces of the casque enough for everyone.    I thought about it all the way home--only the first tree needed to be a birch, the rest do not, I agree.  I collected some leaf litter under the monster tree and will have one of a local horticulturist tell me if this is a birch or not (just for academics--HA!).  I think it's a tree that the casque is buried by instead of a wall or something else.  There's nothing else around.  And I think its out on that grassy area, out of the ravine.  BP wouldn't picked a tree in the ravine, too much change, erosion, water, it wouldn't last--and going west in the ravine is up a steep slope.  But those trees--they aren't going anywhere.  What about 200 acres??  May it is the CC...    Does Summit have anything to do with harpsichords??  I will try to post the pictures this weekend--no promises--but will try.  Fun trip.

I made a map to help us all orient ourselves. It's too big to post here in one piece, but the whole thing can be downloaded here: hxxp://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/map_with_text.jpg Beware that your browser will probably try to compress the image to fit on your monitor. Holding your pointer over the image for a few seconds should make an "expansion" icon appear. Here are the important bits: [glow=red,2,300](NOTE: SUPERSEDED BY NEWER MAPS)[/glow] Does this agree with everyone's ideas about what is where, and how to get there? I couldn't pick out *precisely* where the important trees are. Can you help with that, stercox?

You guys are doing a great job!  It's wonderful to finally see the layout of the area.  Some questions/points: 1.  The verse says, "Southeast over rock and soil, to the first young birch."  If it is the FIRST young birch, that implies that there are other birch trees.  The interpretation that only the first tree has to be birch, would fit a line such as, "to the first, a young birch," or something like that.  So, I think there are other birch trees (although they may not be there anymore). 2.  The verse seems to take you on a walking path up 92 steps, then the grand 200, then the compass, and then the culvert, bridge, and treasure.  If the lighthouse is the compass, that puts you past the girlscout ravine (unless I am misunderstanding the path that Stercox took), so the treasure would be way past the ravine.  I am not sure where the bridge is in the photo above, but it seems that "below the bridge" is where you start walking 100 paces southeast.  That seems to take you out of the photo above.  Stercox, did you walk that far from under the bridge?

Some quick notes and questions: Egbert - I don't believe that "92 steps" and "grand 200" are sequential.  I believe they're the same thing.  To paraphrase, it says to me "Ascend the 92 steps.  After climbing the Grand Staircase,...." I'm not convinced that the lighthouse is our compass, for the reason Egbert states.  I'd like to find something like a compass between the top of the stairs and the ravine/bridge.  Sundial, monument, word "compass" on a monument.....? I know the northern ravine (Ravine Road) is crossed by a bridge.  Is Girl Scout Ravine bridged? Pine

The distance one must walk to the lighthouse bothers me. If there is some other interpretation for "compass" that would put us nearer the CC, perhaps some actual birch trees could be located?

Forgive me for pointing this out but that whole path takes a southwest direction.  At what point are you going southeast?  Or did the red dotted line mark where you left the trail and headed into the wooded area?  Was that a southeast direction? Also, just out of curiosity, what is that building at the top of the stairs?

Regarding the mysterious harpsichord woman, does anyone have any ideas for search strategies? I have tried to google--Milwaukee woman harpsichord painting (or statue)--and, alas, I come up with thousands and thousands of hits.  Where is she?

Here are lots of pictures that Varin took when she was walking the trail.  There are some very good pictures of the bridge, and culverts, along with old photographs of how things used to look.  I think it is worth checking these out again --- I just wish I could get a better orientation of where things are (the bridges, the culverts, etc.).  One of the old photos seems to show a beautiful Lions Bridge next to the lighthouse.  I thought they weren't near each other? hxxp://www.varin.org/vgallery/v/places/MilwBike/

On the harpsichord, I've been assuming it is a painting, or perhaps a street named after a known harpsichordist (Marietta?). Perhaps a tombstone or statue (silently playing?). And what does "at a distance in space" refer to? How big a distance? And from where? The next line of the verse takes us to Lake Park ("nature"), so whoever she is, she must be between campus and the park.

Some brief notes and (possible) answers.... topo map hxxp://www.terraserver-usa.com/image.as ... ukee%7c%7c aerial hxxp://www.terraserver-usa.com/image.as ... ukee%7c%7c Starthinker -- both ravines under discussion (Girl Scout to the S and Ravine Road to the N) run generally SE.  So does one that begins near the lighthouse and runs under a bridge.  The topo maps confirm this.  And the building at the top of the stairs is apparently called The Pavillion. Johann and FB -- my current idea on the harpsichord woman is to go after the name of a street or building nearby.  As an example, there is a painting called Interior with Woman Playing Harpsichord by Emanuel deWitte.  Maybe there's a deWitte Street, or maybe it's the synagogue Emanuel B'ne Jeshurun.  I think "distance in space" just means "nearby" this name. Egbert -- There's a significant bridge directly north of the Staircase, over Ravine Road.  There's also apparently one just SE of the lighthouse.  I think this is the Lion's Bridge. My biggest hang-up right now is the word "compass"...... Pine

Egbert - The Lion's bridge is near the lighthouse. I think it must be one due south of the lighthouse on our Terraserver map. Varin's files contain a postcard that shows it from that angle. As for the compass... I realize this is a recent photo, but in it the flowers in the CC are arranged in such a way as to resemble a compass. I wonder what it looked like in 1982... In any case, one would already have had to pass the CC before encountering the compass, so maybe this doesn't matter.

Nice overhead shots!  Need to relabel it, though.  The "Girl Scout"ravine is not the ravine you have labeled. Moving from the stairs back toward the lighthouse you will come across three different ravines-- they ALL run SE.  The park is bending into the narrower end of the park in the area of the Lion Bridge and lighthouse.  The first ravine is that just south of the parking lot, it has no significant bridges, some trail bridges but that is all, it is of no consequence (you have labeled it as the Girl Scout ravine, its not).  Focus on the Lighthouse and the Lion Bridge.  The configuration looks like this: Lincoln Memorial Drive Stairs                                      1  2    3    4    5* .                                  t    t    t    t      T . .                E                                  E . .          N                                  N .      -------------Lion Bridge------------------- .          I                                  I . .          V                                  V . .        A            LH                A . .          R                                  R .....>                                        GS marker 1                                  2 Lake Drive The Lion bridge passes over both ravines.  The LightHouse splits them.  I have written the word ravine to indicate the downhill direction of the ravines as they spill out at the bottom toward Lincoln Memorial Drive.  The inclincation is to pass the Compass by going over the bridge.  But that is the wrong direction.  You actually travel parallel to ravine 1 next to the golf course, passing the compass on your way to get to the trail head of ravine 1 near Lake Drive (expand your overhead to include this area).  You need to take the trail TO REACH THE FOOT OF THE CULVERT BELOW THE BRIDGE.  You will come out of ravine 1 (after 100 paces) into a flat grassy area between the ravines and Linconl Memorial Drive.  You travel west (right) toward ravine 2 (this is the Girl Scout trail).  The Girl Scout marker I found for this trail is at the trail head of Ravine 2.  Our beloved trees are just out side the ravines, between ravine 1 and 2.  Your only other option to get to the foot of the culvert is to slide down the ravine slope and it is very steep.  I think he wants us to take the trail starting at the head (at Lake Drive) and moving to the foot (at Lincoln Memorial Dr).  It meets every requirement.  All in favor??

Also, if you take the trail head, you will pass the compass again BEFORE reaching the foot of the culvert below the bridge.  I will try to get my scanner up and running and get pictures loaded and labeled and try to put a nice portfolio together for us soon.  In the overheads--Look for the bridge they lie right over the ravines--You may be able to see the trees as grey dots.  Look at a girl scout symbol and tell me if you think it reminds you of someone??

One last thing.  The building at the top of the Grand Staircase is The Lake Park Bistro--French Country cuisine and a Milwaukee 4 star--great place for dinner BTW.

Don't get fooled by the overhead views--the distances are not that great.  You can easily see the Lighthouse from the area of the stairs, it still barely clears the tree line in winter , but you can see it.  There are very few other structures in the this area.  There is the General Wolcott statue on your way if you take the path to cross the Lion Bridge.  Varin took some nice shots of this.  There is nothing about the statue mentioned in the verse and it is a good solid landmark.  Why is it not used in the verse??  I asked myself this very question and my answer was because you needed to pass the compass a different way.  Don't take the bridge.  Take the Golf course way.  And  if you do---Wolcott would not be on the route (you wouldn't see it and why its not mentioned in the verse)  that takes you to the ravine trail heads near Lake Drive.  And that's where we found the Girl Scout marker, and it started falling into place.  This whole verse--if we're right-- is a nice 1-2 mile hike from Mitchell to tree.

stercox wrote:: Nice overhead shots!  Need to relabel it, though.  The "Girl Scout"ravine is not the ravine you have labeled. Moving from the stairs back toward the lighthouse you will come across three different ravines-- they ALL run SE.  The park is bending into the narrower end of the park in the area of the Lion Bridge and lighthouse.  The first ravine is that just south of the parking lot, it has no significant bridges, some trail bridges but that is all, it is of no consequence (you have labeled it as the Girl Scout ravine, its not).  Focus on the Lighthouse and the Lion Bridge.  The configuration looks like this: Lincoln Memorial Drive Stairs                                       1   2     3     4     5* .                                  t    t     t     t      T . .                 E                                  E . .          N                                  N .       -------------Lion Bridge------------------- .          I                                   I . .          V                                  V . .         A             LH                 A . .          R                                  R .....>                                        GS marker 1                                   2 Lake Drive The Lion bridge passes over both ravines.  The LightHouse splits them.  I have written the word ravine to indicate the downhill direction of the ravines as they spill out at the bottom toward Lincoln Memorial Drive.  The inclincation is to pass the Compass by going over the bridge.  But that is the wrong direction.  You actually travel parallel to ravine 1 next to the golf course, passing the compass on your way to get to the trail head of ravine 1 near Lake Drive (expand your overhead to include this area).  You need to take the trail TO REACH THE FOOT OF THE CULVERT BELOW THE BRIDGE.  You will come out of ravine 1 (after 100 paces) into a flat grassy area between the ravines and Linconl Memorial Drive.  You travel west (right) toward ravine 2 (this is the Girl Scout trail).  The Girl Scout marker I found for this trail is at the trail head of Ravine 2.  Our beloved trees are just out side the ravines, between ravine 1 and 2.  Your only other option to get to the foot of the culvert is to slide down the ravine slope and it is very steep.  I think he wants us to take the trail starting at the head (at Lake Drive) and moving to the foot (at Lincoln Memorial Dr).  It meets every requirement.  All in favor?? Stercox, let's see if I am following you on this: 1.  In your diagram above, we follow the dotted line from the stairs to where the "1" and the "R" is. 2.  Travel along "1 R A V I N E", which is a southeast direction. 3.  The "E" at the end of "1RAVINE" is the foot of the culvert below the bridge. Now, here is where I have questions (assuming I am correct on the path so far).  Let's take a look at the verse: After climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Apparently, once you are at "the foot of the culvert below the bridge," you then need to "walk 100 paces southeast over rock and soil to the first young birch." 1.  If you now have to walk southeast, doesn't that take you out of your diagram?  I think it goes towards the highway.  Are there any trees between the foot of the culvert and the highway? 2.  Are you walking over both rock and soil? 3.  Isn't the girlscout marker northwest (i.e., back up Ravine2)? 4.  Are none of those 5 trees birch?

Unknown: I believe there may have been another marker like this on a tree at the other end of the Girl Scout ravine Great job stercox, Looking forward to your pictures.  Yesterday I had a hang-up about the interpretation of the lighthouse as the compass.  In my haste I had missed the fact that it is called the North Point Lighthouse.  I think you're right. Some questions:  Is is reasonable that by "pass the compass" , he meant to stay on the road and continue over the first Lion Bridge and pass the lighthouse to the second bridge?  Then get down into the culvert below this (the second, southernmost) bridge , where your GS marker is.  Then walk 100 paces SE down Ravine #2, and you get right to your row of 5 trees, but this time the first one reached is the one you have labelled as #5.  You pass the next 3 , moving roughly NE and staying west of Lincoln, and then get to the fifth -- the one you have as #1.  This is, I think, the one about which you said: If this marker did exist, it could of course be the letter (G???) that we're looking for, and if this is reasonable, that could mean that the casque is at the southern foot of tree #1. Not trying to be difficult.  Just working out theory stuff. Pine

Unknown: In my haste I had missed the fact that it is called the North Point Lighthouse. I can't believe I didn't get that. Sometimes I wonder why I bother...

This area is very hard to conceptualize--I can see it in  3D because I've been there.  I'll try.  Coming from the stairs you see the lighthouse off in the distance to your left.  If you walk in that direction you see the Lion Bridge crossing the ravines, but you don't go over the bridge.  Instead you travel parallel to Ravine 1 toward Lake Drive.  You find the trail head with stairs and path leading down into ravine 1.  You are now traveling SE through the ravine (the whole ravine is SE).  You are descending into the base of ravine 1, and traveling now toward the Lake.  The Northpoint Lighthouse is now to your right.  The Lion Bridge is in front of you.  When you reach the area under the bridge you continue SE and downhill 100 paces.  At 100 paces you are now outside the ravine in a grassy apron that stretches before you about 50 feet to Lincoln Memorial Drive.  Just as you come out of the ravine, in this grassy area,  there is a prominent tree right there.  That would be the first young birch.  Directly to your right (west) are 4 other prominent trees.  You would pass the trees 2,3, and 4 (pass three)  to reach Tree number 5 (the proud tall fifth).  This is the biggest of the trees in this copse.  It is the tree found just outside ravine 2 (the Girl Scout ravine).  It would be the tree a girl scout marker would be on if ravine 2's trail was marked on both ends by such markers.  There are no other trees in this grassy area that could be mistaken for the 5 trees. My friend thinks that maybe these could be birches, I showed her the leaves I took.  They are very mature trees and the bark may reflect the age of the trees and look different than typical birch bark.  Blight--Does this give you enough info to recreate the area in topigraphical view??

"At a distance in space" This to me is similar to the phrase in verse two "near this site" Meaning it is note worthy to verification of the site, but not necessary in using it as a landmark to guide by. Anyway, to find the lady silently playing, I would reccommend looking at 700 North Water Street. A little ways away from the Park, but in a direct straight line to Ravine Road. This is the home to the Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra. Known for their music and their ballets, they also have an extensive art musuem which I would suspect would over flow onto a courtyard of sorts. The real art gallery in this city has under gone major renvoations recently. I have seen no mention of a pianist on what I have searched, but if it would be anywhere in this area, it would be here.  And the longevity of the space would satisfy the hunts general criteria.

Unknown: Blight--Does this give you enough info to recreate the area in topigraphical view?? I'm on it. May take me a few hours, but keep checking back. Go Bucks!

Okay, here we go. Stercox, do these match your recollection? The full map: hxxp://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/map_with_text2.gif

Wonderstones hearth? hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/brick_arch_bridge.asp

Was wondering where you were, fox. That site has some great pictures of the Lion Bridges.

"Remember, remember the fifth of November, gunpowder, treason and plot, " these are the first two lines of a rhyme for Guy Fawkes Day aka The Gunpowder Plot Now....back to: such a lovely statue of Erastus B. Wolcott sitting tall atop his proud horse named Gunpowder. anything around Gunpowder's southern foot?

There you go, tossing wrenches in our pretty little theories again, Fox.

not really...still in the same general (no pun intended) vacinity.... i just stopped off at the statue instead of continuing into the trees.

ummm...check this out. from the url above....it says when talking about the stolen eagles: "They were removed by vandals and only the inscriptions and the logos on its pillars remain. It has been necessary to replace the original bronze letters fastened to the pedestal with an engraved version of the dedication: " necessary to replace the bronze LETTERS put there by Francis Packer.  upon doing a little digging on this sculptor I found: "reveal that Francis Herman Packer sculpted this “portrait statue;” working in a studio in New York. Packer was a native of Munich, Germany." you will see a letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth. sidenote......Herman.... hehehe.  Are all of the puzzles interlocked somehow?

wow, good to see some progress here!  I haven't checked in lately because I don't live near Milwaukee anymore I'll still try to help out from here

well, it does appear that the casque is by a tree. I had ruled out some locations in the zoo because I found that hard to deal with. I guess I'll have more work to do with the bulldozer... wilhouse

Please be merciful if this has been mentioned before.  What about the other possible meanings of the noun "compass"?  a circumference or boundary; an area, extent, scope; the range of tones of a voice or musical instrument (Oxford Dictionary)

Some maps from stercox. These clear things up a bit, and include corrections to my aerial view:

sorry, but i have to ask: How you know it's the 5th tree going NW and not the 5th tree going SE?  Couldn't you pass the "north point compass" from either ravine?  And isn't the 2nd ravine more southeast?  If you don't find the treasure at the NW tree, consider digging under the SE tree in the row of five as well, just in case.

Stercox marked the 5th tree going SW - the map is rotated 90 degrees clockwise. But your point is well-taken. It could be either tree depending on which ravine you start from. Not having been there in person, it makes more sense to me to Pass the compass by simply traversing the Lion Bridge before then going down Ravine 2, which has the GS marker at one end.

johann wrote:: the range of tones of a voice or musical instrument (Oxford Dictionary) interesting idea Johann....that would tie into the aforementioned 5th as related to musical notes. leaning towards the trees right now but if we come up empty there...music may need to be researched.

Yeah. Harpsichord music.

If you follow the verse, "Pass three, staying west", then you would be going down the 1st ravine. Building a house and moving has kept me away from this but have still been following along. Will be interesting to see if you can dig in this area along Lincoln Mem. Dr.

Unknown: Unknown: Unknown: Unknown: Unknown: Unknown: Unknown: Unknown: Unknown: Unknown: Stercox marked the 5th tree going SW - the map is rotated 90 degrees clockwise. But your point is well-taken. It could be either tree depending on which ravine you start from. "Pass three, staying west", then you would be going down the 1st ravine. Don't get too hung up on the directions.  The map was more for conceptualization of the area.   I had a compass with me when I was down in the ravines and in this area.  It matched up SE and W.  I sketched in the trees on the fly and they may not be completely oriented correctly, but they are close.  Even the ravines that are on the original map are a little off, they do not run that far out toward LM Drive.  And if I recall correctly, ravine 1 does run more south than east (still SE) putting the copse of trees W. How you know it's the 5th tree going NW and not the 5th tree going SE? It could be either tree depending on which ravine you start from. Out of ravine 2, there are no further trees in a westerly direction, just bushes and brush.  There is only one tree that stands at the end of ravine 2 and it is the oldest and biggest of the trees.  The tree outside ravine 1 is the youngest and smallest of the trees.  Coming out of the ravine 1 allows you to find 5 trees to the west, the first being the youngest and the last being the oldest (and the one that would intuitively hold the Girl Scout Trail marker on it if a marker existed at this end).  This area is very unique in that it does not offer too much in the way of other options other than what it is.  Two trails, 5 trees, only out of ravine 1 will you find trees west, only the tree at the end of the five (same one as the end of Girl Scout trail or ravine 2) fits the description of proud tall 5th and would have GS marker on it. it makes more sense to me to Pass the compass by simply traversing the Lion Bridge before then going down Ravine 2, which has the GS marker at one end. You can get down into the bottom of either ravine from anypoint along them, bypassing the trail path created for getting people down to the bottom of the ravines,  by scaling down a rugged, very steep slope to the bottom.  Or you can take the nice safe trail stairs and path at the head of the ravine trails up near Lake Drive as intended, a route that allows you to pass the compass and reach the foot of the culvert below the bridge .    If you were to scale down slope into ravine 1 near the Bridge, to get below the bridge, you will not pass the compass.  If you traverse the bridge and scale down into ravine 2 from there to get below the bridge, you will pass the compass, but after your 100 paces SE you will not find any trees west.  If you follow the verse, you will not need to go down into ravine 2 (GS ravine) at all. Working on pix.  Looking them over last night--I'll need to do a lot of labeling--to keep people oriented.  In all my descriptions, I will use the verbiage that I have been using and that match the Lake Park Map that Blight so kindly posted for me.

My apologies -- i hadn't realized that the map image might not be oriented with north at the top.  Excellent analysis all 'round.

I am uncomfortable with the line As you walk the beating of the world referring to the Emanuel B'ne Jeshurun on Kenwood Blvd. The only piece of evidence we have for this is a phrase from an obscure candle-lighting ceremony on the website of a Humanistic Jewish congregation that does not have a permanent address (they meet in one of two schools in Westport, CT). Who knows when the welcome was written? E-mail to the address listed on the site bounces, and I haven't worked up the courage to call them at the listed number. Clever references to Herman Melville and Robert Louis Stevenson I can understand, but if this is a literary reference, it seems incredibly obscure. Too obscure, and this is evidently not a well-known welcome or it would appear on more than one website. hxxp://www.humanisticjews.org/Shabbat_files/community_shabbat_welcome_2.htm Another point: In the welcome, one doesn't "walk" the beating of the world, one "feels" it, the latter makes more sense if it is a metaphor for harmony with the world: In the quiet of my soul I Feel the beating of the World. It is not other than I nor am I other than it. As wave is to ocean so am I to the World and to the source that sustains it. Reactions?

I will be in Milwaukee May 8, 9, or 10. I would prefer the 9 but there is some flex there. Starthinker - were you going there April 1? Wanna delay your visit a few weeks and make this a group dig?? Pine Tree has a friend at Milwaukee County Parks we can call on to oversee things and "get permission to dig out." The stars are aligning for unearthing a 3rd casque, I think. Let's do this right.

Forest, let  me go out on the proverbial limb here. BP was Jewish.  He passed away while going to services.  If there was a Jewish facility there in 1982, at this location, he would have had a hard time not stopping in and at least looking around.  If there was some quote or plaque or something he could use as a clue, he would have done so. The ceremony you quoted, though specific to that site, had elements that I have seen many times in candle lighting ceremonies.  I believe this to be a positive clue. wilhouse (shalom!)

Pictures are ready.  Hopefully this works.  Enjoy. hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/stercox

stercox, your photographs are terrific! I'm surprised they tolerated you spray-painting all those steps Good work spotting the collar designs. I still think the blob looks more like a 17-year locust than an archway, but nice thought. Now I am worrying about the trees (someone has to). I thought birch bark was smooth and white. These trees' bark is ropey and corded. And none of the birch leaves I found online are as squat as the ones you collected, nor do they have teeth quite as regular. Are you sure both the seeds and the leaves go with our trees? It looks more like cottonwood to me: hxxp://www.handsontheland.org/sitedata/panh/lgformat/pode_bark.jpg hxxp://www.gpnc.org/cottonwood.htm

forest_blight wrote:: ...I still think the blob looks more like a 17-year locust than an archway... You could be right..if those trees are locust trees.  Locust trees do have those pods.

I was linking "locust" with Locust St., which terminates at Lake Park.

I would say we seem to have this one pretty much nailed down after looking at stercox's pix. I only have one little problem........ I would say I was %100 sure of the solve's location until one of the last few pix of the tall proud 5th.  During my virtual tour, I had always assumed the 5 trees were in the ravine...secluded w/in the interior of the park.  It bothers me a little bit that the tall proud 5th is right along the main street....hard to bury something there w/out being seen by passing motorists.  How busy is that street? other than that....I would say DIG!  take along a metal prodding rod to push into the soil to see if you hit anything foreign.  If so, dig my friend...DIG and join Sir Egg ( and soon to be Sir House) w/ a casque find. also, i wouldnt be too worried about the Birch question.  In doing a google image search, I hit many types of birch (all of which do not have smooth white bark)...ie... hxxp://www.isleoflismore.com/florafauna ... -birch.jpg and, your leaf looks almost exactly like this birch leaf... hxxp://www.british-trees.com/guide/imag ... f_scan.jpg Good luck..

Unknown: Are you sure both the seeds and the leaves go with our trees? It looks more like cottonwood to me: Unknown: It bothers me a little bit that the tall proud 5th is right along the main street....hard to bury something there w/out being seen by passing motorists.  How busy is that street? No I'm not sure.  But most of the dead leaves in the area looked like this.  I thought that they looked like cottonwood also and not birch.  I did not see any birches, save two, in the park and they were white paper birches.  One really young birch by itself on Ravine Drive just right (north) of the Grand Stairway and the other one on the golf course.  That's it--I did not see any down in the ravines or in other areas of the park.  I've thought of three things: (1)  I think FB mentioned this before--Maybe only the first tree is a birch as described in the verse, and the others are not as they are not really identified as birches in the verse and we've just been interpreting it that way.  Which I will concede that what I have labeled as the first young [birch] is not really that tree.  It is possible that another tree existed in this copse that was a birch, but is no longer there and I have the first tree in the pix labeled wrong. (2) The word birch may be a synonym for the word tree .  We may be taking this all to literal and we should be thinking more poetically.  Where lighthouse is compass, and beating of the world is temple, and cast in copper is Lincoln memorial Dr... (3) BP didn't know his trees that well. Yeah, me too-- but its actually not as busy as you think during certain hours, especially in the evening hours (especially in winter--HA!).  Plus once you know where it is, you don't have to take the long route,  there is easy off street parking right there.  I believe it could be done without much interuption.  Being by a tree, I doubt that its buried that deep (I hope its not).  My treasure hunting buddy and I both paced it off from under the bridge--she being shorter than me--I don't care who takes the 100 paces, that grassy area is where you end up and those are the only trees around.  It met the verse head on and is as close as we could imagine the physical surrounding could match the verse.  Even the 100 paces did not leave you guessing.  It could be wrong, but it feels right--its worth putting a shovel in it, I think. The three things that we could not fit with the verse were..  Harpsichord lady, what is 200, and the birches.

The 200, I thought we established, was the CC-shape to part of the staircase. But I would kill to know what BP was talking about re the harpsichord.

A footnote on the beating of the world - The congregation with the website containing the welcome got back to me: "Sorry -- no one knows exactly where any of the services on the website originated -- they have evolved over time."

forest_blight wrote:: I am uncomfortable with the line As you walk the beating of the world referring to the Emanuel B'ne Jeshurun on Kenwood Blvd. In my mind this is referring to the shoreline, as waves pound the beach. I'm about 1000 miles from home right now and was going to stop in Milwaukee on my way back but that's out now.  If no one finds anything I may go in a couple of months.  If anyone does do any digging make sure you put things back so they don't ban us all together.  Is this area a place where you can dig unnoticed or do you plan on getting permission?  The thing with asking for permission is that they may say no!  Anyway, good luck!

If I am fortunate enough to have an opportunity to dig this May, I will seek permission first. As for beating of the world referring to waves, that would put the verse out of order - the shore isn't encountered until after we get to Lincoln Memorial Drive.

If the schedule holds as indicated above, you guys will be extracting the 'fourth' casque.

Wow, you've got it Stercox.  I am very happy for you! 1.  If you are going to dig, you may want to get some digging help, and/or wait for the ground to get softer.  You are going to probably run into some root problems, so bring something to cut through them.  Take more than 1 shovel, in case 1 breaks. 2.  Contact the newspaper ahead of time, so no one will even think of chasing you away while there are reporters around.  If you can tell me when you are going, I will contact the guy who did my story --- he may know what to do.  BTW, if you go in May, that will coincidentally be the 2-year anniversary of finding the one in Cleveland. 3.  I would love to see a shot of the 5th tree from the other side --- it looks like the "foot" that sticks out is the same as the "foot" of the tree that is part of the woman's cape.  Good job finding the collar!  You are probably right about the first tree missing --- the one you found does not seem to be part of the others.  Coincidentally, I also could not figure out "birch" from the Cleveland verse (free speech, couplet, birch) --- I guess those trees can die off easily.

Stercox, Your pictures are great.  Thanks for posting them with the notes.  This is especially helpful in the ravines.  I had no idea that the footpath down into ravine 1 was so far behind the lighthouse. My current thinking on "birch" is that it may just be "tree" executed with a little metaphor/poetic license.  Ordinarily I'm quite the literalist, but reading "birch" as "tree" seems reasonable. Pine Birch

Just completed the virtual tour and all I can say is HOW did you not get down on your hands and knees at the southern base of that fifth tree and dig up the ground with your bare hands??!! I was Sir Egg's partner in Cleveland and I must tell you walking through this masterfully done virtual tour brings me back two years ago to one of the most exciting days I can remember.  For me, the pattern on the Pabst Theater facade across from City Hall that match up with the ladies collar is so incredibly right on that it made the hair on the back of my neck stand up take notice while simultaneously battleing a strong case of goosebumps.  It is like seeing that wall at the Greek Gardens in Cleveland all over again for the first time and KNOWING that you have found the markers putting you in the right place.  Interestingly, when Sir Egg and I met with BP following the find in Cleveland, he mentioned that he was surprised it took so long for the Cleveland treasure to be found as he always felt it was one of the "easier ones to find" and one of the first that he buried.  Comparitively, I think that was very true, for once we found the wall in the center of the Greek Cultural Gardens, the "walk ten paces" part of the treasure hunt was really very minimal, aside from getting our proper bearings as to reference point for walking left to right. etc.  In Cleveland it was 7 or so steps and 10 paces over and whalah (sp?) the casque was buried just a foot and a half below the surface.  Looks like BP decided to make the directions to the actual site much more complicated by the time he got to Milwaukee and thus a much more siginificant degree of difficulty to locating the specific spot.  But kudos to you Sterecox and anyone else who has helped you, as there is little doubt that you have done it.  My advice - get back out there TODAY and dig til your arms are tired.  I know that just solving the puzzle seems satisfying, but it pales in comparison to actually prodding the ground with a metal pole and feeling the pole strike something foreign to the soil and then digging ever so gently so as not to shatter the translucent box and unearthing the dirt covered casque that has sat untouched for so many years.  The person who solves it should be the person who unearths it - it is a tremendous rush and the culmination of all your hard work.  A moment to remember for all time, truly.  Don't waste this chance.  Call in sick to work.  Get to Home Depot and grab two shovels, a long metal pole for probing and a trusted friend (another perspective and an additional set of digging arms and hands are always helpful) and DIG man DIG. Funny, when I got to the end of the virtual tour, I was confident the final shot would have been Sterecox holding the casque.  I was SO crazed to see just another nice shot of the compass and then some leaf samples.  Sterecox, PLEASE get out to that birch and find the darn thing so that everybody can live vicariously through you and feel good about all the work that has gone into solving yet another puzzle.  As a funny aside, Sir Egg just said to me on the phone that he feels like Mark McGuire and I like Sammy Sosa, both about to be passed by Barry Bonds.  Don't know how or why he chosed to "inject" these guys names into the equation, but I think I get his reference.  It was exciting to surpass the Chicago finders (the Roger Marises in this analogy, I suppose) and be the title holders for a brief period.  But all records are made to be broken and all finds are just next in line til the next great treasure hunter comes along and lays claim to the next casque.  The heartiest of congratulations on your efforts and enjoy the ride. Finally, as to the "birch" issue, BP was not able to recall what the reference meant when we met with him and discussed the Cleveland puzzle.  I think it far more likely that the term birch was meant generically, as it has been suggested, since it was at least twice used in differnet verses with no foundation other than the reference to trees.  And for what it is worth, an overhead view of the site, as posted in the final virtual tour slide strikes me as eerily similar to an overhead from the Cleveland Cultural Gardens site.  In both, there is a road that curves around the area in very similar fashions.  Hear it is Lincoln.  In Cleveland I believe it was MLK drive.  Two important Americans, both tragically assassinated.  I can already hear the minds of the conspiracy theorists churning.  To this end, can someone check to see if there is a Kennedy Boulevard running around the perimeter of one of the other suspected treasure sites.  Who knows, it might be worth looking into ...  Then again, it might just be another "dead end."  (please excuse the pun - I couldn't resist).  Anyway, go get it and post some pix of your success ASAP!!!

Trohn wrote:: If the schedule holds as indicated above, you guys will be extracting the 'fourth' casque. Did I miss something?  I thought this would be the third.

I just need to schedule my dig once the supervisor is back on site. The date should be close to the end of April. I don't have a lovely virtual tour but my google earth pin points the markers.  I also do not have the elements of weather or erosin to deal with as the site is well protected and supervised. I am not down playing the great work in nailing Milwaukee just keeping the forum updated.

I think what Trohn means is if there is a wait until May for the Milwaukee casque to be unearthed, he feels that he will have already dug up another casque between now and then.  Good luck Trohn.....and Good luck Stercox........ cant wait to say.... 4 down...8 to go!

Ooops, my post was beaten by Trohn himself Due tell Mr. T, which site are you preparing to dig?  Which V/P pairing?

V/2 P/9.

ahhh..... And He's Off.......! Good Luck Trohn.

Fays delight. Tron

Unknown: you may want to get some digging help First-- thanks to everyone for the support.  I worked from information that you guys have freely shared on this board--I feel a part of that group effort.  And a group effort it should be... Blight are you still thinking May 9th??  That's a tuesday--which makes it a really tough schedule for me--but it could be done.  Whoever wants to show up--it'd be a blast--If we don't find it, we can go cry in a beer and go home.  Hopefully, we'll be celebrating.  I am nervous about asking permission to dig--because they could say "no" and I've been-there-done-that down in St. Augustine, and its very frustrating and unfulfilling--I'm still waiting for a "yes" response down there.  We could try Pine Birch's contact without giving the date of the dig, unless he agrees.  That way--if the contact declines, we can cloak-and-dagger it if we have too.  Varin should be there if she can be--I hope so.  I think that the growth of that tree and the harsh winters have crunched up that plexiglass box and ceramic casque--I'm guessing its in pieces--probably enough to go around for who ever helps. Pine how accomodating would your park guys be--do you think?

Unknown: The book I have is Milwaukee Streets: The Stories Behind Their Names by Carl Beahr (1995). I believe Fox offered up Edna Frida Pietsch (a famous German female composer born in Milwaukee)  a long time ago as our possible harpsichord woman.  Fox thought it may be a reference to her grave site.  Upon further research, Ms. Pietsch was born in 1894 and died in July 1982.  There was a very extensive article about her in the Milwaukee Sentinel on March 31, 1978 (which I can't veiw on line--its archived).  Although a renowned composer, she lived her entire life in Milwaukee in her family's original home where she also gave Piano lessons to children .  I tried to EM the webmaster from the EFP website homepage--but they have not responded about where that home is located.  It could be in those neighborhoods.  Harpsichord may be a synonym for piano (although I believe she did also compose for harpsichord, as well as many other instruments).  There was a book that I researched while in Milwaukee by a female author (different from the book above), at the local book store, that pictured all the homes in this historic district, with the original home owner names. I was not looking for her name at that time, just the street names.  We may need to check that out while we're down there, I might try contacting the historical society before then--just to see if Fox was right.  The only concern I have is EFP died probably after The Secret had gone to print (although officially published in November 1982).  Possible???

Unknown: I tried to EM the webmaster from the EFP website homepage--but they have not responded about where that home is located. It could be in those neighborhoods. Definitely possible - thanks for reminding us about fox's idea. I sent a query to UWM Libraries - maybe they can look it up and tell us. I'm also trying to obtain her obituary through interlibrary loan, and that may indicate where her grave is located. Morbid, maybe, but useful.

forest_blight wrote:: It's official - On Monday May 8, stercox, myself, and our respective treasure-hunting buddies will be digging in Lake Park in Milwaukee. I think that's a great day to dig! Saturday, May 8, 2004 --- Siskel and I dug up the Cleveland casque.

And its the Monday following the Kentucky Derby.

Well, I had to postpone my trip which looks like it worked out for the best.  Good luck you guys, I think it's fitting that it turned into a group effort.  Don't forget the great Milwaukee earthquake of 1990 moved around a lot of earth and may have broken up the casque. (For me, the entire month is April Fool's Day.)

Unknown: I believe Fox offered up Edna Frida Pietsch (a famous German female composer born in Milwaukee)  a long time ago as our possible harpsichord woman I heard back from the Milwaukee Historical Society, Edna Frida Pietsch lived at 3522 W. Kilbourne Avenue (which is quite a distance away from the area of interest and not in the North Point Historical district.  Its nearly downtown.  I think this may be a dead end also.  Unless FB gets conflicting information from his sources.

I stopped by our campus library this morning and got this: ...which confirms stercox's find of Ms. Pietsch's home address. Wauwatosa Cemetery is in the western part of Milwaukee, just west of 76th St. So I'm afraid Ms. Pietsch is not our harpsichordist unless At a distance in space is interpreted very liberally.

forest_blight wrote:: Wauwatosa Cemetery is in the western part of Milwaukee, just west of 76th St. So I'm afraid Ms. Pietsch is not our harpsichordist unless At a distance in space is interpreted very liberally. Well, she died after the book was published, so it would have to be a VERY liberal interpretation.

Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge It is a stretch to equate culvert with one of the ravines. When is the last time you described a ravine as a culvert? Culverts are man-made, enclosed ditches intended to carry water, whereas ravines are natural landscape features. On the other hand, my dictionary defines "culvert" as (definition 3) "bridge," so it could just be a reference to the Lion Bridge itself. So, in the same way that 92 steps and grand 200 are references to the same set of stairs, culvert and bridge could refer to the same landmark (imagine a period after culvert just as we do after steps ). On the other other hand... I was browsing eBay for images of Lake Park today (there are dozens) and ran across something interesting. Below are three pictures of Lake Park from before the monumental landfill project that created Lincoln Memorial Drive. I can't tell if they are based on photographs or are just very good artist's renderings, but notice that the third one has a "culvert-shaped" thing on the bluff over our favorite ravine. The mystery object - if it is a culvert - would empty out very close to where our trees are today. Could this be our "culvert"? stercox, were the remnants of this thing (whatever it is) visible during your visit? More to the point, would it have been there in 1982? (1905 date) (1912 postmark) (1909 postmark)

On second thought, maybe it's just a rip in the postcard + wishful thinking. It's hard to tell from a JPG image. Seems like an awfully strange place for a culvert.

Maybe this will help --

I've come across the same post card in my research and the same defect shows up on mine (although it is not on your 1912 postcard)--I think that is a printing defect and not really part of the picture.  But it matters not.  The bluffs in that area no longer exist and they have not for a long long time--they were filled in with land fill to create the beach on the other side of Lincoln Memorial Drive at the shore of Lake Michigan.  Its all flattened out now.  I don't find it a stretch to call a down hill running ravine that has a drain at the bottom of it a culvert.  My dictionary defines culvert as "a drain crossing under a road or railroad".  There is a large drain at the bottom and it does cross under the Lion Bridge which used to be the major road through the park until the land fill helped create Lincoln Memorial Drive, then it was destined to become a foot bridge.  Have faith, my friend.

Just 1 week away from your dig!  I am very excited for all of you who are going.  Please post something as soon as you can.  I will be eagerly standing by my computer!  Good luck!  And no matter what, have a good time

Trust me, the event will be duly chronicled. It may be a few days before it gets the full FB treatment, though, since I will be very busy in Chicago for a week after the dig. There will not be any press, by the way, at the park's request.

forest_blight wrote:: There will not be any press, by the way, at the park's request. That doesnt mean that you cant take your own pix, write your own story & submit it to the local paper does it?

Heh heh. I suppose not, but the park is concerned that media exposure might spawn a rash of midnight hole-diggers in Milwaukee parks. Besides, most of those who would care already read this forum, so they will see pictures aplenty whether we succeed or fail.

When you guys dig this up, it (publicity) will all take care of itself somehow.  At the very least, we should be able to find out if someone has the authority to diclose the secret solves for this casque as well as all the others.  Good luck, and good night!

I hate to tell you all this but I went to Milwaukee this weekend and dug up the casque. JUST KIDDING! Good luck!  I wish I could go but I just couldn't swing it.  I'm only 4 hours away, too.  Hope you all find it!

The day before the big dig!!!  Are we getting excited yet???  May you have the best of luck!

Thanks Sandpiper! I'm pretty excited. We arrived in Chicago a couple of hours ago. I'll take my computer and camera with us to Mill+Walk+Key tomorrow, and hopefully we will find an opportunity to post a picture or two to the forum as early as tomorrow afternoon. Grant Park is also on the list. Still not convinced that M and B has been properly solved...

Thanks for all the finger-crossing and positive energy out there from the Q4T Braintrust!  I am in Milwaukee right now, real time, using the hotel's internet service.  I've already scoped out the park tonight.  That tree is bigger than I remember and looking prouder by the minute.  Dig time less than 12 hours away!!  I don't think I'll sleep too much tonight!!! We will try to post something tomorrow as soon as possible. Stay tuned.......

writing as a charter member of the "frequent digger's club", best of luck. wilhouse

I wonder how the growth of the tree is going to alter the digging location as per the clues given were twenty years ago. As has been documented, six inches either way mean a lot.

C'mon.  It's 1:30 here and no 10 page report with 300 pictures yet?  What's the hold up?  Is it pouring there as it is here?

I am sure they are doing their all.....

Thanks for the good wishes, folks, but we dug and and dug (and dug) with no luck. Just roots, pop-tops, and stones. but I made three great new friends. We'll post pictures later.

Just want to let you know, we're all counting on you!

forest_blight wrote:: Thanks for the good wishes, folks, but we dug and and dug (and dug) with no luck. Just roots, pop-tops, and stones. but I made three great new friends. We'll post pictures later. Thanks alot, I had a tenner on you guys.

forest_blight wrote:: Thanks for the good wishes, folks, but we dug and and dug (and dug) with no luck. Just roots, pop-tops, and stones. but I made three great new friends. We'll post pictures later. Oh what a shame! I really feel for you. Hope you dug all around that darn tree (hope you got the correct tree too)!? Looking at all the clues and ground work that's been done, I was convinced you were right. Hope you get another chance to dig some more...you MUST be close. Ade

I thought it would be there for sure. We met at 9:00 at the base of the 92 steps and walked around the park for a bit, then met up with a park employee. We went to the casque site (?), got out the shovels stercox brought (and there were many!) and begain removing turf, which was duly set aside for replacement later. Then it was dig dig dig! We encountered some pretty hefty roots, several large stones, broken glass, and about 20 pop-tops. We cleared an area of maybe 5 or 6 square yards around the southern foot of the proud, tall fifth to a depth of 2 feet. Yes, it's true that the book says it could go deeper, but the soil was very dense and heavily populated by large roots. It wasn't looking promising. And unfortunately I think we used our one and only "dig a hole in Lake Park free" card; several years may have to pass before anyone seeks permission to dig again, but hopefully by that point we will have stronger arguments for a spot and more casque discoveries to use as leverage. A few passersby rubbernecked; some even came up and asked what we were doing. We just told them we were looking for a flowerpot and that was enough to scare them away.

Upsides: - General Agreement that you were near the right spot - Have a contact in the Park System - Stuck to that 'no media' clause - Have very little chance that the area will be covered in concrete before the next time you give it a go. - Can always blame the Harsichord Lady. (she kept silent)

I am sorry you did not find it YET, but I hope you had a lot of fun trying --- the journey can be more fun than the destination. For how long did you guys dig?  Did you prod around the other sides of the tree, just in case?  Give us the details!

There were five of us digging for about 4-5 hours.  I did bring a probe type thingy--but you couldn't go very far down without hitting something .  My muscles are telling me this morning that we moved a lot of dirt yesterday!  Although disappointing outcome--still had fun--the anticipation and excitement, meeting Forest and Pine were treasure enough for this day.  I still believe that its in that area,  but maybe birch really means birch.  The Park Manager, declared our trees cottonwood.  Had to come, had to try, it was well worth the trip. Sir Egg and Siskel, We remarked during out efforts when we were starting to get the unsettling feeling that we were not going to find it--that it shows you just how difficult this hunt really is AND what a remarkable accomplishment Cleveland really was. So, 2 Down 10 to GO!!  Keep working everybody!

Can not wait to see the photos. I just reviewed the logic that went into this location with both the verse and the image, and I can not see any reason that it is not at that tree.  The 'southern foot' matches up with the image and the jewel placement. And with the ground as hard as it was, there is no likelyhood that someone would have dug it up recently. Not that it would be an initial comfort, but I hope someone can spot something in the photos you'll post. "Carpe Dig'um" - Seize the Dirt.

Trohn wrote:: Not that it would be an initial comfort, but I hope someone can spot something in the photos you'll post. "Carpe Dig'um" - Seize the Dirt. Yeah, like a guy standing in the background holding the casque.

How unfortunate.  I too believe this MUST be very near the site.  Too many things fit.  I cant wait for the pictures...they just might hold the key. Carpe Dig'um.....now that is just too darn funny Trohn.  Looks like we Secret searchers now have a new Motto.

Currently sitting in Caffe Baci, directly across Michigan Ave. from the Chicago casque site. I feel like I am on a pilgrimage (more on that later). Here are some (but by no means all) of our Milwaukee pictures, to give you a flavor. I have more, and stercox took a few as well. First is the tree, before we did anything: After de-turfing: After digging for a few hours: ...and after calling it quits (this time!) and filling in the hole and starting a new one on the southwest side:

Wow, the patience you guys must of had.  I can't see a lone man burying something in ground like that while trying to not attract attention to himself.  Although you didn't acheive the intended outcome, well done, all of you.

whenever I see guys digging around trees like this I get a funny feeling in the pit of my stomach.  I look at your pictures and think, maybe it's a couple of inches deeper, or a foot to the left. I can completely sympathize with you all.  It's there, we know it. wilhouse

I know what you mean wilhouse.  That was in the back of our minds all day.  We mitigated it by getting good consensus on the likely limits of the dig zone, breaking it into "zones" (without using that word) according to proximity to the tree and location of major roots, and exhausting each zone.  We tended to stop when we penetrated a consistent layer of gravel and clay that apparently underlay the site at about 24"-30" or so. Forest already did the short version (met, met park manager, dug, undug).  When stercox post pictures later, I think they'll probably add more descriptive detail, and I'll add my impressions later. Great to meet everybody. Pine

Geez!  I hope you don't have a major let-down after this.  I certainly appreciate what you've all done and I can't see how it wasn't right there for you.  Reading back, I still think you were dead on.  Anyone ever find these guys from Chicago with their casque?  I hope they don't have it.

You'd think if anyone found it they would be all over the internet bragging about it.  On the outside chance they don't use the internet you'd think they would have at least tried to collect on it.  The site seems to be spot on.  I wonder what the odds are someone saw him bury it and dug it up later to see what it was. I know I wasn't there, but from the descriptions and can't see how it's the wrong spot. Are you sure it wasn't Milwaukee, Arizona?

To continue on a theme.... if it wasn't for the Cleveland find, we'd have thought about other reasons the hole was empty. A question on the path and the verse, why have the treasure hunter, who is obviously in Milwaukee and at Lake Park, get onto Lincoln Ave., trace a curcuitous route through the park, and end up back down a ways just off of Lincoln Ave??? Are any of the verse identifiers (Pavillion, Stairs, Girl Scouts, Lighthouse, Bridge, Culvert) present in the Milwaukee image?? We see lawn bowling, walking stick, flower, and tree leg.... and a circle (rebus). My main question, is why take the seacher from Lincoln (cast in copper) BACK to Lincoln in other than a straight line.....

So we should reanalyze from "Ascend the 92 after climbing the Grand 200" We have walked aproximately a straightline from Mitchell and then up the most famous structure of the Park. which now leaves us to... a compass and a culvert. Culvert From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search A culvert is a structure used to enclose a flowing body of water. It may be used to allow water to pass underneath a road, railway, or embankment for example. The culvert itself is the conduit through which the flow passes. Culverts can be made of many different materials. Steel and Concrete are the two most common. If lawn bowling is in the image, what is to the right (East) of here ?  (we know what is West)

Featured advertiser: Published July 10, 2004 at 5:24 a.m. Lawn bowling has long tradition at Lake Park By Bobby Tanzilo A fixture in the Lake Park for more than three-quarters of a century, lawn bowling is still going strong in the East Side's best park. Similar to Italy's bocce and France's boules, Lawn Bowling came to Milwaukee in 1919, four years after the American Lawn Bowls Association was founded in Buffalo, N.Y. A group of Scots and English men established the Milwaukee Lawn Bowling Association in Wauwatosa before relocating to Lake Park in 1920, where the group has remained ever since. Sharing their two pitches of well-tended grass is the Lake Park Lawn Bowling League. The game has continually enjoyed popularity in Milwaukee and Lake Park even hosted the sport's National Open Tournament in 1980. If you'd like to give it a whirl, head over to Lake Park every day (except Monday) at 1:15 p.m or Wednesdays at 7 p.m. Players will be pleased to teach you the basics and lend you some equipment (be sure to wear flat-soled shoes). If the relaxing, but very competitive, sport tickles your fancy, you can join one of the league's teams. The Lake Park Lawn Bowling League's pitch and office are located just a few yards northwest of the Lake Park Pavilion. For more information on Lake Park Lawn Bowling call (414) 961-9851. So... as we are at the Pavillion, do we walk past the Lawn Bowling our first encounter with the clues (as was done on MOnday and prior by Varin) or do we orient ourselves and set the Lawn Bowling (in the image) as being NorthWest and look for the jewel South East (right and down) from the Pavillion as is the orientation in the image. Admittingly, the LightHouse is the good candidate for the compass.  Just trying to eliminate all other possiblities..

Nice map and link that I have used now and again. Many bridges (iron, concrete, wooden, etc) but only one thing that could be considered a compass. hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/explore.shtml

Trohn wrote:: but only one thing that could be considered a compass. which is what? the lighthouse?  I must be missing something because I still dont know why everyone is tying in our compass with a lighthouse.  It just doesnt make sense to me. COMPASS: hxxp://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=compass

fox - The name of the lighthouse is "North Point Lighthouse." It is a clever choice by BP to call it a compass, since compasses "point north."

ah, ok...now I finally see the light(house). Thanks for clearing that up FB

So, where are all the pics of the dig?  And the story?  And my popcorn?

"Move along... Keep going... nothing to see here."

They're coming, Eg - patience! Got back into town recently after 8 days away, you know how it is.

Some pictures...

More pictures...

Even more pictures...

Egbert's popcorn...

Ive been working in the dark on this and i am 100% positive we are near the right place, although i really want to focus on the San Fransico hunt, its practicly in my backyard lol.  If u guys have any info leading to the San Fransico verse solving I would greatly appreciate it, and i will keep working on the Mill-walk-key hunt

Unknown: If u guys have any info leading to the San Fransico verse solving I would greatly appreciate it... The Image 1 thread is chock full of goodies: hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=770.0 , as is the wiki we've set up for The Secret : hxxp://thesecret.pbwiki.com/ .

forest_blight wrote:: The Image 1 thread is chock full of goodies: hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=770.0 , as is the wiki we've set up for The Secret : hxxp://thesecret.pbwiki.com/ . Yah I know, I sat down and read the whole thing, and get up to date info on the wiki, but its not going anywhere for a while.  I know that I could find it if I could just get the starting point, Its the first line in the verse that I just cant get.  Thats really what I need to know.

What verse? 8?

No verse 7 the one thats is goes along with the San Francisco.

Verse 7 is connected to New Orleans, Audubon Park.

I've posted some recent photos from Milwaukee at Webshots: hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/quantpsy/

I hesitate to mention this as I know the consensus on verse 8 seems to revolve around lake park etc... Three stories of Mitchell... Margaret Mitchell did write 3 stories. and she is buried in Atlanta. As you walk the beating of the world... A cemetery could represent the beating of the world. At a distance in time from three who lived there... Three civil war generals are buried here (Oakland cemetery).  Also several people lived in the cemetery that are buried here. Nature cast in bronze... Could be bronze sculpture of flowers, trees, animals, etc... I will make a field trip to look for the woman with harpsichord, but there are certainly lots of steps here.  The hill this is built on was where Johnston defended Atlanta during the War of Northern Aggression... Just thought I would mention it...

Oh also, can you play a "c" chord on a harp?  Would this be a harpsichord?

I had found myself going down that path some time ago Jshelnutt.  Pretty sure MM penned more than 3 stories tho....but.... this is how I interpreted it. The Margaret Mitchell House.....all 3 stories of it.  I kept finding myself in Piedmont Park but stalling out there.  Are you in Atlanta?  If so, P Park may be worth reconning and taking some pix of.

Thanks Fox! I am close to Atlanta so next time I go I will stop by and take some pics to post. J

HI all,, If i am following the thread rite the milwaukee connection is still viable .. so i am feeling spry . i am going to go up to wisc. tomarrow...will give a after actions report tomarrow nite.. be safe [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

There are exactly 92 steps from the parking lot up to the building where I work, here in Kansas. I'm just sayin'.

That must be the ONE skyscraper in Kansas. Can you get everyone a Stucky T-shirt? Kansas - the one state where pot grows wild on the side of the highway. (not kidding)

Trohn wrote:: That must be the ONE skyscraper in Kansas. Don't know who or what Stucky is, but I'm sure you'll tell me. Didn't know about the pot, either, but I'm not surpised. This state is certainly unique in many ways I'm starving for a treasure hunt. I may go to St. Louis sometime in the next couple of months.

Forest Blight--  Let us know when you come to St. Louis.  Perhaps we can all gather.

Of course - the trip will be as much to meet the St. Louis contingent as to speculate about where X marks the spot. I'll mention this trip again in a few weeks (assuming you guys don't dig it up by then).

Apparently, there is a twelfth-century story about Alexander the Great finding the Earthly Paradise, where he is given a Wonderstone (English translation of the Latin).

Hi, My first post to this board.  I got this book a few years ago after reading about it in an article in (I think) The New York Review of Books and have been thinking it about it on an off since then so was really happy when I recently found this website.  Most of the ideas I had about the pictures have been talked about along with many that I never considered.  I especially liked the lat/lon idea.  Anyway, I have been reading the posts and something struck me about verse 8.  All of the references to it in the posts talk about A woman or THE woman but that is not what verse says.  It just says WOMAN as in womankind woman definition Women considered as a group; womankind: " Woman feels the invidious distinctions of sex exactly as the black man does those of color " (Elizabeth Cady Stanton). Definition from yourdictionary.com So my idea is that perhaps the line, AT A DISTANCE IN SPACE FROM WOMAN, indicates some kind of monastery in the vicinity or another form of gender segregation. Looking forward to sharing ideas, digger7

digger7 wrote:: Hi, So my idea is that perhaps the line, AT A DISTANCE IN SPACE FROM WOMAN, indicates some kind of monastery in the vicinity or another form of gender segregation. Looking forward to sharing ideas, digger7 Or perhaps 'woman' refers to the original idea of woman: Eve. ck

nice first post digger.... Welcome to the madhouse

ONE STEP AWAY, I'M GOIN' IN JULY!!!!!!!!!! FOR SURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ANYONE WANNA JOIN ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? I LIVE IN EAU CLAIRE WISCONSIN, ABOUT 4 & 1/2 HOURS AWAY. WHICH IS ABOUT 1,000,000,000 PACES OVER ROCK AND SOIL FROM THE THAT FREAKIN LADY WITH THE DANG PIANO THING. -regulus

forest_blight wrote:: Can we assume that the three who lived there are Downer, Hackett, and Shepard? There is a Summit Ave. between Hackett and Shepard, but it evidently wasn't named after a person. I will do what I can to find out who Marietta was. The information was available to BP in 1982, so it shouldn't be impossible to find today. I agree Forest Blight. Downer, Hackett and Shepard are our three . Verse 8 is taking us on a tour from Mitchell Hall to the dig spot and these three streets are step two in the tour. As we walk the beating of the world should be Kenwood Blvd. Kenwood was the premeir audio component manufacturer and very popular in the 70s and 80s. But once we are walking on Kenwood we need a direction and the steps to take to get us to Lake Park. From three who lived there should be Downer, Hackett, and Shepard. After we pass Shepard we find ourselves at Marietta Ave. At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing Marietta Ave. is likely the “ woman, with harsichord ”. “ Marietta Robusti Tintoretto (also known as La Tintoretto) was born in 1560 in Venice. Her father was a famous Venetian artist who ran the Tintoretto studios... Marietta was also a trained singer and harpsichord player, having been privately tutored by Neapolitan Giulio Zacchino. She often played and sang for her father while he worked.” Marietta Robusti's (alias La Tintoretta ,1580 ca.), with a harpsichord and a score to make evident her musical activity. Link to more history on Marietta. I doubt the street is named for Marietta Robusti. This is just a way to provide a reference to Marietta Ave. That gets us to one block from the park and hands off to the next verse line Step on nature . A side note. On Marrieta Ave. a couple blocks to the north of Kenwood Blvd you will find the Hefter Conference Center formally known as the Marietta House. The name was changed in 1989.

Sonoran - your Marietta theory is good. But why would Kenwood be the beating of the world ? And why would he skip Summit?

forest_blight wrote:: Sonoran - your Marietta theory is good. But why would Kenwood be the beating of the world ? And why would he skip Summit? I think the reference here is that Kenwood was a leading worldwide provider in audio ( beating ) and speaker systems in 1982. To date myself, I remember friends bragging in high school when they got a new set of Kenwood speakers. Usually that meant months of saving up from jobs for their cutting edge components. Later, JVC, Pioneer, and others came along to compete. But in 1982 Kenwood had an established history in the American consciousness of being number one. Good question on skipping Summit Ave. Although it is only one street between the three who lived there , I wonder if BP considered adding another verse line to cover Summit; but that line ended up cut from the final version. Wouldn't it be interesting to the see cut verse lines from BP's revision process? Much like deleted scenes in a DVD today we could buy a solution book with deleted verse lines. Something like: At a distance in matter From height below

Unknown: Marietta Ave. is likely the “woman, with harsichord”. “Marietta Robusti Tintoretto (also known as La Tintoretto) was born in 1560 in Venice. Her father was a famous Venetian artist who ran the Tintoretto studios... Marietta was also a trained singer and harpsichord player, having been privately tutored by Neapolitan Giulio Zacchino. She often played and sang for her father while he worked.” Marietta Robusti's (alias La Tintoretta,1580 ca.), with a harpsichord and a score to make evident her musical activity. Link to more history on Marietta. I doubt the street is named for Marietta Robusti. This is just a way to provide a reference to Marietta Ave. Sonoran --Nice research!  Its quite possible. We have never been able to figure this part of the verse out.  From my own research, Marietta St. was named after a relative of Clarence Shepard (I cannot remember if it was his wife or his sister).  Clarence Shepard owned the land from Hartford St to Kenwood St and from Downer St. to water's edge at the Lake at one time.

still haven't received my book. you guys have to go back to the grand staircase at the southern foot.  another word for proud is "grand". all that birch meant was "wood". the roads ...kenwood, linnwood, locust, marietta road, culvert(ravine road). seems to me you just have to walk around the grand staircase. sure hope you all are still looking, all your research is great! good luck!

also want to add: young could be "new" for newberry road. if yo take her cloak as the stair casing, the jewel looks somewhere behind that, 5 feet away from curve of railing?

Hey Slappy -- if you go back through and read the threads completely, you'll see that some people have made great progress to figuring out where the casques are (or were).  It seems that the biggest problem in retrieving the Milwaukee casque is that there are two really convincing locations -- but one might be poured over with concrete, and the other, the tree was removed.  BP was convinced these would be solved within a few months after the book's release -- he wasn't counting on it taking 25 years.

thanks bigmattyh i read all of this thread and saw it wasn't at the tree. just thought i'd add some ideas.

slappy - if you're right, why the reference to "pass the compass"? That takes us away from the staircase.

forest_blight, i'm using the interactive map at Lake Park Friends site for guidance. the compass could just mean that area, boundary or curve or forming a circle. looking at the circular part of the staircase reminds me of her cloak. maybe it means just circle around the staircase..  it seemed  to fit if the birch at the first of the verse meant "wood", then "to the first young brch" could mean "newberry".  and newberry would be on the backside of the grand staircase wouldn't it? but then there is more to the verse. could you tell me if the girl scout tree is on the backside of the staircase?

slappybuns wrote:: could you tell me if the girl scout tree is on the backside of the staircase? there are 2 girl scout trees.  One is at the top of what we are calling ravine 2.  And the other is at the bottom of what we are calling parking lot ravine.  We call it parking lot ravine because it starts from the parking lot that is at the top of the grand staircase.  The bottom of PLR comes out near the soccer field which is between the bottom of ravine 1 and the grand staircase.  I'm not sure that I agree with your logic SB but I like where you are going with this.  I also believe that the spot we are looking for is nearer the grand staircase.  If you start at the GS and then walk over the golf course to the head of ravine 1, walk down R1 to LMD and then back to the GS you have traveled in a big circle.  And as there is a circle in the image, I believe that this is the correct path for us to follow.  As to where we go from there, I am not sure.  This line of reasoning puts the girl scout tree at the bottom of PLR into play but the problem with that is it doesn't look anything like the tree which is formed by the bend in her cloak(of course, it is only an assumption that that tree is the proud tall fifth.)  Also, I searched from the bottom of R1 to the GS and didn't find anything that looked like that tree.  At the moment I am leaning toward what is number 11 on your interactive Lake Park map, the American War Mother's Plaque.  This would take you past the GS again going back the way you came.  I like this because if you read the plaque it says that the memorial is some trees (not sure what kind).

hi digger, i was thinking those were columns instead of trees in the dress, aren't there columns at the very top of the staircase?. i was thinking maybe going back down and  around the staircase to be under the columns. but really something about the shape of that cloak around her shoulders reminds me of the circular part in the staircase. it just seemed you were all so close to finding it, it is there somewhere. and i remember reading about one of the solves and how the the brick in the picture behind the jewel , matched perfectly with the brick at the site. and her cloak just seemed like circular part of the stairs. hopefully you know the area.

digger7, somehow a tree doesn't seem to me a permanent thing, something you could trust to be there forever. street names and plaques and monuments seem more likely.  you have an apt name for a treasure hunter

slappybuns wrote:: digger7, somehow a tree doesn't seem to me a permanent thing, something you could trust to be there forever. street names and plaques and monuments seem more likely.  you have an apt name for a treasure hunter Well... as I said a few posts back, BP didn't expect this hunt to go on forever.  He thought all the casques would be found in a few months or a year.  He didn't bury these casques with a 20- or 30-year horizon in mind. In the Cleveland solve, street names did change, tossing one clue from the image right out. As for the Milwaukee solve, I'm a big fan of the fallen birch near the women's tees on the golf course.  It fits the verse and the image better than any other.  Problem is, without that tree still standing, that casque could be in an area way too big to dig up... unless wilhouse can trek up north and dig it out with his earth mover.

i have no sure thing, just thought i'd post what came to mind after reading this thread b4 i confused it with another verse. because i'm wondering now if those lion bridges (pride) are the columns i see.

digger7, how long has that lighthouse sign that says it used to be "100" feet away been there? i think that's to let you know you're going the right way. 'm liking the lion's bridge, behind the 5th rail,

I believe the solution for the Chicago treasure did incorporate trees.

Unknown: I believe the solution for the Chicago treasure did incorporate trees. Johann,  I believe you are correct.  I remember shadowrunner's discussion of the solve and that "The end of ten by thirteen"  was actually an area defined by 10 trees in a row running perpendicular to 13 trees in a row.

i missed that post, i thought i read where 10 was for "J" jackson street, and 13 was for "M" monroe street

slappybuns wrote:: i missed that post, i thought i read where 10 was for "J" jackson street, and 13 was for "M" monroe street No, it was for the grove of trees.

Don't know if this was brought up before but "stories of Mitchell could be "Billy Mitchell from WW1--"view the beating of the world" as walking through a war musuem and the time and space thing, could refer to that period in history?--just a thought thrown out

We had a bit of a thaw, and much of the snow melted. So I took advantage of the weather and drove down to the lakefront on Saturday Jan 12th. I am still convinced that the tree with the "G" carved into it, is THE tree.  I took pictures of the "G" again...and touched the carving of it...felt the depth of the cut....It also seemed to have a straight line underneath it...as if it were underlined. Since the manager of Lake Park said that the stone wall was constructed in the mid to late 80's, I still think that the "box" was entombed in the material which filled in behind the stone wall. (This summer, I removed every loose rock from the top of the walled in area...only to find a solid, impenetrable mass of rock-like material...which I took to be man-made...as it conformed to the space.) It is also possible that the box was found by a workman. Until proven otherwise, I believe that the location was indeed found...and will have to take satisfaction in that. AP

The likelyhood that a worker found the casque is very likely. They would not know what it was and keep it or sell it to an antique dealer. One way to find this is out is either us or the park manager send an e-mail to all the construction companies that put up the wall explaining the situation and asking them to see if anyone that worked on the project found the casque. Another area to exsplore is former park managers they have likely gone through several sence the time the wall was constructed. If a worker did find the casque they may have showen it to the park manager who let them keep it. Another possibility if you could find someone that had the technology is to use ground penatrateing rader on the concrete to see what can be found. You may be able to talk the park into letting you jackhammer up a small amount of concrete if you know something definate and agree to put it back at your exspence.

Cost to rent jackhammer, air compressor and hose, plus $150.00 deposit: $254.00 Cost of  3 yards replacement concrete, at $65/square yard: $195.00 Cost of citation from city when you jackhammer up a piece of a public park: $1000.00 Finding out you had the wrong location for a prize worth no more than $100 in the first place: Priceless. (LOL...all in fun, folks!)

Yes you would have to really know there was something down there and convince the park of it. Before you did anything that would get rid of the $1000.00 citation. The first thing you would have to do is find someone that did ground radar that was willing to volenteer their services to radar the area. Useing ground radar may be more necessary then we think at some of these other sites.

Okay, I've read all of the posts in this thread.  From three who lived there;  Could refer to Milwaukee's three basic founders, Juneau, Kilbourn, and Walker.  Could also refer to The family of Lloyd Smith, who lived at Villa Terrace. Three Stories of Mitchell: The Domes of Mitchell Park, containing three separate botanical environements? Or Mitchell Hall, UWM, a three-story building on the corner of downer and kenwood. The Grand 200?  The Grand Staircase at Lake Park or Grand Avenue, now called Wisconsin Avenue? The beating of the world? The 'heart' of the city perhaps? The compass?  Could be anything remotely resembling a compass... I don't think of that as being a lighthouse, only because it only indicates one direction (the direction a ship goes to avoid danger, usually...) Woman with harpsichord?  A very popular subject for 17th Century Dutch paintings, or someone of historical significance from Milwaukee who was known to play a harpsichord or similar Baroque instrument. Three who lived there?  Three war heroes, like Wolcott, Mitchell, and Pabst; Or the three original founders, Juneau, Kilbourn, and Walker The treasure is definitely at the southern foot of something, something Tall (possibly a tree, possibly a tower), and one takes 92 steps in an upward direction to get there... Finding a Birch tree in Milwaukee is tantamount to finding Beer in Milwaukee-- A needle in a stack of needles, in other words. Step on Nature Cast in Copper:  not certain, but I found this (who knows? There may be more of them):

Some of us concluded that the lighthouse is the compass because its name is North Point Lighthouse. Compasses point north. It's a play on words. We also concluded that "cast in copper" was... well, look the back of any penny minted since 1959, then look at a map of Lake Park and you'll understand.

Hmmmmmm....  I don't know...  I don't think this looks much like the Lincoln memorial....

No dude - Lincoln Memorial Drive.

Right.  I was seriously hoping it was more profound than that.  Not that I'm criticizing it... There's also a Lincoln Park, and a statue of Ole' Honest Abe on a bridge too...  I also discovered that those tiles ARE throughout Pere Marquette Park... on the sidewalk...  As it happens, PMP is also slanted, going from NW to SE, and has bridges at the north and south sides which cross the Milwaukee.  The Historical Society shares the land (its the triangular building in the SW corner), and I would be wrong to discount the fact that every year they have a festival called "Milwaukee Rhythms" or something to that effect.  Granted, this is only its twelfth year, but shecrab taught me a long time ago not to discount what fortune drops in front of you... To preclude the inevitable:  ">sigh< It's only 13 years old, KLBT" from fox, let me clarify-- It may be sign from the fae that we're on the right track.

Unknown: There's also a Lincoln Park, and a statue of Ole' Honest Abe on a bridge too... Yes, but Lincoln Memorial Drive. Lincoln Memorial . BP is playing clever word games with us.

13 years old, klbt from fox? Huh?

forest_blight wrote:: Yes, but Lincoln Memorial Drive. Lincoln Memorial . BP is playing clever word games with us. FB, when you think about it, that could probably be (to date) the biggest breakthrough we have concerning The Secret's secret verses.

boogieman wrote:: FB, when you think about it, that could probably be (to date) the biggest breakthrough we have concerning The Secret's secret verses. I would personally nominate 'SELOY' confirmer as the biggest breakthrough. If we could have ONE breakthrough for each verse, this would be much easier.

VERSE 8 I thought I would take the opportunity to try to summarize what we think we know about this verse.. View the three stories of Mitchell Start at Mitchell Hall which is a three story building on the campus of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.  It is on the corner of E. Kenwood Blvd. and N. Downer Ave. As you walk the beating of the world Across from Mitchell Hall is a building that used to be a synagogue(if I am remembering this thread correctly).  The phrase the beating of the world is from a Jewish Shabbat ceremony. In the quiet of my soul I Feel the beating of the World . It is not other than I nor am I other than it. As wave is to ocean so am I to the World and to the source that sustains it. At a distance in time From three who lived there As you walk down E. Kenwood Blvd toward Lake Park you cross N. Downer Ave., N. Hackett Ave., and N. Sheppard Ave which were all named for people who lived in Milwaukee. At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing Not a clue, we're not even sure how this part of the verse is read.  Is the woman playing the harpsichord or are the woman and the harpsichord separate items?  Is the harpsichord playing silently or is the woman playing silently? Is it an individual woman or did BP mean women in general?  And what is that comma doing in there?  BP was very frugal with his punctuation so I would guess it means something. Step on nature Cast in copper Enter Lake Park on Lincoln Memorial Dr.  Kenwood Blvd. becomes LMD as you enter the park. Ascend the 92 steps Go up the stairs of the Grand Staircase in Lake Park which has exactly 92 steps.  There is a series of pictures on this forum showing the staircase with numbers superimposed over them and there are exactly 92 steps. After climbing the grand 200 From above the outline of the Grand Staircase is a double C.  Two C's in Roman numerals equal 200. Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk through the golf course(I believe that the two red balls she is juggling in the image are golf tee markers and this is also where that huge multi-trunk birch tree was.  It is now quietly decomposing just off the edge of the golf course in the trees.) and get to N. Wahl Ave.  The start of both Ravine 1 and Ravine 2 are on this street.  They run parrallel to each other and you have to pass the Northpoint Lighthouse either way but only in Ravine 1 can you find the foot of a culvert below the bridge .  Go down Ravine 1, pass the Northpoint Lighthouse(we believe that this is the compass from the verse because compasses point north), pass under the Lions Head bridge and over a wooden footbridge(the wooden footbridge is almost directly under the Lions Head bridge.)  And then in a stone embankment just past the wooden footbridge is the foot of the culvert.  This can be seen in some pictures I posted in the Milwaukee Update thread. Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil Ravine 1 continues southeast at this point(and the trail is both rock and soil) and it is about 100 paces(depends on how you count a pace) from the foot of the culvert to where the trail ends as you come back out onto LMD To the first young birch Dunno, I'm not a tree expert and the trees there are so tall now that it is difficult to get a good look at their leaves.  But I am prepared to believe that there is or was a young birch tree there. Pass three, staying west At this point, the verse becomes moot(or debatable as shecrab reminded us).  If you turn right as you exit Ravine 1 you will immediately see three more obvious trees followed by another tree that is both proud and tall.  However, this tree does not have a letter from the country of wonderstones hearth , it does not look like the tree in the fold of her cape, and several intrepid members of this forum dug around this tree and found nothing. I believe staying west just tells us to stay on the west side of LMD. If you turn left as you exit Ravine 1 and walk about 15-20 feet you will see(if your eyes are good) the tree that animalpainter found that has a G carved into the bark.  She dug there and also found nothing, however, there is a cement retaining wall at the base of tree that was put in after BP buried the casque.  Animalpainter believes that the casque is under the cement. If you look on a map of the path that you have walked from the top of the Grand Staircase to the bottom of Ravine 1 you will notice that you have roughly walked in a circle.  I believe that that is why there is a circle in the image.  BP was showing us the path to follow.  So my current thinking is that the spot we are looking for is back on the other side of the Grand Staircase.  I wish my current thinking had coincided with when I was in Milwaukee so I could check this out.  Incidently there are two war memorial in that area.  The first one(as you are entering the park and walking toward the Grand Staircase) is dedicated to Mary E. Spence, a past national president of the American War Mothers.  The second one is closer to the Grand staircase and is dedicated to those who died in WWI.  This second memorial consists of a plaque and some trees. You’ll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone’s hearth This part is very moot.  I think we have had speculation on just about every letter of the alphabet for this one. G=Germany, D=Deutschland, and all the letters that those two words contain. The G stands out because there are two Girl Scout markers hammered into two trees in Lake Park.  One of them is near the start of Ravine 2.  The other is at the end of the Parking Lot Ravine(at the soccer field between Ravine 1 and the Grand Staircase).  Also because animalpainter found a G carved into a tree near the bottom of Ravine 1. I have another thought.  The German alphabet contains 30 letters while the English alphabet only has 26.  The additional four letters are: ë, ü, ö, ß.  The third letter, ö, could be represented by the remains of a sheared off branch with two smaller ones directly above the larger one.  However, I looked for this when I was in Milwaukee and didn't see anything like this. On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot I'm assuming this is the tree that is represented by the fold in her cape.  That tree does have what I would describe as a foot. The treasure awaits. Yep, it has been waiting for quite awhile. Just to recap, these are the things that I believe we still need to find the woman and the harpsichord the first young birch the three things you need to pass the letter from the country of wonderstones hearth the proud tall fifth AP may have found the letter from wonderstones hearth.  Could you give us some more details about where the tree is located?  Does it look like the tree in the fold of the woman's cape?  Does it have a southern foot?  Also, what program did you use to put the circle and the words on your pics?

Nice job digger - to think it took so much argueing to get to be within feet of this one. hxxp://search.isp.netscape.com/nsisp/bo ... FLake1.pdf To help out the visually impared.

Nice summary!

with a summary like that, we should have that darn treasure in our hands. very nicely put indeed digger.

I Third it! Here's the problem with having too many threads, I can't find diggers pic of the culvert. I'd like to pose a question though.... Pass the compass and reach the foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil A culvert could be considered the drainpipe, the bridge or roadway that passes over it, or the channel it is going into. The ravine. Again, if BP used ravine in the verse instead of culvert , it would be too easy.  Can this verse fit to where you actually pass right next to the North Point going west to the start of the ravine?  If you are going to consider 100 paces as yards, you would walk right into the lake, or at least across Lincoln Memorial Drive if you started southeast from the bridge.  But if you start at the beginning of the ravine west of the light house, and walk 100 yards, over rock and soil, it would put you just at the bridge.  I think you can see that very well when you look at it from www.local.live.com rotated with east being at the top of the map set to the Bird's Eye view.  Perfect spot to hide a casque.  Yeah, i know, I have trouble getting the verse to do it too.  Just maybe you have to walk 100 paces to get to the bridge. I keep thinking of paces as the steps walked off like during a duel.  10 paces, turn and shoot.  Pretty big steps.

Okay okay okay--- first of all, Lincoln Memorial drive is a Freeway. One which could be said to have a passing reference to being 'cast in copper,' or greater if that's what you want.  Secondly, Milwaukee Rhythms was what I meant about thirteen years--it's only been in existence that long, and if you read the intial post I made about it, I said this.  Because of the reference to the Shabbat, one could ASSUME that a synagogue was meant, but Preiss was himself Jewish (which means he may have already known that phrase), so he may have used to the term to mean any of the MANY cathedrals, churches, synagogues, and temples that are in Milwaukee.  Incidentally, Amethyst, the birthstone for Feb. is worn by priests, and is said to represent spiritual peace.  Spiritual Peace for milwaukee, again, could mean any place of worship.  Lastly, would BP have known that the Grand Staircase looked like two inverted C's from above?  Without Google earth, it's hard to tell.  Not to mention, that from above there are way too many parks that have things that look like inverted C's. Do I even have to mention that the Grand Entrance is on Lake Street?  I mean, the entrance to the park itself, not to do with the "Grand" part...  If you are certain of where it's at, tell Shadowrunner to go dig it up...I believe he said he would be going to Milwaukee again this spring.  THEN tell me what it is or is not within feet of.

forest_blight wrote:: I made a map to help us all orient ourselves. It's too big to post here in one piece, but the whole thing can be downloaded here: hxxp://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/map_with_text.jpg Beware that your browser will probably try to compress the image to fit on your monitor. Holding your pointer over the image for a few seconds should make an "expansion" icon appear. Here are the important bits: [glow=red,2,300](NOTE: SUPERSEDED BY NEWER MAPS)[/glow] Does this agree with everyone's ideas about what is where, and how to get there? I couldn't pick out *precisely* where the important trees are. Can you help with that, stercox? Let me bump relavant photos so no one gets lost....

forest_blight wrote:: Okay, here we go. Stercox, do these match your recollection? The full map: hxxp://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/map_with_text2.gif another one.

Re: Milwaukee update « Reply #223 on: July 21, 2007, 04:09:38 » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hey all, I have spent the last ten days bumming around Milwaukee and I spent a few days at Lake Park trying to figure out the path that the verse lays out.  Everytime I followed the verse I ended up at the same tree that FB and stercox dug at last year.  So needless to say I didn't find it but I do have a few things to report. First, I checked a bunch of different parks and saw absolutely no reason to believe that it is anywhere other than Lake Park.  I didn't expect to but I thought I would be thorough. Secondly, this is a minor point as it doesn't change the location any, I don't think that the two balls the woman in the image is juggling are lawnbowling balls.  I think they are golf tee markers on the golf course right next to the lawnbowling fields.  My rationale is a) the color is right and the same all the time while the only people I saw lawnbowling were using black balls b) tee markers would be there all the time whereas lawnbowling balls would only be there if someone was playing, and c) tee markers come in sets of two while lawnbowling balls come in sets of 3-4(I think) Thirdly, I believe I found the culvert that is referred to in the lines: PASS THE COMPASS AND REACH THE FOOT OF THE CULVERT BELOW THE BRIDGE After climbing the grand staircase you have to cross the golf course in order to get to the stairs that lead down into ravine 1.  At first, I didn't really like this because there is a far easier way to pass the compass.  You just stay on the path that leads around the golf course and pass the compass by crossing the lion's head bridge.  However, from there there is no easy way to get down into the ravine and below the bridge.  It's doable but you could easily fall and hurt yourself climbing down the steeps sides of the ravine.  So I'm sure that BP would have taken (and wanted us to take) the far safer way and cross the golf course and descend into ravine 1 via the stairs at the far end of the ravine.  Once down there just before you reach the lion's head bridge you pass the compass.  You can't see it from there and I don't know whether or not you could see it from there in 1982 but you definitely pass it.  When you are under the lion's head bridge you are standing on a wooden footbridge and holding up the far end of the wooden footbridge is a stonewall.  In that stone wall is the culvert.  It is an old clay pipe that is a drain or channel under the path(which is the definition of a culvert.)  It is actually below (in elevation) both bridges, the lion's head bridge and the wooden footbridge.  It is not directly under either the lion's head bridge or the wooden footbridge.  You would be about 4-5 feet past both bridges when you get to the culvert.  I did not see anything like that below the bridge in ravine 2. If you then walk 100 paces from the culvert(and I took a pace to mean a slightly longer than usual step) you end up at the end of the ravine at the first young birch that shadowrunner has marked on his map. Anyway, that is what I found.  I will probably be back there early next week and be there until the 31st or so if anybody wants to get together and do some searching. digger7

forest_blight wrote:: Some maps from stercox. These clear things up a bit, and include corrections to my aerial view: to explain diggers less steep route

Dig it up.

Unknown: Dig it up. Already tried - your turn!

Where have you dug?  This question also applies to everyone who has already dug somewhere.  I am putting pins on a map to narrow everything down...

Unknown: Oh and i forgot to mention... a Pace, as in a step taken, is the distance between each time your right foot hits the ground (or your left, depending on which you prefer to count)... On average, your steps are farther apart going down hill, and closer together going up hill.  The average distance between them is about one meter;  However, a human being usually takes between 50 and 70 steps to equal 100m.  I am 5'10 and my 100m pacecount is about 67 steps (where my right foot hits the ground).  That was measured carrying about 25lbs. of extra weight, which included a shovel, coincidentally, and where I was wearing boots (the ankle support figures into this by how much your ankles will carry you with each step).  By the way-- why is Germany the country of wonderstone's hearth?  Why couldn't it be Spain?  Or England? Quote from Typler 100 meters converts to 109.3 yards.  If 67 paces is 109.3 yards SE from the bridge for Typler, where does that leave us at Lake park?  At 100 paces, we are 163 yards SE of the bridge. More than 1 1/2 football fields away.  Can a pace mean something else?

Unknown: By the way-- why is Germany the country of wonderstone's hearth?  Why couldn't it be Spain?  Or England? Because the stone for this picture is the amethyst, which is associated with Germany in the Litany of the Jewels (see p. 21). Every picture has an associated month (2 balls = February), birthstone (amethyst), and birthflower (primrose).

But aren't amethyst purple to violet?  The book, the scans, and the hi-res all appear to have blue gems...  The other reason I question this reasoning is because Wonderstone is a completely different mineral altogether... Not to mention that Amethyst are formed by volcanic activity, whereby liquids rich in silica are deposited in geodes in lava.  An active volcano is, geologically, one which has erupted within the last 20000 years, of which there are none in Germany.  I believe I mentioned this before.  Same with wonderstone... Now, it is a fact that Amethyst deposits have been discovered in the Lake Superior region, but that wouldn't specifically imply Germany...

A Pace can mean many things, but that is how we counted them in the Army.  By the way--does anyone have any ideas as to what (speaking of the litany) the 13th gemstone might be?

It's the casque itself.

Is that a theory, or can you provide some type of evidence for that?  Why not the key too, to make it 14? After all, the key is the REAL treasure...

has anyone dug around the foot of the lion's bridge? or around it, or poked it?

Trohn, Thanks for the very informational walk through on your quest. I'm feeling you all are getting close to getting another one and I'm biting nails and waiting.

Unknown: Is that a theory, or can you provide some type of evidence for that?  Why not the key too, to make it 14? After all, the key is the REAL treasure... The Litany ends with: Wonder and glory thirteen-fold: These are the treasures the Fair Folk bring Every treasure (all 13 of them) gets 2 lines each in the Litany. In the order mentioned, the "treasures the Fair Folk bring" (and their sources) are: Garnet (England) Emerald (Celtic = Ireland) Sapphire (Iberia = Spain) Turquoise (France) Amethyst (Germany) Opal (Lowland = Netherlands) Topaz (Russia) Peridot (Italy) Ruby (Araby = Arabia) Diamond (Africa) Aquamarine (Hellas = Greece) Pearl (Cathay = China) These are all stated straightforwardly on pp. 20-21. And finally... Each jewel in its weird-wrought casque Gift of the Viking craftsmen elves It is no coincidence that the 12 jewels are also the birthstones of the 12 months. See this, under the "Modern Birthstone" column: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthstone#Birthstones It has also been noted that each picture contains the corresponding birthflower, and some numerical indication of the corresponding birth month.

Unknown: But aren't amethyst purple to violet?  The book, the scans, and the hi-res all appear to have blue gems...  The other reason I question this reasoning is because Wonderstone is a completely different mineral altogether... Not to mention that Amethyst are formed by volcanic activity, whereby liquids rich in silica are deposited in geodes in lava.  An active volcano is, geologically, one which has erupted within the last 20000 years, of which there are none in Germany.  I believe I mentioned this before.  Same with wonderstone... Now, it is a fact that Amethyst deposits have been discovered in the Lake Superior region, but that wouldn't specifically imply Germany... The author does not literally mean a "wonderstone" of the rhyolite variety you are probably thinking of. He is poetically referring to the fairies' jewel. So "wonderstone's hearth" means "home of the jewel for this verse" which is most definitely Germany. As for the color, yes, it does look blue. The color is a bit off. But it's the closest to purple of any of the pictured jewels. By inspection, the following are indisputable matches: P1 = pearl P7 = turquoise P9 = opal Because folks have found them, these matches are indisputable: P4 = aquamarine P5 = emerald ...and the month/birthstone/birthflower theme can be used to remove any doubt about the rest: P2 = 4th month + daisy + African theme + clear gem = diamond P3 = 1st month + carnation + English theme + red gem = garnet P6 = 9th month + aster + Spanish theme + blue gem = sapphire P8 = 7th month + larkspur + Arabian theme + red gem = ruby P11 = 8th month + gladiolus + green gem = peridot By elimination and by thematic clues, that leaves: P10 = 2nd month + primrose = amethyst

Unknown: Here's the problem with having too many threads, I can't find diggers pic of the culvert. Unknown: I'd like to pose a question though.... Pass the compass and reach the foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil A culvert could be considered the drainpipe, the bridge or roadway that passes over it, or the channel it is going into. The ravine. Again, if BP used ravine in the verse instead of culvert , it would be too easy.  Can this verse fit to where you actually pass right next to the North Point going west to the start of the ravine?  If you are going to consider 100 paces as yards, you would walk right into the lake, or at least across Lincoln Memorial Drive if you started southeast from the bridge.  But if you start at the beginning of the ravine west of the light house, and walk 100 yards, over rock and soil, it would put you just at the bridge.  I think you can see that very well when you look at it from www.local.live.com rotated with east being at the top of the map set to the Bird's Eye view.  Perfect spot to hide a casque.  Yeah, i know, I have trouble getting the verse to do it too.  Just maybe you have to walk 100 paces to get to the bridge. I keep thinking of paces as the steps walked off like during a duel.  10 paces, turn and shoot.  Pretty big steps. Unknown: Lastly, would BP have known that the Grand Staircase looked like two inverted C's from above?  Without Google earth, it's hard to tell.  Not to mention, that from above there are way too many parks that have things that look like inverted C's. Unknown: has anyone dug around the foot of the lion's bridge? or around it, or poked it? Thanks, I have actually been meaning to write that summary for 6 months now.  And thanks for bumping the maps to go along with them. They are in the Milwaukee update thread on page 21.  It is the link to the pics on flickr not the pics themselves. I think what you are saying  would work if BP constructed the verse so that the steps were not in one-right-after-the-other order.  You would start at the head of Ravine 1 and walk 100 paces SE over rock and soil and then pass the compass and get to the foot of the culvert.  However, I believe that Ravine 1 doesn't run SE for most of its length.  Only after you cross under the Lions Head bridge does the trail turn slightly so that you are now going SE. Perhaps I misspoke when I used the word above.  At any point, either from the base or the top, where you can see the whole staircase you can see the double C. not that I know of

forest_blight wrote:: The author does not literally mean a "wonderstone" of the rhyolite variety you are probably thinking of. He is poetically referring to the fairies' jewel. So "wonderstone's hearth" means "home of the jewel for this verse" which is most definitely Germany. As for the color, yes, it does look blue. The color is a bit off. But it's the closest to purple of any of the pictured jewels. By inspection, the following are indisputable matches: P1 = pearl P7 = turquoise P9 = opal Because folks have found them, these matches are indisputable: P4 = aquamarine P5 = emerald ...and the month/birthstone/birthflower theme can be used to remove any doubt about the rest: P2 = 4th month + daisy + African theme + clear gem = diamond P3 = 1st month + carnation + English theme + red gem = garnet P6 = 9th month + aster + Spanish theme + blue gem = sapphire P8 = 7th month + larkspur + Arabian theme + red gem = ruby P11 = 8th month + gladiolus + green gem = peridot By elimination and by thematic clues, that leaves: P10 = 2nd month + primrose = amethyst very nice summation, fb

So far you have said the same thing three times, and not answered my question; I KNOW what the litany says, because I have it in front of me.  A hearth is the entrance to a fireplace, by almost every single definition of it.  I am not disputing that an Amethyst means Germany, but the fact that the word "wonderstone" is used is too close to the line without definitely going over to either side.  Now, the jewel reference to a specific country is interesting, because the Emerald painting (Chicago) doesn't seem to have any Irish/Celtic influences (except the fairies); And the painting that DOES have a pronounced celtic theme (11) has a green jewel which cannot be an emerald if it was already used...  The other stone that it might be, judging from the color, is Peridot, which is Italy...

Unknown: So far you have said the same thing three times, and not answered my question I give up. Can someone else help me out here?? Perhaps I didn't understand the question.

UHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! HEARTH ALSO MEANS HOME!!!!!!!! HOME HOME HOME!!!!!!!!!  don't forget about that.  So basically, YOU'LL SEE A LETTER FROM THE COUNTRY OF WONDERSTONE'S HOME!!!!!!!!  WONDERSTONE IS MENTIONED IN THE BOOK IN REFERENCE TO THE AMETHYST...  SO YOU'LL SEE A LETTER FROM THE COUNTRY OF AMETHYST'S HOME!!!!!! AMETHYST'S HOME IS GERMANY!!!!!!!!! Hope that clears up the confusion!!!!!!!!!! PHEW... -regulus

emerald is green, peridot is green.  We already have solved 100% of the months/flowers/birthstones and matched them to their correct picture. So I don't think there is any use going over the stones.  Unless it's about Milwaukee, but it's got to be an amethyst.  Two balls, February Flower. February=2. -regulus

ok, now even i am confused. are you just trying to rock the boat now? there is NO dispute on what jewels are in each picture BECAUSE of each picture's reference to a specific birth month. why is this even being brought up? just when i thought it was safe to read these threads........

You know, Fox, for someone who supposedly "values" new ideas and thoughts, you've been remarkably resistant to Typler's. You welcome other posters, yet you seem to want to refute everything he says. This has nothing whatsoever to do with our being related---I've kept my mouth shut on this Milwaukee "solution" since I first read it on these boards, and I've read every post on the threads. However, I'm not sure this solution is valid EITHER, and not only because the casque wasn't found. I find a great deal of difficulty with the idea that this "wonderstone's hearth" is Germany. Or that the stone is an amethyst. Yes, I know it's significant of February, and the number 2--but why on earth would the stone be pictured as blue, and not purple/lavender, as nearly everyone in the entire cosmos associates with amethyst? I've never seen a blue one ever. I don't think it makes a lot of difference where it comes from, frankly--and yet it seems to be an issue that it remains exactly as one or two people have declared it to be--and godsforbid anyone refutes any part of this. I was told when I first came on this forum that it was fairly cliqueish that way, but I refused to take anyone else's word for it until I discovered for myself how things were. I have to say, I probably should have heeded the early warnings. At times, this forum feels like the "domain" of a few older posters--despite what anyone else wants to post or think--and that puts me off in a big way. It makes it difficult to brainstorm. It makes it difficult to introduce new thoughts. It makes it difficult for anyone who isn't "favored" to feel welcome. Right or wrong isn't the point here. Re-thinking old ideas isn't the point either. It's a feeling that you simply better not refute some of the older ideas that have taken root, because you just won't be welcome to do so--and frankly, I find that off-putting. Perhaps you feel that the Milwaukee solution is correct, but I hate to hammer the point home again-- a casque was not found . So EITHER, the solution is incorrect, or it dissolved into the earth. What's wrong with going over the old ideas with new eyes and trying to find a chink in the concrete? It's made me reluctant to continue posting at all.

shecrab wrote:: This has nothing whatsoever to do with our being related---I've kept my mouth shut on this Milwaukee "solution" since I first read it on these boards, and I've read every post on the threads. However, I'm not sure this solution is valid EITHER, and not only because the casque wasn't found. I find a great deal of difficulty with the idea that this "wonderstone's hearth" is Germany. Or that the stone is an amethyst. Yes, I know it's significant of February, and the number 2--but why on earth would the stone be pictured as blue, and not purple/lavender, as nearly everyone in the entire cosmos associates with amethyst? I've never seen a blue one ever. shecrab wrote:: I don't think it makes a lot of difference where it comes from, frankly--and yet it seems to be an issue that it remains exactly as one or two people have declared it to be--and godsforbid anyone refutes any part of this. As you say, it is not a "solution" until a casque is unearthed. But the purpose of this forum is to exchange and debate ideas. When two competing ideas occur, it makes sense for us to debate which explanation makes the most sense and is the most parsimonious. For example, two competing ideas might be A: "the gem in P10 is an amethyst" and B: "the gem in P10 is not an amethyst." We have to consider the full body of evidence in favor of (and against) each hypothesis. I believe that there is a remarkable amount of evidence in favor of the amethyst theory. Beyond simply conforming nicely to the country/birthmonth/stone/flower theme, consider what it would mean were it not an amethyst. 11 of the jewels would be birthstones that conform exactly to the theme ...except for the one in P10. Why would JJP/BP do that deliberately? It makes no sense to have (e.g.) two sapphires when everything else conforms to the theme. When something clicks that well, you have to give it a certain amount of credence. Why does it appear to be blue? I think you see this as deadly to the amethyst theory, but I don't. I don't believe it is a big stretch for what looks purple on a painting to translate poorly into an illustration in a mass-produced paperback (is purple really all that different from blue?). Colors in books often simply do not look like they do in person, if we were staring at the actual painting. It is much easier for me to believe that the coloring in the book is not 100% faithful to the original painting than it is for me to believe that one jewel violates a complex theme that makes perfect sense for all the other images. Personally, I consider the "wonderstone's hearth = Germany" idea speculative. It's appealing, certainly, but far from definite. I don't think I or anyone else meant to shoot down the proposal that it could mean something else, but of the many interpretations that have surfaced, it still makes the most sense to me that "wonderstone" refers to a jewel in a book that is all about hunting fairy jewels. "Wonderstone" is an apt way to describe such a thing. It could very well be a literal reference to a fireplace made out of wonderstone (rhyolite), but it seems to me that BP is trying to be cryptic and poetic here. It is a riddle, after all. I don't want to squelch new ideas. But I think it's fair to suggest that the new ideas have to lead somewhere if they are going to be useful. If you favor a particular idea, see where it takes you, share what you find, and we'll debate it until the weaknesses are uncovered. It will either lead somewhere useful or it won't. BTW, is it mainly the wonderstone and amethyst theories that you disagree with, or is it the broader claim that the P10 casque is in Milwaukee?

forest_blight wrote:: "Wonderstone" is an apt way to describe such a thing. It could very well be a literal reference to a fireplace made out of wonderstone (rhyolite), but it seems to me that BP is trying to be cryptic and poetic here. It is a riddle, after all. Just as 'mica' refers to sand. The main arguement that I see that is being touted as a 'Con' against current 'theories' (not just Milwaulkee) is that - (a) the debated location has too much errosion for BP to select or   (b) since it is too difficult for us to retrieve it from there, it would have been too difficult for BP to bury it in the first place. I find both of those counter arguements to hold less weight than throwing a dart at a map and digging at the random location.

Unknown: the debated location has too much errosion for BP to select This might actually be a problem if Roanoke holds a casque - the shore is receding at an alarming rate there. But it isn't an issue at Milwaukee's Lake park. We have photos from way back that show pretty much the same landscape you see today. Unless he buried it on the beach, it's probably still there.

Following up on a previous issue, a paragraph on p. 30 reads: With these original emigrés went the Fair People's treasure: the wonderstones of their Litany , encased and protected in treasure casques fashioned by the Nordic Elves. These too would be hidden from the eyes of Man.

Good morning from a snowy Milwaukee! Since we are experiencing a heat wave...6 degrees above freezing when I was out... I decided to take a quick look at Lake Park in its totally "winterized" state...no leaves, no color...to distract from or hide the tree trunks. I took along my trusty camera and got a lot of shots of the woods along LMD. Just to whet your appetite, until I can prepare the photos for display on Webshots, I will say that I found a tree with a very unmistakable capital "D". (Deutschland?) more later AP

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a casque is in Milwaukee.  And it seems a fair assumption, based on 75% of the evidence to claim that it is in Lake Park; But there are two things that "rock the boat" by themselves, and obviously need no help if all I have to do is Mention them Foxy Brown: First, that the view of the Milwaukee Courthouse in the painting is from Behind it, in a 3/4 profile of sorts.  And second, that the stone, while implied to be an amethyst by elimination, is bright blue-- not bluish, or even light bluish-purple, but blue.  And I can tell you from my experience in print-making that no color printer in history has ever had a problem making the color purple, or its variants.  Not one.  You ask why BP might have made one deliberately different?  I don't know, it wouldn't be the only one would it?  The NYC one supposedly has ONE WTC tower, The Roanoke Island Knight has his finger sticking out past the frame, and several paintings have no clocks... Seems like the 'formula' has more variables than constants...

Unknown: First, that the view of the Milwaukee Courthouse in the painting is from Behind it, in a 3/4 profile of sorts. Unknown: And second, that the stone, while implied to be an amethyst by elimination, is bright blue-- not bluish, or even light bluish-purple, but blue.  And I can tell you from my experience in print-making that no color printer in history has ever had a problem making the color purple, or its variants.  Not one. Unknown: You ask why BP might have made one deliberately different?  I don't know, it wouldn't be the only one would it?  The NYC one supposedly has ONE WTC tower, The Roanoke Island Knight has his finger sticking out past the frame, and several paintings have no clocks... Seems like the 'formula' has more variables than constants... I guess I see the Milwaukee City Hall as a city confirmer, much like Chicago's Water Tower or Cleveland's Terminal Tower. Viewing perspective was irrelevant for those, so why not for City Hall? Is the Mona Lisa's sky green or brown? Why is the finger outside the frame problematic? Of the paintings that DO have clocks, they all conform exactly to the birth month/stone/flower theme. Of the paintings that DON'T have clocks, there is still some prominent numerical indicator of the month (number of red balls = 2, Roman numeral = 10, number of columns = 7, number of asters = 9, number of warts = 5, prominent triangle = 3 sides). The only one I had difficulty with is P11, but the number of gold bands on the globe stand = 8.

Sorry if I wasn't clear : I was pointing out that there were elements in every painting that are not shared by the others, the birthstone indicators being one of them; not that they aren't indicated, just not in the same way. Maybe the two solves don't matter because those particular landmarks are 'Towers;' in other words, they look like tall pointy spires no matter which angle you view them from, at least in silhouette.  I am not figuring in the little buildings at the bottoms, just the immediately recognizable parts, which for most people was the Tower bit... Milwaukee City Hall only looks like a tower from the front, because of an optical illusion, which they put on their street signs and such... As for eleven, you could narrow that down to August by the Peridot, if not the fact that all of the others are confirmed. Incidentally, Lake Park DOES have a serious erosion problem, because anyone who read up on the lighthouse knows it was moved because of it... When it's front yard fell into the lake.  All 75 statues, monuments, fountains and whatever else are undergoing a 50 billion dollar proposed refurbishment... Also, someone mentioned retaining walls, which are most likely there for the same reason. I mention the jewels because according to the Litany and other parts of the text, they matter to the solution.

i just feel that discussions are being started on things that do not need discussing. yes, amethysts do range in colors from purples to reds to blues. but why argue this? the other items in this image clearly represent February. yes, that is the back of city hall. so what. the cleveland tower was upside down, should egg have dug in the sky? it was simply a city confirmer, nothing more nothing less. i dont discount things klbt brings up because he isn't one of the so called old timers. i just think we are focusing on things that are unnecessary, which i believe ties directly into his not wanting to read past threads. lets get our minds back into this hunt and find another casque.

The book clearly states that the Litany is important to the solution.  If you are searching for a spot of earth that is approximately one foot square and only three to three and a half feet deep, it helps to be fairly exact.  I am only "arguing" against proposed exactness where none exists.  Lake Park is roughly 1.10 miles long by .80 miles across, with a whopping total of ONE landmark to determine the treasure's location.  Possibly two or three if you count those bridges.  Out of everyone who has ACTUALLY dug in Milwaukee, there are only four spots where the treasure is NOT (until more people say where they have dug).  That is also spanning a timeframe of about 25 years, and nearly 9000 separate ideas about the hunt in general.  To date, Two casques have been recovered, with another one being impossible to dig up because of the presumption that it is beneath a wall.  The casks are hidden by riddles in which a LARGE amount of poetic license was used to write them, and paintings depicting one or two historic landmarks or noticeable features.  You may say "so what?" about the view from behind, but a reasonable observer might conclude that it is important to the location of the cask, if we are in agreement that the paintings "show" you where it is (albeit vaguely).  If I am not mistaken, you, Fox, were the one who first suggested Margaret Mitchell as the Mitchell referenced in the verse...  What was it that made you change your mind?  Was it because you went down to Georgia and dug?  Or was it because there was so much other evidence for Milwaukee?  Maybe Both? I will reiterate this for general benefit-- I am assessing ALL possibilities based on FACTS ALONE.  Deductive, rather than inductive reasoning, you might say.  My reasoning is that it IS in Lake Park because the blue glowing part of the person's Hood in the painting is a very nearly exact match for the shape, but mirrored.

hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/album/56 ... good-times Here are some photos of a tree which is to the West of the multi-trunk tree (which is pictured under the cape in image 10.) In my opinion, the multi-trunk tree is a "clincher" to prove the link of image 10 to Lake Park in Milwaukee.  If you look through the "V" of the multi-trunk tree, you can see the "D" tree in the distance. That said, there is a stump of an older tree between the D-tree and the multi-trunk tree.  Who knows what that tree looked like, or when it fell? Either tree would have been out-of-the-way for BP to be able to dig unnoticed, especially at night. When the snow melts, I will again ask permission to search in that area.

I only have one criticism of the idea for the place itself, which is that if it were beneath a tree, it would be extremely tough to dig very far down because of the root system...

KLBT, Whille walking around the Lake Park on LMD, I kept trying to think of any other object that BP could be referring to...with his references to a "young birch", "pass 3" and see a letter on a "proud tall fifth". Then his saying that the treasure is at the "southern foot", along with the images of tree trunks in image 10... I cannot see anything in that area, other than trees, that can fill all those references. AP

Yes klbt, i did think the stories of mitchell refered to her house in atlanta. i also thought i had a pretty good solve for V1/P2 pairing being at the four corners monument. then the tie in to Herman Park was made, the outline of Charleston was discovered and my theory crashed and burned. i love the new ideas that come out daily. i have never, since latitude longitude_ birth month tie ins_ and city confirmers, even thought about them as anything else. lets stop the bickering, focus on the 'unknowns' and find another casque.

please animal painter check out the lion bridge!  the "proud" could be "pride" , like pride of lions,ok? please!

on that map that trohn posted, couldn't the "over rock and soil" be the Indian mound, and then the road "locust" for birch, then i see newberry and 2 more roads ("pass three")  (on the west side) that takes you to a path  to the lion bridges.

forest_blight wrote:: I believe that there is a remarkable amount of evidence in favor of the amethyst theory. Beyond simply conforming nicely to the country/birthmonth/stone/flower theme, consider what it would mean were it not an amethyst. 11 of the jewels would be birthstones that conform exactly to the theme ...except for the one in P10. Why would JJP/BP do that deliberately? It makes no sense to have (e.g.) two sapphires when everything else conforms to the theme. When something clicks that well, you have to give it a certain amount of credence. Why does it appear to be blue? I think you see this as deadly to the amethyst theory, but I don't. I don't believe it is a big stretch for what looks purple on a painting to translate poorly into an illustration in a mass-produced paperback (is purple really all that different from blue?). Colors in books often simply do not look like they do in person, if we were staring at the actual painting. It is much easier for me to believe that the coloring in the book is not 100% faithful to the original painting than it is for me to believe that one jewel violates a complex theme that makes perfect sense for all the other images. Unknown: (is purple really all that different from blue?). Unknown: Personally, I consider the "wonderstone's hearth = Germany" idea speculative. It's appealing, certainly, but far from definite. I don't think I or anyone else meant to shoot down the proposal that it could mean something else, but of the many interpretations that have surfaced, it still makes the most sense to me that "wonderstone" refers to a jewel in a book that is all about hunting fairy jewels. "Wonderstone" is an apt way to describe such a thing. It could very well be a literal reference to a fireplace made out of wonderstone (rhyolite), but it seems to me that BP is trying to be cryptic and poetic here. It is a riddle, after all. Unknown: I don't want to squelch new ideas. But I think it's fair to suggest that the new ideas have to lead somewhere if they are going to be useful. If you favor a particular idea, see where it takes you, share what you find, and we'll debate it until the weaknesses are uncovered. It will either lead somewhere useful or it won't. Unknown: BTW, is it mainly the wonderstone and amethyst theories that you disagree with, or is it the broader claim that the P10 casque is in Milwaukee? Unknown: Yes klbt, i did think the stories of mitchell refered to her house in atlanta. i also thought i had a pretty good solve for V1/P2 pairing being at the four corners monument. then the tie in to Herman Park was made, the outline of Charleston was discovered and my theory crashed and burned. i love the new ideas that come out daily. i have never, since latitude longitude_ birth month tie ins_ and city confirmers, even thought about them as anything else. lets stop the bickering, focus on the 'unknowns' and find another casque I am not saying "I" don't believe it's an amethyst pictured in the painting--what I was saying was that when someone NEW looks at the painting, they are not going to see it as an amethyst because it's definitely the wrong color. I found the attitude of superiority very rankling when comments were made about the painted jewel not being purple (previous comments--not yours.)  And yes, I see purple and blue as two very different colors, although they are in the "cool colors" family. If you say then by reasonable inference, you'd have to say "is red all that different from purple?" or "is green all that different from yellow?"  I don't like that kind of fuzzy logic, myself. Printing processes are not that "off". They pretty much translate faithfully the colors the artist intended; for proof of that, look at any fine art painting in any museum, and then look at the photograph of it in a high-quality book and you'll see what I mean. I only meant that we have the right to question something that isn't correct--and that, for me, includes the color of the amethyst in the image. True enough--but maybe not, too. Again--it's not that these ideas are good OR exclusive--it's the fact that it's getting harder and harder to refute ideas that have been on this forum for a while because they are becoming proprietary. I say let's rehash EVERYTHING. Let's do it ALL over. It didn't work the first time--so why not? So what if we bring up ideas that have been discarded? How many times did Edison do that before getting a device that finally worked? (Lots.) As I said, if it didn't lead to a find the first time, then (a) either something's wrong with it, or (b) it's lost and we can scratch off trying. No one here has ever suggested we stop trying. Not even in the Houston solution. So why groan about ideas you've heard before then? Or new ideas-- even when they don't seem to lead anywhere obvious? Neither one...I'm merely trying to say that we need to stop trying to dampen down those who get excited about this hunt and have ideas about it, even when they refute ideas that have been widely accepted as accurate or probable. This is contrary to postings that have been put up here, Fox. You say this now, but that's not the attitude you've had recently--or at times in the past. I'm not trying to single you out here, but if you really felt like this, wouldn't you be less adamant about some ideas? For instance, you stated that(in image 2) 'since the outline of Charleston'---but if you look at a map, and take the latitude and longitude as some of the OTHER numbers in , you'll end up at Niagara Falls Canada, and you can make almost everything in the verse that you have paired up with New York City and image 2 fit together for THAT location too. I did it when I first started working this. I've conceded to the Charleston location for now because I felt there were other things that were a better fit, but I still see image 2 and the NYC verse as paired--and can give quite a bit of evidence to support it, even the map! So as for things that are set in stone, I don't believe anything is until a casque is found.

Let me just put this out there, because I can sense that it is a point of contentin for the three people that have read my posts so far (Regulus, I'm not counting you in this because so far your posts have been based almost solely off of physical evidence that you yourself perceive): Trohn, Blight, and Fox: I do not WANT to find a treasure.  I want everyone else to find them.  My motivation in this respect is personal, and i will explain it further if you wish, but let it rest at that concept alone for now; I am establishing reasonable doubt about anything that is purported to be definite in an effort to stimulate critical thinking.  Before you try to tell me that I am being arrogant or something let me first point out (again) that I don't want a casque for myself; I want it for all of you guys (everyone on the forum) because you've all put a lot of thought, and in some cases, work towards that end.  In other words, you guys deserve it.  Critical thinking is necessary because in order to find anything, you have to interpret quite a bit that is subjective: "what does the Harpsichord mean?"  "How many steps or feet are in a 'pace?'" "How does one reach a specific spot where no path exists?"  You cannot deny that time and tide have ravaged the world since 1981.  As such, you cannot discount any possibility or observation as 'silly' or 'irrelevant,' especially when the original author of the "map" is a fantasy writer/publisher. If we can agree on that much, then allow me to continue, otherwise stop reading at this point.  I can take responsibility for any errors in fact, and thank you for being kind enough to correct them; I am only offering my own interpretations based off of extensive experience in intelligence gathering, land navigation, print manufacturing, and even a little bit from my years as a published writer and graphic artist.  I have, in fact, had to answer questions like "what does the color blue mean to you?" and "what symbol represents permanence to a specific culture?"  From the psychological perspective, it seriously helps to have someone question your perceptions of the evidence that is presented, in order to know what it...looks like you are thinking about doing...if that makes sense.  In summation, my experience lies mostly with manipulating other people's perceptions in graphical and literary ways, of which I, once again, have extensive success.  Not that i am trying to 'psych you out;' I'm only trying to help you see how ambiguities can steer you in different directions than you intend.  This is not a lesson: it is an attempt to take you outside of 25 years of investigations that have yielded 1/6 of the intended assets.  I apologize for anything I've said that makes it seem otherwise.  Please continue to use whatever works best, and find something wonderful buried in the ground.  Again, you all deserve it, and I just want to watch people become triumphant.

The best proof is digging it up. (To quote Roger Clemons - 'How do you prove a negative?') ** Thick skins only need apply. ** 'We' are both a team and an individual.  For that, follow your logic and your heart, and let all others be damned. Let me just finally state the only obvious rule involved in this Secret: Tell us if you find one.  (That's it.)

And the unwritten rule: Don't dig it up and leave a note that says: "Dear Forum Member: Let this be a lesson to you." Although, that would be pretty funny.  Funnier still if someone did that and spent their time writing posts that led directly to the spot... Funnier STILL if the person made it tothe spot and found a shovel waiting for them.

Kuh-Lai-Bah-Ti wrote:: And the unwritten rule: Don't dig it up and leave a note that says: "Dear Forum Member: Let this be a lesson to you." Although, that would be pretty funny.  Funnier still if someone did that and spent their time writing posts that led directly to the spot... Funnier STILL if the person made it tothe spot and found a shovel waiting for them. Funnier stilll, digging in the spot, and uncovering a copy of the book

Funnier still (?), going there, digging, and unearthing a golden hare.

Or the solution to Alchemist dar....

KLBT, I have not once discounted any ideas that you may have and if you have felt this way...I am honestly sorry.  I dont know how to put this any other way but what upsets me is rehashed discussions on city confirmers; lat/long numbers; and birthmonth stones, flowers & month numbers.  I dont think it is just me on these boards that thinks that these aspects in the I's are definite.  By all means, throw out ideas (previously brought up or new to the boards).  I  have no problem with that.  Heck, I am about ready to toss out my 4 Corners Monument ideas again {well, maybe not...the map on the Lions head sure looks like Charleston to me....but not definitive until the casque is dug up}.  I would love to see your maps of Niagra Falls matching this SheCrab. Again, I am sorry if I have come across as closed minded to new ideas.  A brand new poster just put on a very convincing theory that goes against Boogie's NY V and Blight's Roanoke I and I am all opened to investigating it.  As I have said in the past on several occasions, I just want this 20+ year old hunt solved.  I dont think anything I have put up is contrary to me wanting casques found. KLBT, you said "Trohn, Blight, and Fox: I do not WANT to find a treasure.  I want everyone else to find them."  I am really not sure where this came from and I have never thought that you were out on your own looking for these.  I know that you are freely sharing your ideas.  That is why I love the people on this board working on this hunt.  Your mom knows all about the boards at 12 while working on ATT.  I experienced the secretive tactics and backstabbing firsthand there. That was a whole different ballgame. Lastly, I do apologize for coming off closed minded.  I never intended on that.  You know how difficult it is to try to glean a person's intent or mindset through typed words.  Lets find another casque guys

fox wrote:: KLBT, I have not once discounted any ideas that you may have and if you have felt this way...I am honestly sorry.  I dont know how to put this any other way but what upsets me is rehashed discussions on city confirmers; lat/long numbers; and birthmonth stones, flowers & month numbers.  I dont think it is just me on these boards that thinks that these aspects in the I's are definite.  By all means, throw out ideas (previously brought up or new to the boards).  I  have no problem with that.  Heck, I am about ready to toss out my 4 Corners Monument ideas again {well, maybe not...the map on the Lions head sure looks like Charleston to me....but not definitive until the casque is dug up}.  I would love to see your maps of Niagra Falls matching this SheCrab. Again, I am sorry if I have come across as closed minded to new ideas.  A brand new poster just put on a very convincing theory that goes against Boogie's NY V and Blight's Roanoke I and I am all opened to investigating it.  As I have said in the past on several occasions, I just want this 20+ year old hunt solved.  I dont think anything I have put up is contrary to me wanting casques found. KLBT, you said "Trohn, Blight, and Fox: I do not WANT to find a treasure.  I want everyone else to find them."  I am really not sure where this came from and I have never thought that you were out on your own looking for these.  I know that you are freely sharing your ideas.  That is why I love the people on this board working on this hunt.  Your mom knows all about the boards at 12 while working on ATT.  I experienced the secretive tactics and backstabbing firsthand there. That was a whole different ballgame. Lastly, I do apologize for coming off closed minded.  I never intended on that.  You know how difficult it is to try to glean a person's intent or mindset through typed words.  Lets find another casque guys Fox, how does it feel to be smited? Welcome to the club! My last word on this (I feel like I can not get my ideas across so that someone will take me seriously so that I can feel the warmth of team-work and companionship) topic: Its been going on for over twenty-six years.  WE ALL SUCK.  BYRON WINS. Now lets dig (dirt, not each other).

i have learned from the smite himself how to turn the other cheek mr trohn and am honored to be the first inductee into your club.

oops, should have said smite MASTER himself. my brain was working faster than my fingers.

fox wrote:: oops, should have said smite MASTER himself. my brain was working faster than my fingers. There are TOO many jokes in the short sentence to choose one to highlight. I'll leave it to the individual's dirty mind.

All it takes is a cunning linguist.  There, I said it.

and a master debater. .................................

If anyone digs and finds reg's body, please tell his parents.

Classic!

glad my secret indescretions could bring so much joy to these boards.

Glad mine didn't....

slappybuns wrote:: please animal painter check out the lion bridge!  the "proud" could be "pride" , like pride of lions,ok? please! I like the bridge too. Staying west .  Take the bridge as the center, on a map, draw a circle with a 100 pace radius and see where the verse will take you.

There is a technique called "clover leafing" used when a point whose location you don't know is near another point which you are starting at... Basically, you go out from the point at a given radius, like Boogie said, but then you turn left or right, go another set distance, and then return to the start.  You do this four or five times, and what you end up doing is covering ground like wheel spokes.  Incidentally, a compass would work famously because of the degree increments around the dial... The numbers could as easily be Long/Lat as any point that is less than a 90 degree angle... I noticed that some of the numbers were reversed from the way they were depicted, and that none of them go above 90 if reversed or read in the correct order...  Azimuths, in other words....

I posted this on my summation of Verse 8, I thought it would bump up the post but obviously I was wrong so I will post it again here where it will get seen. Just to recap, these are the things that I believe we still need to find the woman and the harpsichord the first young birch the three things you need to pass the letter from the country of wonderstones hearth the proud tall fifth AP may have found the letter from wonderstones hearth.  Could you give us some more details about where the tree is located?  Does it look like the tree in the fold of the woman's cape?  Does it have a southern foot?  Also, what program did you use to put the circle and the words on your pics?

Digger, The D tree is West of the multi-trunk tree...inside the woods line...not on the edge. I have to leave for work in minutes, but will post more photos of the tree later. The tree is indeed very tall, but it does not strike me as being exactly the same shape as the cape. I can't imagine why I did not see that gaping hole shaped like a D before! As I said, if you look through the "V" of the multi-trunk tree, you can see the D tree. (Depending on where you stand, you can see other trees, too. But I tried to stand in front of the multi-trunk tree to see it in the same perspective as in image 10. (Looking closely at image 10, I thought I saw a fifth tree trunk in the center of the multi-trunk tree image.) The program I used was Adobe Photoshop. AP

animal painter wrote:: I can't imagine why I did not see that gaping hole shaped like a D before! I've been right where you are referring to and I didn't see it either.  Great work.  BTW, no need to leave me a note this time.  I work in Saudi Arabia so it would be kind of a long commute for me.  Like everyone else I will just have to rely on your pics and descriptions. Excellent work

digger7 wrote:: I posted this on my summation of Verse 8, I thought it would bump up the post but obviously I was wrong so I will post it again here where it will get seen. Just to recap, these are the things that I believe we still need to find the woman and the harpsichord the first young birch the three things you need to pass the letter from the country of wonderstones hearth the proud tall fifth AP may have found the letter from wonderstones hearth.  Could you give us some more details about where the tree is located?  Does it look like the tree in the fold of the woman's cape?  Does it have a southern foot?  Also, what program did you use to put the circle and the words on your pics? This may be self serving and looking for things to fit our beliefs, but as I have always wondered why a tree would be called 'proud' only if he needed you to look at the fifth tall letter of that word for a clue....

digger, i always thought the woman with harpsichord was for marietta road. i recall reading where someone had seen the picture of "marietta playing a harpsichord" that was in someone's house  there around city hall, and since "three who lived there" were roads, i liked that idea. that's a neat play on the words, trohn. but if it's not around the tree w/ a D, dig around the lions

Milwaukee itself was also divided into three separate towns when it was founded: Juneautown, where Lake Park is more or less situated, Kilbournetown, which was the western side, and Walker's Point, in the Southern area.  Of course, this would make it seem that Preiss was saying to leave the city after walking through it's heart. I liked to think that Woman with Harpsichord Silently playing was the picture of Sarah Allis playing her piano, which is perched atop the steinway in her house (the Allis Art Museum)...

Last year,I called the Allis Art Museum and asked if they had any artwork which included any woman playing any keyboard instrument.  They said they did not.  I guess I should go and look for myself. AP

This has a UWM connection - but I don't think we can find if it had any significant precence in 1981 - just food for thought. Adelaide Banaszynski School for Piano Studies, The Saint Mary's Academy 3195 S. Superior St. Milwaukee 53207-3099

We also had the "Columbia/St Mary's" hospital at a distance from the Lake Park...but not too far...

Animal Painter,  The Image10 tree looks like it hides the jewel underneath it.  Trying to find out how long a fallen tree lasts before it rots completely, I found this: Old-growth forests have four main structures. - Big trees--The huge trees are the main "factories" of the old-growth forest, because the trees bring energy into the forest through photosynthesis. The trees are also storehouses. Each tree stores many tons of organic material and nutrients, which are eventually recycled back into the ecosystem. The big trees are also the source of the next two structures. - Large snags (standing dead trees)--The big trees die from tree diseases such as heart rot and root rot, or are killed by lightning strikes or insect damage, or their tops are broken off in a windstorm or snowstorm. Snags are used by many different kinds of wildlife, including pileated woodpeckers and spotted owls. - Large fallen trees on the forest floor--Fallen trees decay on the forest floor. It takes many decades for a fallen tree to decay completely . As the fallen trees decay, they become homes for many living creatures, including carpenter ants, folding-door spiders, centipedes, salamanders, and shrews. Mushrooms and other fungi grow on the rotting trees, and eventually the rotten trees turn into nurse logs, as young trees grow on top of them. Another question- How many little bridges can you pass in that revine?  Were there more in 82'? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/overboard/2279850960/ How long is the felled tree.  Is it lying north to south (southern foot)? edit:  my apologies.  you said there was only a trunk of a felled tree and not a full tree.  still think the Image10 tree has a jewel hidden under it though.

I braved the wicked-cold wind chills (below zero) after work today to get more photos.  New photos have been added to the D-tree album on webshots at: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/album/56 ... good-times I was looking for "3 things to pass".  There are 3 manhole covers on the sidewalk as you go North from the Ravine trail outlet to the multi-trunk tree. (photos included on webshots) There are also 3 lampposts...They are replacement poles...put up after 1982, when the Lincoln Memorial Drive was reconstructed in about 2000.) On the way to Lake Park,  by  the Lighthouse, I saw a life-sized Grecian statue of a woman...in the front yard of a house on the corner of Wahl and Bradford.  (The Lighthouse is on Wahl) I did not stop to see if she was playing a "harp". There is other statuary in the yards of the nearby  mansions/houses. What do you think? AP

While it is a relief to hear that Allis doesn't contain any artwork of women and/or baroque instruments (it may have been Villa Terrace I was thinking of), the picture I was referring to was a photograph, or maybe a copperplate.  You can BARELY see it in pics of the music room, but it is there, next to some sheet music.  If the treasure isn't beneath the tree (which is strongly possible, given what we've discussed so far), then it would have to be near it in soil that needs several characteristics to be probable: No trees near enough to present a problem with the roots, not close to any sort of stream, even an itinerant one, and easy to dig at least three feet down.  There should also be some sort of...marker, rather out of place amongst forests...  I mean, after 25 years, you'd have to be able to find it without saying "next to a tree in the woods."  In short, you are looking for a place that is 'hidden' enough not to pique the interest of a casual observer, but unique enough to recognize later, and in which it is possible to quickly dig a hole and hide something.  AP-- there is absolutely NO WAY I am disturbing the habitat of shrews, centipedes, salamanders, folding-door spiders (or spiders of any type), and/or carpenter ants.  I don't care if they don't live around here, if it is proven that a casque is beneath the rotted deadfall, then I am setting it on fire first.

Here is a great resource for being able to SEE  the Lake Park for yourself. Google has just made available, "Streetview" in some areas.  Lake Park, and all of Milwaukee, is totally viewable!  In your "search" box try typing in "Lake Park, Lincoln Memorial Drive, Milwaukee, WI" and when Google gives you a map, click on it and then click on "Streetview" up at the top.  You can see the lampposts for yourself!

animal painter - I just logged on to point out the very same thing! It's quite amazing. You can see many of the trees we've been talking about.

Forest,  You know what they say about great minds.... I just added 5 more photos to the webshots D Tree album. One thing I forgot to mention, was that I saw a yellow plastic ribbon tied to a short shrub right next to the D tree...Did BP tie it there in order to let searchers know they were indeed at the right tree if they contacted him? Scroll down on each photo at Webshots to see the captions which explain what they are. AP

here's an off the wall thought... does drinking affect the kidneys also? erastus b. wolcott made history as the first to remove a diseased kidney.........proud, tall fifth (of liquor).........: hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.com/explore/ ... atue.shtml

There are 4 features of the cape in image 10 that will probably be significant visual clues to denote an important "tree". Knowing that there could have been a good deal of artistic license taken in the execution of the painting from the photos, it is hard to say just how accurate the illustation of the similarities is. I like the fact that the "gouge" in the cape edge does seem to give the impression of a knothole.  There is a distinct "bump" on the outer edge. And one of the top "branches" at the "neck" on the cape, appears to be "sawed off" straight. The 4th feature is, of course, the "foot". You must admit, this does look like a tree. I should have put this under "Image 10" thread...but it could not be deleted...

If it makes you pee, it affects the kidneys.  A fifth is also 25.59 fl.oz, which I know from experience  that drinking all at once will affect every internal organ in the body.  Part of what the kidneys do, apart from filtering minerals, is to regulate the process of metabolizing gluscose, which would definitely include alcohol...

thanks typler , i was only half joking, because these are riddles, right? and he could have put the kidney and the fifth together, lol i just don't think he hid the casques under a tree (just my opinion guys, don't jump me!!). the two found ones were behind some monument, weren't they? even tho he  used trees to get to the site. and i love the D animal painter found, but i think it's just a pointer to the location, maybe. i found some great pictures of the lion bridge and (with my imagination)  i can see the profile of the lion at the end of the cloak on the right (in the image) here are some pictures: hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.com/images/e ... ion2LG.jpg his paws are great!! hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.com/images/e ... idgeLG.jpg hxxp://flickr.com/photos/35418314@N00/4 ... otostream/ the lion's mouth reminds me of the mouth in the image, so solemn, and look at the one of the lion facing east. i would concentrate on the lion bridges or erastus's statue

Slappy, As nice as it would be to be able to dig by the Lion Bridge, the verse just doesn't lead us there. The only other wall that is remotely possible to consider, is the wall that forms the base of the Grand Staircase. AP

AP, the word "proud" is what  leads me to the lion bridge...as in "a pride of lions" and how solemn the person is in the image and the lions have the same look and the profile of the lion at the end of the cloak but if you find it under the tree, then i'll be so happy for you, it won't bother me a bit to have been wrong it won't be the first time, lol

Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth hxxp://www.armystudyguide.com/content/a ... -to-.shtml Except for Typler, no one has said how they have determined the 100 paces.  If I may assume.... (uh oh), that after you pass the light house, you reach the end of the pipe in the revine under the bridge (pipe/culvert).  From there, you walk SE through the revine for 100 paces (about 300 feet) to the first young birch.  (walking over rock and soil, i assume once again, that you would be taking baby steps and cut the 300 to 150 feet or roughly 40 to 50 yds) Now, pass three?  Or have we passed three of whatever already within the 100 paces?  So now we have to also assume that the "D" tree is west of the path we have been walking SE on.  Animal Painter, are you suggesting that at the southern foot of this tree the casque is buried, or should I just stick to V10 and let you guys hash this out?  (;D just Boogie being Boogie again)

I don't remember this being mentioned before.... If you Google "tall fifth," you'll see that it is a common term for an overdrive gear. At least, that's what I deduced (I know nothing about cars!) I don't suppose that there is a proud overdrive gear sitting around Lake Park, but I thought I'd share it. Personally, I like the idea that the proud fifth is the "d"

Another possible interpretation: Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge ---PAUSE--- Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch---PAUSE---- Pass three, staying west Three what? Maybe it's BRIDGES. There are five large bridges in Lake Park. Four were designed by the same person. You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth Maybe Preiss meant the fifth BRIDGE. Proud can also mean conspicuous, prominent, or even swollen--bloated--protruding.  Maybe one of the bridges fits that description? Just pondering.

i thought it was an unwritten rule (i read this somewhere) that if you wrote a treasure hunt and used the word "pace" that somewhere you had to specify exactly how far it was.  does anyone know if BP did this in the book anywhere? myself, i find it interesting that the lighthouse was moved exactly "100 feet east" from where it first stood. hxxp://flickr.com/photos/10751862@N04/1 ... otostream/ boogieman i thought the whole point was for everyone to give their ideas and the hunters might get ideas from something we might say...that's what i'm hoping, that something i say might help. i would love to find the very thing someone needed to go find the casque, like johanns did..wasn't it johanns that found the names that pointed to the cleveland park? that would be such a cool thing. i wanna be a johanns

wow, i just looked up the word "fifth" in the thesaurus, and it's strange, look: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus - Cite This Source - Share This Main Entry:  enemy Part of Speech:  noun Definition:  foe Synonyms:  adversary, agent, antagonist, archenemy, asperser, assailant, assassin, attacker, backbiter, bad guy, bandit, betrayer, calumniator, competitor, contender, criminal, crip, defamer, defiler, detractor, disputant, emulator, falsifier, fifth column*, foe, guerrilla, informer, inquisitor, invader, meat, murderer, opponent, opposition, other side*, prosecutor, rebel, revolutionary, rival, saboteur, seditionist, slanderer, spy, terrorist, traducer, traitor, vilifier, villain Antonyms:  ally, benefactor, friend, supporter, i like "other side", "fifth column"....but is there some bandit in lake park? i'd of never thought of these meanings the dictionary mentioned the gear shift also,  shseverin, your mentioning that made me look it up.

Slappy, Boogie and Shecrab, I am open to the idea that the Proud Tall Fifth could be one of the bridges in Lake Park.  So, thinking in that direction, I went back to photos of the bases of the two Lion Bridges. If we thought it was challenging to find a plexiglas box at the foot of a tree...then looking at the foot of a bridge is a "monumental" endeavor. These bridges are at least 20 ft. wide... If you " pass the compass and reach the foot of the culvert ", you could be under either the South Lion Bridge or the North Lion Bridge... depending on which trail you took.  You have to pass the lighthouse to get to the West end (beginning) of either trail. Below the bridge, walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil I know that it is 100 normal steps from below the North Lion bridge to the East end of the Northern Ravine trail.  It takes you in a Southeasterly direction and it is over steps made of rocks separated by dirt The distance from the South Lion Bridge to the East end of the South Ravine trail, is not quite 100 normal steps. It also goes in a Southeasterly direction, but the steps are made of wooden timbers separated by dirt. If you look for a young birch at the end of either trail, it appears that the Northern Ravine trail has a tree about the right age and is "brichy" looking. The Southern Ravine trail may have had a young birch at some time, but it is not obviously visible now. Here comes the tricky part.... Pass three, staying west 1.  If you head West from the Southern Ravine exit, you would be headed up a very wooded steep hill to get up to the Southern end of the South Lion Bridge. (I do not know if it would be considered the foot.) If you stay on the West...or left side of the grassy area at the end of the Southern Ravine trail, moving Northeast, you would reach the Northern Ravine trail exit... There are 3 bridges from the Eastern end of the Northern Ravine trail to the North Lion Bridge (taking you in a North west erly direction. 2. If you leave the Northern Ravine trail exit and stay West, it will take you to the Southern Ravine trail exit...and West to the South Lion Bridge. I do not think that there are any bridges on that South Ravine trail before you get to the South Lion Bridge. I have not seen any letters on either Lion bridge yet. Here is the link to photos of the Lion Bridges/bases hxxp://tinyurl.com/3akr7k They were taken last July. They may seem confusing, but you can get the idea of what they look like. From frozen (9 degrees) Milwaukee. AP Just for the record...BOTH trails, as of today...are solid ice...and could be used for Olympic toboggan-runs!

AP, those are great pictures! how long before things defrost up there? i hope you have one of those poking things that others have used.  if you do poke around the lions, don't poke  past the 5th columns on the bridges, from either end or side are they called south and north lion bridges?

Slappy, Spring thaw is about a month away, if we are lucky... By May, for sure. (leaves show up about the second week in May.) I called them North and South bridge, only for the purpose of identification. Where do you see the profile of the Lion at the end of the cape? AP

Hmmmm.....okay, that worked!---assuming that perhaps it IS one of the bridges... Then the "letter from wonderstone's hearth" is the next puzzle. If "wonderstone" is amethyst, and amethyst is German, then a "German letter" is what you are looking for. The only distinctive German letter I know of is: ß called es-zett or scharfes S (sharp s) which looks like two cursive f's together. A decorative element could conceivably have this shape, such as a double-scroll on the end of a railing or something like that. I also thought about two lions = two lines = L or T or X, etc... (made of two lines) but I do not think Preiss would have been that obscure. It's not as strong a connection to me, anyway. All of the letters made with two lines could be used as part of structures, yet somehow I'm just not convinced that's what it means. The knothole was a great idea--yet I wonder if it was there or as distinctive 30 years ago. Ditto for the G.

AP, see where the cloak comes from her neck to our right? at the very end of the cloak, i guess i should have said a silhouette of the lion, the dark shadow at the very end of the cloak, underneath the blue part and to the right. the lions are so distinctive and i love their paws, so maybe i'm just imagining it. ( i tend to do that ) i don't think it matches the coast line, do you? or .. do you?

She, The knothole looks like it is old enough to have been there in 1982. Another thing is the multi-trunk tree. Why put a painting of that in the image if you do not go in that direction or even see it...when you're stopping at the bridges... As for a letter on the bridge...the "X" cross brace was immediately evident. Slappy, I will have to take a closer look at the cape and get back to you. Thanks for the ideas... AP

Unknown: Another thing is the multi-trunk tree. Why put a painting of that in the image if you do not go in that direction or even see it...when you're stopping at the bridges... True enough, yet JPP put the image of the fountain in the Cleveland painting twice, yet it was only peripherally involved in the solution--viz., letting you know you were in the right area. So no doubt it is important to identifying the area, but how involved is it in the actual casque location? Dunno. Another interp of "letter from Wonderstone's hearth"-- W O N D E R S T O N E S H E A R T H ---could be any of these letters. Shades of "Mad Mad Mad MAd world" and the giant W?  or maybe W on der Stone's Heart H? Just brainstorming.

She, You, and other recent posters, definitely bring many new ideas to this "table". Thanks

ck mentioning that german letter, s sharp, made me remember that another definition for "fifth" was in music. see, how someone saying something sparks something, lol. it's just another thing to keep in mind i just noticed another silhouette of the lion on the left side of the cloak, follow the material down, close to the left border of the page. am i forcing it or does anyone else see it? in this postcard  look how close the lighthouse is to the lion bridge, could the shape behind the lady be the lighthouse? hxxp://flickr.com/photos/orchardlake/611458124/

Slappy, Here is proof positive that the buildings behind the figure are indeed Milwaukee's City Hall. hxxp://thesecret.pbwiki.com/10_LM I have added 2 photos to the Webshots album of the Lion Bridges to show you just how close the they are to the Lighthouse... literally...a stone's throw. Keep "thinking outside the box"  and sharing your "free associations". AP

AP, i had no doubt that was city hall at the top of the picture. i  meant the impression of the hill  behind the lady being an outline of the lighthouse.

Slappy, Sorry I see the hill at the extreme left that you are referring to. AP

There is a statue of Lief Eriksson in Lake Park. I don't know how close a viking comes to the definition of an adversary, although they did enjoy their attempts to capture slaves, which the natives fought by biting their tongues off, thereby comitting suicide...

AP, would the lion bridge be the 5th bridge? shecrab  mentioned there being 5 bridges and that's the only thing I can find that lake park has a "5"with. maybe it's just the 5th bridge at the southern foot, like shecrab  said. sorry to keep bugging you

Slappy, I keep trying to make the verse be able to fit that idea. When it warms up, (when the ice has melted enough that I can use the Ravine trails) I will be looking around the bases of the bridges for "a letter" and for a distinctive tree to be the verifying markers... (as well as looking at the D-tree area.) If the casque is still buried, it will be found. AP

What if , when you walk the 100 paces and come out on to LMD...you see the first young birch ("a young tree") and then see three ("a group of three more trees") to the Southwest...you pass them keep staying West up the South Ravine to the Proud Tall Fifth (bridge).  All that is lacking, is the letter from the country of the wonderstone's hearth . When the ice melts from the ravines, I am going to search for a letter on the bridge. As for the blue amethyst...BP refers to it in the "litany of jewels" Dwarves' treasure: purple amethyst, Imperial star of Germany As far as I can see, there are no purple jewels in any of the images. If you have to choose a country for Milwaukee, It HAS to be Germany! That settles it for me.

Sorry I haven't been as active as before, everyone, I just got a new job whose hours are insane.  Anyway: AP if you are completely and totally serious about digging smewhere, and are planning to take a day to do so, then I have a spot I would like you to check for me: 150 feet southeast of the eastern end of the concrete footbridge.  If you are not at the corner of Ravine and LMD, you've either come up short, or gone too far.  The spot in question is on the park side of a giant bush, where two sidewalks come to a point.  If this pic is any good, it will give you the exact area I am referring to.  You don't have to dig if you don't want to, but this is definitely a sweet spot (you don't have to trust my judgement, but I think I found some definites for this location).  Incidentally, all of the other spots discussed on the forum are well within a mile of each other.

Sorry, forgot to attach this:

That's an awfully big area to dig. Is there something in the verse or painting to narrow it down to a square yard or so?

give animal painter some specifics and i would be willing to bet she would dig. could this be treasure number three, i sure hope so

I think I have found the tree-in-the-cape!! I spent my lunch hour at Lake Park today... taking along my steel rod and a hammer. Everything is still covered in inches of ice and snow...But I was able to navigate using the rod as a hiking stick...and not falling too many times... When I saw the "tree"...I had this absolute, positive, 100% sure gut feeling of certainty... But even with my hammer and rod, I could not begin to penetrate the ice and frozen ground that covers all of the area. I did go to the Lake Park Office and get written permission to dig...when the ice melts and the ground thaws out. There is still the need to pinpoint the spot where BP buried the casque, but I am most absolutely certain that the Milwaukee casque will be unearthed in 2008! AP Notice that the top left limb is sawn off.

This is the ravine trail today...

As for the letter from the country of the wonderstone's hearth on the proud tall fifth ... I took a page from Shecrab's book and looked at the puzzle with extreme "obviousness". "m" from Germany. (not really convinced of this being the letter..) AP

Hey, great pics AP.  No question you are in the right area.  Is it possible BP cut that tree?  How old does the sawn off part look in person? How did you come up with "M"?  Not questioning, just asking.

boogieman wrote:: Hey, great pics AP.  No question you are in the right area.  Is it possible BP cut that tree?  How old does the sawn off part look in person? How did you come up with "M"?  Not questioning, just asking. Boogie, I personally do not think that BP cut that tree. It would not have been in keeping with his love of nature.  I have more photos and will look for one that shows the cut end more clearly. There is a sawn stump a few feet from the cape-tree. There are cut pieces under the snow. But the sawn limb of the cape tree looks to be older. I am not as thoroughly convinced about the "letter". But here is what I am looking at to make the link. AP

Boogie, Here is a look at the sawn limb of the cape-tree from on top of the bridge. Does it look older to you? AP

Kuh-Lai-Bah-Ti wrote:: Sorry I haven't been as active as before, everyone, I just got a new job whose hours are insane.  Anyway: AP if you are completely and totally serious about digging smewhere, and are planning to take a day to do so, then I have a spot I would like you to check for me: 150 feet southeast of the eastern end of the concrete footbridge.  If you are not at the corner of Ravine and LMD, you've either come up short, or gone too far.  The spot in question is on the park side of a giant bush, where two sidewalks come to a point.  If this pic is any good, it will give you the exact area I am referring to.  You don't have to dig if you don't want to, but this is definitely a sweet spot (you don't have to trust my judgement, but I think I found some definites for this location).  Incidentally, all of the other spots discussed on the forum are well within a mile of each other. KLBT, I just saw your post about the area by Ravine Rd. If you want me to take a closer look and photos, I can do that, too.  For now, digging would take a back hoe! BP seems to have been "all over the map" in Lake Park! AP

The area I've specified is not terribly big from street view.  I'd say try between the bush and the hill's slope... Near some sort of tree, just about where the woods end...

it sure sounds promising. i just wish i was on a computer instead of my cell phone so i could see the cape tree. is it as perfect a match as everyone says it is? come on snow melt, so AP can dig up number three!

Good luck to you, AP!!! I hope it works this time!!

Fox, It is a perfect match for the cape-tree! The next question is...what is the southern foot?  Is there a universal definition of a "southern foot" of a bridge? The entire base on that end of the bridge is probably considered the "foot" of the bridge. And it is the southern-most end of the bridge. But it has 4 sides. The southern-most side is at the top of the bridge where the lions are located. Would BP dig out in the open, right in front of the lion pedestal? Looking at the image of the cape tree, BP would be down in the ravine to get that perspective. The Westerly face of the base (the side of the tree) is very steep and full of the roots of the cape tree. The Northern-most face of the base is directly under the bridge...one of the most likely sites. The Southeasterly face is also a steep grade. When the ground thaws out, I will do prodding with the steel rod around the perimeter. There is also the possibility that BP could be referring to the other base of the bridge. It has its most southern face directly under the bridge. So many areas... AP

On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits. The words say ON a PTF... ON. Not under, or near--so I would assume that ON means ON. And that would mean where the lion was.  I don't think BP would have had any qualms about digging in the open, but could he have? Is the ground conducive to it there? Bridges are usually built with a lot of concrete foundation under and around their terminal ends. We already discussed the difficulty of digging at the base of any tree--even a small one--and how difficult that is. So I'm wondering. AP--is there any way to take more pictures of the lions and the area surrounding them? (We're working you to death, aren't we!)

She, I guess I had been connecting the line: "You will see a letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth" to the line: "On a proud, tall fifth" And then going on to connect the last two lines: "At its southern foot" "The treasure awaits" But, having been wrong in the past, I am definitely open to other ideas! I will post photos of the lions later today. AP

animal painter wrote:: Fox, It is a perfect match for the cape-tree! but was it a match twenty years ago?  I can't believe the tree hasn't grown or changed in all this time.  (but of course this doesn't mean it isn't so, just that i'll be amazed -- how long did "Treasure: In Search of the Golden Horse" remain unsolved?  The map for that one involved trees.)

Catherwood, It still may be a match...only slightly taller and bigger... AP

this is getting so exciting! good luck AP!

AP, that is a huge find. Congratulations, I can hardly wait until you unearth the next casque. Again, Congratulations and good luck

Unknown: how long did "Treasure: In Search of the Golden Horse" remain unsolved?  The map for that one involved trees.) Only about 3 years, actually. I think the guys who solved it did so shortly after the deadline had passed.

The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth A reminder AP,  Egbert and his buddy toiled for what, 7 hours deciphering V4.  This one may take you longer.  I hope not.  It's tough doing it from here, I can tell you that!  But we all want to help while trying not to hinder. Just trying to orient myself here.  Where is the culvert compared to the "cape tree"?  And what bridge are we walking 100 paces from?  I'm guessing that digger's culvert is under a different bridge than our M bridge.

Boogie, Your help is greatly appreciated.  All ideas as to how to approach this are welcome. Here is a photo to show you the location of the cape-tree in relationship to the ravine (culvert). The ground on the side of the "m" bridge is very steep. (The "m" bridge is the South Lion bridge.) The wood-railed-foot-bridge that you see in the lower left is at the bottom of the ravine (culvert) which runs underneath the m-bridge. The 100 paces are taken under the North Lion Bridge.

Shecrab, Here is a photo of the base of the Lion nearest to the cape tree.  As you can see, it is in sad shape. I cannot tell what is around the base, because the ice is too thick to break through. You can also see the steepness of the ground leading down to the ravine. (where the wood rail bridge is) BP took the easy route to the North Lion bridge base, by entering the other ravine at the West end, where many steps take you down under the bridges gradually. AP

Oh, very very cool, AP!!! Thanks for that pic, it cleared up the whole thing for me.... Now... WHICH one of the lion's FEET is nearest the south or pointing to the south?  I think he may have meant at it's LITERALLY southern FOOT! That cape tree--I had no idea it was right there. I agree, you've nailed it. Nice job!! The lion bridge makes perfect sense: PROUD = Pride (of lions, like Slappy said!) Tall fifth = tall fifth bridge Southern foot = the southern foot of the lion itself So to my way of thinking the verse should read: Pass three, staying west. (Period) You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth. (PERIOD to end the sentence here!) On a proud, tall fifth(comma) At its southern foot(comma) The treasure awaits. That's how I am reading it, and it just seems that what you've found confirms it! I can't wait for the thaw!

AP, If you DO hit something with your probe, may I suggest wiggling it back and forth, to sort of scrape the surface of what you're touching-- You should notice a  vast difference  between ordinary tree roots, big rocks, and plastic... The "hollow" sound can be very misleading as Egbert ran into trouble with that concept.

Thanks for the input! I am so eager to dig... but we are still under ice and snow. "Patience is a virtue, posses it if you can. Seldom found in woman, and never found in man." (just teasing, guys...) AP

animal painter wrote:: Here is a photo to show you the location of the cape-tree in relationship to the ravine (culvert). The ground on the side of the "m" bridge is very steep. (The "m" bridge is the South Lion bridge.) The wood-railed-foot-bridge that you see in the lower left is at the bottom of the ravine (culvert) which runs underneath the m-bridge. The 100 paces are taken under the North Lion Bridge. Heck of a job!  Thanks for the info.  I hope you have lots of help.  It looks pretty steep, but I don't think the casque could have shifted downhill too far.  Dig sideways into the mountain. (and hurry up. )

'"Men have zero patience," A woman once said to me, No snow between the Bed and Stove, Is why women never ski!' I am JUST KIDDING also!  I made that up as a retort to your insulting poetry AP! (I'm not insulted, nor am I sexist, so please don't take offense in any way! If anyone IS offended, let me apologize for doing so.

KLBT, I just put three photos of the area of Ravine Rd and LMD on the webshots album...at: hxxp://tinyurl.com/3akr7k It was getting dark when I took them, so they are not as detailed as they should be. I can go back this weekend. What leads you to this area? I see a tree at the left that has a somewhat similar configuration to the tree in the cape. AP

Huh... I never noticed that...  No, nothing special about it... It's just that in all of the places people have suggested to dig, it's the only one nearby that has flat ground, no root systems (except that bush), is on LMD, and is behind something large and proliferate.

I just made an album of close-up photos of the two Lion pedestal bases on the Southern bridge by the cape-tree. Any comments, opinions or observations are welcome. In the photos, I refer to the "West Base" as the Lion base nearest the cape-tree...It is the most westerly of the two bases.  The "East Base" is the companion base which is the more "south-easterly" of the two bases. When BP guided us with the 100 paces he used an exact direction... Southeas t ...as if he had a compass with him.  If that is the case, then when he said the treasure was waiting at the southern foot , he probably had his compass out and was trying to be just as exact. AP Here is the link to webshots: hxxp://tinyurl.com/3ylmxw

Looks terrific! Looks like no matter how you slice it, there will be some heavy tree roots to deal with, unless you don't stay west and dig on the east side of the base.  Along with a shovel, you may need a small hand saw or a sharp small axe.

Okay.... so... what?  are you saying it is on the hillside or at the base of a pedestal?  Or are you saying that I'm wrong?  I'm not being argumentative or anything, I just want to know what you are trying to say...  I mean, the verse says a lot of things in the way of directions...

KLBT, No one is right and no one is wrong until someone finds a casque. You said yourself that there was nothing in particular that leads you to your area except that it is flat.  Are there any other clues from the verse or image to designate your location? I have looked in more than one place, have gone in several directions, trying to use the clues and images, and have not found anything yet. But this last solution feels "more right" than any of my previous attempts. I will start at the pedestals and go around the rest of the bridge before giving up on this location. AP

What would be interesting is for those who have been there, and dug before, to chime in with some thoughts.  Those memories could be key for finding the X spot.  Maybe...

coupla questions AP, Is the cape tree in what on Shadowrunner's map was called Ravine#2?  Or, in other words, the Ravine that has the tree that FB dug at?  The tree that up till now we were referring to as the Proud Tall Fifth? Is the cape tree on the left or right side of the ravine(as you go move away from LMD and toward the lighthouse)? Is the cape tree before or after you pass under the Lion's Head Bridge? How far from the bridge is the cape tree? How far up the slope is the cape tree? How many lions are there in total on the two bridges? AP, this is great fun, thanks for bringing us all along for the ride. Just wanted to mention something that I noticed from the pictures.  For those who haven't been there, it is easy to misjudge the steepness of the slope of the ravines.  They are REALLY steep.  If you were to dig there you would probably have to tie yourself to a tree in order to avoid tumbling down the slope.  AP, I'm not complaining about the pics they are great but just wanted to point that out to those who haven't been there.

digger7 wrote:: coupla questions AP, Is the cape tree in what on Shadowrunner's map was called Ravine#2?  Or, in other words, the Ravine that has the tree that FB dug at?  The tree that up till now we were referring to as the Proud Tall Fifth? digger7 wrote:: Is the cape tree on the left or right side of the ravine(as you go move away from LMD and toward the lighthouse)? Is the cape tree before or after you pass under the Lion's Head Bridge? digger7 wrote:: How far from the bridge is the cape tree? How far up the slope is the cape tree? digger7 wrote:: How many lions are there in total on the two bridges? Yes, it is in the south-most ravine that leads down to LMD where Forest-and-friends dug. As you walk from LMD toward the Lighthouse, the tree is past the bridge on the left side. The tree is 3-4 feet from the side of the bridge and 3-4 feet from the top of the slope. There are 8 lion sculptures...2 at each end of each bridge. Digger, it seems like the only place near a lion pedestal that would be semi-hidden for BP to dig unseen, is the area just behind the pedestal-wall-foundation.  Otherwise, the very base of the bridge, (under the bridge) would afford more "cover" for him. You are right about the steepness of the slope.  If it were not for the snow and my steel rod, I would have slid down to the ravine several times! Glad you are "in on the hunt"... AP

I just added more photos to the "Cape Tree" album on webshots: hxxp://tinyurl.com/3ylmxw The last two photos are for Slappy...of the Lion...and the sculptor's signature. It looks like someone at sometime colored the lion's eyes blue. The lion's countenance does have great similarity to the woman in image 10. Just a note for those who like trivia... Paul Kupper is credited as the "sculptor"of the lions, but Otto Lachmund is credited as the "carver". (I always like to see credit given where it is due...) hxxp://tinyurl.com/2up5f2 AP

AP check right uder the lions'  foot too, ok? (or feets, lol) not just on the side, maybe you have to find the southern most  lion and then his foot. still playing with words i love how that cut tree is right there! great pictures! i am so excited for you, i sure hope it's around there somewhere!

It wasn't just that it was flat, it was also behind a large-ish something, and is right next to LMD.  Also, it's approximately 100 average-step paces from the underside of a bridge.  Granted, that bush may not have been quite as large back then, but it is big enough to suggest that it's been there awhile.

Slappy, I will surely check "at their southern feet". Yesterday, I was able to go and check on the thawing status of the ground at Lake Park. It was 25 degrees, and the surface had frozen again. (Moving toward Spring in Milwaukee is like "taking two steps forward and three steps back...") I did learn an interesting and possibly important fact. P Kupper designed two different lion sculptures. At each end of each bridge, there are two distinct lions. One faces to the left and one faces to the right. The woman in image 10 is facing to the right. If she signifies a particular lion. then BP chose the lion on the East. If not, then JPP chose the lion whose face he liked better to paint in image 10. AP

KLBT, Your last message came in just as I was leaving for work. I did take some better photos of the area at Ravine Rd., but will not be able to put them up on webshots until later this evening. AP

I find this fascinating: It may not be a locust after all....(don't laugh at my quasi-photo-shop skills, which are nonexistent at best. I think you get the idea.)

Shecrab, I like the way you think! AP

Thanks!!

KLBT, Here is a link to a webshots album with pictures of the Ravine Rd. area. They are in a panoramic order from left to right. AP hxxp://tinyurl.com/32zaxe

Any clue as to what that sawhorse is there for?

KLBT, I  think they have been there for a long, long time. They do not appear to be covering a hole or dangerous area. It is a convenient place to store them, for when they want to close-off Ravine Rd. AP

read smiley518's comment on this picture of the lion's bridge: "Beautiful lighting, John! I like how the lion's mane drapes over it like a hood against the cold. : ) " hxxp://flickr.com/photos/johndecember/2252994903/ our lady has a hood also. forest......um, you've been quiet on this....haven't you been there?

Slappy, that is an excellent point!! I loved those pictures. I didn't know there were 8 lions--I thought only 4. And AP, nice photos of the Ravine Road corner!!  Thirty years ago there would have been almost no trees in that area--those are young trees, not old ones.

Tree info I've been trying to look up how much trees actually grow in thirty years, and whether or not they might look significantly different. Fact is, they wouldn't. This will definitely work to our advantage with this puzzle!! From research I did, I found that most trees have an initial growth period where they might double their height and girth. This usually occurs in the first 10-12 years. After that, the tree will not add more than, say, 6 to 7 inches in girth and 10 feet or so in height in the next thirty years. If the tree is 'shaped' oddly in, say, 1981, it will continue to recognizably keep that odd shape in 2001! That means that if BP used unusual trees as markers to bury casques, it is very likely that unless the trees died completely and were taken out, cut down, etc., the trees he used would be recognizable now. They will be taller, but not significantly fatter. It is not easy to tell the exact age of a tree unless you count the growth rings, or you are a botanist and can use formulas for growth rates in twigs.  But you can estimate. To measure tree age by its circumference, you take the measurement at about chest level. A 40-year-old oak or poplar tree will have a circumference of about 12 to 18 feet. Height is more indicative of age than girth--so if the tree is planted as a 10' sapling in 2000, in 2010 it will be 20 feet tall, then growth upward will begin to slow down; the tree may only add half a foot each year for the next 10 years--this number will steadily drop, though never completely stop until the tree dies. This is actually good news for us. If a tree is pictured in the painting and it was a mature tree to begin with , then we can pretty much count on that tree looking like the painting, even after all this time! But the undergrowth will be a different story altogether. The bigger trees pictured in the ravine road area and the lion bridges are probably not much different than when BP saw them while burying the casque. Their roots will be wider-spread, however...so even if he picked a place where tree roots didnt' seem to be a problem THEN, they may be now. It would be useful to find out from park administrators if any of the trees that are there now were there then. Then, a more accurate picture of the area could be formulated.

thank you ck that guy has some great photos.  i liked the one he took of the lion bridge from the lighthouse, but the ones he took of the lighthouse in the snow were beautiful!

Unknown: forest......um, you've been quiet on this....haven't you been there? Yes, I've been to Lake Park, but not to some of the places AP and KLBT are describing. So I have just been sitting back and enjoying the banter. I may weigh in if I spot something no one's noticed yet.

It's "Good Friday", and in Milwaukee, it is snowing...again. Forecast is for 6 inches...snowing until 10:00 tonight... then again on Easter Sunday. This effectively puts the Kai-Bosch on my searching, probing or digging at Lake Park this weekend I did go to the park for an hour yesterday to take another look at the trees in the South Ravine, (still not completely convinced about the letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth on a proud tall fifth being an "m" on the bridge framework. ) I scrutinized every existing tree on either side of the ravine, looking for "a letter" of any sort....no luck....but I did find a tree that had succumbed to the the ravages of this Milwaukee winter and had fallen across the Ravine trail. AP Good Friday update...Noon: (Forget the 6-inches of snow forecast...we have already received 12 inches in 5 hours...with 10 hours left to snow! Lake Park will be under snow for a loooong time!) 3:00 update: The snow is now over my knees!...at least 20"

i was just looking at the lions again in this picture: hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/explore/ ... dges.shtml in the last picture, it looks like grass where the lions are, and i was thinking....... southern foot.............south paw................left the lion's left foot which woulld mean not at the bottom of the bridge but right there in the grassy area, base of the lion or, any of the lions left feet

Also, a group of lions is called a pride , so maybe a single lion could be called proud .

Jimerson, This does make sense. If the "letter" on the proud tall 5th were obvious, it would be a slam-dunk. Slappy, I have probed around the bases of the lions and have not yet found a "plastic" sound. Still pursuing the Girl Scout markers on trees that may have existed in 1982. My conversation with the Milwaukee County landscape architect on Sunday has led me to the woman who actually created the Girl Scout trail... (She has no photos herself) And she has led me to a woman who keeps in touch with other Girl Scout Leaders of that decade, who were also involved.... Those leaders (who are now in their 60's and 70's) are having a gathering this Saturday...in which they will be asked if they have any photos of the Lake Park area of the trail from the 70's and 80's. It is definitely a world of "connections". AP

I am sure you have done this several times before but you should try following the verse from begining to end and see the location you end up. What we need and I do not know if it exists or if we could get one is a metal detecter type of item that could penatrate the ground and show you what is under ground that is not metal. Such a thing would be useful for here Houston and San Fransisco.

Scottrocks, That was my thinking, too. So I did just that.  Walked the whole path! I have used a hobby-grade metal detector (not ground penetrating radar) as recently as last weekend.  It goes off at the base of almost every potential tree.... So I dug 6-inch diameter holes by 3 different trees....I dug until I hit stone... I believe the only way to be more definite in digging is to find photos that showed what BP saw.  That is why I am pursuing the Girl Scouts Leaders and hopefully their personal photo albums. Thanks for your input! AP

In trying to make sense of the words "proud tall"...I Googled them.. and found the words "proud tall" used in reference to the chestnut tree (recently saved from destruction) written about in "The Diary of Anne Frank". I do not know if it is just the author of the article using those words, or if it is quoting from Anne Frank's own words. hxxp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/no ... ndworldwar Does anyone have a copy of that book ...? Apparently, Anne Frank made several references to this tree. I do not know if she used the descriptives..."proud tall" in her diary. As a literary man, BP may have given us a literary reference to the type of tree that we should look for. (chestnut or horse chestnut?) The pamphlet, "Lake Park Trees" says that there are several "horse chestnut" trees in the park, planted in the early years...That would make them proud and tall by now! I wonder if any of the trees in the South ravine are (or were ) chestnut trees? AP

You know AP, perhaps the proud tall fifth is the largest and/or oldest chestnut tree in the park.  With all your contacts there, maybe a simple inquery about it could solve this thing for you (and us).

animal_painter, i love reading all your research and pictures for the park.  sorry i have not had any input, i just got stuck, it seemed it had to be the lion bridges. plus, not having much time anymore, it's hard to focus on one image or verse.  and somehow i miss some posts even when i think i've caught up going over the verse again i think we all agree up to "after climbing the grand 200" then it gets murky. the part "southeast over rock and soil" makes me think of the indian mounds, but that would be going opposite of the lion bridges. but then "pass the compass" could mean "circle around"...........i think but maybe that is for "the meadow" or the "golf course", except i don't think of rocks being in meadows... synonyms for meadow are:  greens, range, field which makes me think of the bowling greens and the greens on the golf course. isn't one of the girl scout markers near there? maybe it's just the 5th tree from the bowling greens or golf course. the only other thing i've thought about is in the cloak, that could be the lighthouse on the far right, not sure what that dark indention is meant to portray....but now boogieman has me seeing letters in the cloak like in image 12 just for laughs...when i say rock and soil several times, i think of rock and roll....music, don't they have concerts in the meadow?

slappybuns wrote:: the only other thing i've thought about is in the cloak, that could be the lighthouse on the far right, not sure what that dark indention is meant to portray....but now boogieman has me seeing letters in the cloak like in image 12   ;D Hey, don't blame me!!  JJP is the one who painted them.

I've been thinking about this verse and can't get the woman and the harpsichord out of my head so I will take another stab at an interpretation.  I think the woman and the harpsichord are different clues. View the three stories of Mitchell The Mitchell Hall building at the corner of Downer and Kenwood Blvd. As you walk the beating of the world A reference to the synagogue that was across the street from Mitchell Hall. At a distance in time From three who lived there A reference to N. Downer Ave., N. Hackett Ave., and N. Sheppard Ave which were all named for people who lived in Milwaukee and which cross Kenwood Blvd. At a distance in space From woman, I think this just refers to the last street (Marietta Ave.) you have to cross before you get to Lake Park.  So as you view Mitchell Hall you have to pass 3 streets (named for people who lived in Milwaukee) that are a temporal distance from you and one street (named for a woman) that is a spatial distance from you. This doesn't help us locate the casque but I think it narrows down the location where we might find the silent harpsichord.  As all the clues(as far as we know) are in order it would put the harpsichord somewhere between Marietta Ave and the Grand Staircase.  And as I think the next lines go together I think the silent harpsichord will be in the park. with harpsichord Silently playing Step on nature Cast in copper One should enter the park (step on nature) on LMD (cast in copper) while looking for a silent harpsichord Anyway just a thought....

Wikipedia: "The only painting that can be conclusively attributed to Marietta Robusti is her Self Portrait (c. 1580; Uffizi Gallery, Florence). This portrait depicts Marietta posed before a harpsichord , holding a musical text that has been identified as a madrigal by Philippe Verdelot, 'Madonna per voi ardo'."

Great armchair-treasure-hunting.... Love the painting....It keeps us right in the Lake Park vicinity. AP

hi ap is this the same ravine you are looking in or near Waterfall Ravine Restoration....... hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/

cw0909, The Waterfall Ravine is the one near the soccer field by the other Girl Scout Tree.  The other end of it is directly off the parking lot up by golf course/pavilion. AP

digger7 wrote:: As you walk the beating of the world A reference to the synagogue that was across the street from Mitchell Hall. I really like your ideas on these clues, but could you clarify for me this reference, how is a synagogue like the beating of the world? I do like your street references that makes sense to me...

It comes from an obscure web page listing an obscure candle-lighting ceremony from a synagogue in Westport, CN: hxxp://www.humanisticjews.org/Shabbat_files/community_shabbat_welcome_2.htm

forest_blight wrote:: It comes from an obscure web page listing an obscure candle-lighting ceremony from a synagogue in Westport, CN: emphasis on obscure

Obscure to me, Im not Jewish, but it makes total sense to me now. Thanks for clearing up one of the more frustrating(for me) clues in the book. I always figured that one would make sense, if you were on the ground looking...

forest_blight wrote:: Wikipedia: "The only painting that can be conclusively attributed to Marietta Robusti is her Self Portrait (c. 1580; Uffizi Gallery, Florence). This portrait depicts Marietta posed before a harpsichord , holding a musical text that has been identified as a madrigal by Philippe Verdelot, 'Madonna per voi ardo'." This is excellent work FB, but can we link this Marietta to Milwaukee somehow?

I think the link to the candle-lighting ceremony is extremely tenuous. First, there is the fact that the wording is of indeterminate age (maybe post-1981), and appears in only one online source, associated with a single synagogue far, far away from Milwaukee. Then there is the problem that the verse says As you walk the beating of the world . I don't see how walking down the street in front of a building associated with Judaism qualifies as "walking the beating of the world." If the street itself somehow fit the clue, fine -- but it doesn't. I have no evidence for this, but I suspect it is more word-play along the lines of Cast in copper and compass . As for the Marietta link, we don't need to link her to Milwaukee. It suffices that there is a Marietta Ave. between Mitchell Hall and Lake Park.

true it is tenuous, but so far is the best explanation I have heard perhaps it is more obvious if you are jewish, is it possibly a common jewish idiom? perhaps we need to speak with a rabbi...

I am not as concerned with what the first few lines mean as long as we find the correct culvert. I know you have went through the verse in the park several times but you should try again from the culvert. If you end up back at the tree with the G on it then you have likely found the right spot. All treesd would be bigger then they were in the early '80s. I think you should focus on the G tree and imediate are around it. Two things I would focus on and they have likely been looked at before is when was the retaining wall built and how much ivy/undergrowth was in the area at that time. Your present day photos look like they have an excessive maount of ivy and undergrowth. Next find out what you can about how the retaining wall was constructed. It is possible a construction crew dug it up and did not know what it was. This could help us know if we got the right spot. On my own I will look not spacificly for this hunt but in general at what sort of ground rader is avalable and if any may be useful to finding these casques.

So how do you know you have the right culvert if you don't definitively solve the first clues. Basically you are hoping you have the right culvert and then trying to make the rest of the clues fit the location. Working from Verse 7 in GG park I would rate my percentage of sureness like this. From Stone walls door = Less the 1% - cant find a stone wall with a door... The Air Smells sweet... 90%  excellent fit with the conservatory of flowers .... nearby high points are 3 90% excellent fit with Sutro Tower ... Aces high but first across, 80% fit with highway 1 and crossover drive and the location of prayerbook cross etc. etc. all of the latter clues but one are excellent fits.  but there is that darn fact that when I dig a hole there is no casque at the bottom of it. So all my clues while great fits dont lead to the casque.  I really really want to ignore that first one and just jump into the middle of the verse. unfortuately it didnt work, so now I am going back to the beginning, and as good as all the other clues fit. If I cant figure out that first one, I am going to assume verse 7 is not GGpark.  Which means I have 9 more to choose from...

maltedfalcon you mentioned Sutro Tower, which made me think of the hole, in the in the rock at Sutro baths, found this link not a good one, but will do to show it. hxxp://www.geocities.com/sfphototour/sutro_baths.html think their are a couple of forts in park too, forts always have a door in the stone wall. but then a lot of walls made of stone have doors, which makes that line a tough one too figure out a link to golden gate park hxxp://www.nps.gov/goga/photosmultimedia/index.htm

maltedfalcon wrote:: If I cant figure out that first one, I am going to assume verse 7 is not GGpark. hmmm...looking better and better for my N.O. theory

You are probably going to be hating me...

maltedfalcon wrote:: You are probably going to be hating me... why so?

hxxp://milwaukeedailyphoto.com/2008/08/ ... rcase.html Grand Staircase in Lake Park  Milwaukee and of course it is a Frederick Law Olmsted park

Wonderstone... I wonder... could this be a literary reference from an author who writings shared similar topics? Walter de la Mare (1873–1956) English poet and writer. "All de la Mare's short stories and longer prose works are touched with mystery, if not fantasy. The two recurrent themes are the child's vision of the world, and death; the usual setting is an unspecified candle‐lit, horse‐drawn age; houses are old, many‐roomed and have secrets. The characters often seem to have strayed from another world, or to be in close contact with it, and many of his stories touch on ghostly visitations. Though his verse often deals with conventional fairy matters—witches on broomsticks, fairy dancers, elves, will‐o'‐the‐wisps, he is far more oblique in his fiction." In 1910 Walter de la Mare wrote The Three Mulla‐Mullgars. "The Three Mulla‐Mullgars is the story of a spiritual quest , from life to death. The three little monkeys set out to find the Valleys of Tishnar , the kingdom from which their father had originally come and for which he has departed. Nod, the folkloristic youngest son, who is also the leader, is entrusted with the talismanic Wonderstone . In the journey ‘beyond and beyond, forest and river, forest, swamp and river, the mountains of Arakkkabao—leagues and leagues’ they encounter strange and wonderful animals, among them the spirit of evil, the menacing Immanala—‘she who preys across the shadows’, and survive terrifying perils, including the loss of the Wonderstone, wheedled from Nod by a seductive Water Maiden. Though the last few pages are anticlimactic, even weak compared to what has gone before, it is the most magical and original of all de la Mare's stories."

Ok... found this... feel free to ponder. From woman, with harpsichord It came up when I was doing a search on Montreal's  Mount Stephen Club  (where a "legeater" was found) Photographed at the Mount Stephen Club, 1440 Drummond St. A marvel of Victorian-era architecture, the mansion was completed in 1883 as the residence of George Stephen, a co-founder of the Canadian Pacific Railway. Today, restored to its original grandeur, it is a private club but welcomes the public to Sunday musical brunches and guided tours. It is also available for private functions - at which a red dress might be just right. For information, call 514-849-7338. OK... not a picture from the 80s or before.... but it sure got my attention.

k, guys getting back into the hunt and skimming  all 30 some pages of this, just a few thoughts before i go back to reading: bp does play with words, and it's been mentioned several times about birch just might mean tree. but since the "g" tree didn't have the cask.... still could be on the fifth lion......but wanted to add these thoughts, even if it leads us around the park ( i thought of this b4 in this thread but no one commented on it ) "to the first YOUNG birch"--------------NEW (young) BERRY road (new fruit tree) "pass three"..................LOCUST (tree), LINWOOD (wood, tree), KENWOOD (wood, tree)---------or maybe three of the markers on the lake park map, or the 3rd tee on golf course, or 3 something staying west........... "you'll see a letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth".......is the other girl scout marker up on this end of the park? on a proud, tall ...........would we be back on lincoln drive?.......lincoln, tall and proud .......(if it's not the lions  ;D  :) at it's southern foot the treasure awaits...........got me (no Idea).........foot of lincoln drive?  kenwood drive?   lion's paw?

View the three stories of Mitchell Dunno if this has been suggested before (couldn't see it in a forum search), but the most plausible Milwaukee candidate I can find for this is the three-storey Mitchell Mansion, aka the "Wisconsin Club", or "German Club". hxxp://www.wisconsinclub.com/ hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/kira_westland/3765849994/ It's at 900 West Wisconsin Avenue. Originally the home of Alexander Mitchell , "this location was purchased in 1895 from the Mitchell family by the founders of the club, three Milwaukee businessmen, General F. C. Winkler, George Koeppen and Henry Gugler." (Three who lived there...? Or maybe the Mitchell family.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * You can kind of head east until you hit the art museum. Unsuccessful in finding any women with harpsichords who might have appeared there, though I liked this one. (You won't.) I, II, III 43, 87 = Milwaukee hxxp://www.abcgallery.com/F/fedotov/fedotov2.html

WhiteRabbit, Here is a link to "Mitchell Hall" on Downer Ave. near Lake Park. It is 3 stories tall. hxxp://www4.uwm.edu/map/buildings/vt-mit-prof.cfm Here is a link to the Webshots album of Milwaukee photos taken by Stercox several years ago. I don't know if you need to sign up on Webshots to view it. hxxp://news.webshots.com/album/548906299aPUQAZ?start=0

(Thanks for that AP.) Beating of the world just reminded me of the German anthem: Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, Über alles in der Welt Club...beating... World...whirled...(image 10) 1920 Milwaukee entry in the Guinness Book of Records - involving 55 elephants and a circus 1957 World Series victory for the Milwaukee Braves

As you walk the beating of the world Or...Kenwood Blvd, from Mitchell Hall to Marietta Ave. World pillow-fighting championships. hxxp://www.kenwoodpillowfights.com/

slappybuns wrote:: lincoln, tall and proud .......if it's not the lions  ;D Southern foot / southpaw...boxing..."wildcat" Ad Wolgast , Milwaukee world boxing champion 1910...

OMG, omg, omg...there's so much going on in this thread it makes my head spin. I just discovered this thread.  I'm having difficulty finding my way around because of the different notions about which verse pairs with which image. If I cross post to both the threads for which I think an image and verse match, then I suppose it's in the right place. One of my omg's was after going through about a hundred posts and seeing pics of folks with their tarps out and digging, man, people have been through a lot around here. Anyways, this is verse 8 discussion and I am unclear on whether you're pairing it with Image 10, 1, or 2. Here's why I think it is 2:  The Mitchell (verse) connection to Africanology (image), the wonderstone/hearth (verse) connection to a moth's wing spots and attraction to a flame (image ..see moth winged lady).  A line may be drawn through these two points that points to Lake Park.

erexere -- this just can't be right. There is a map of Charleston on the mask's forehead. That's pretty definitive, even if it weren't for the latitude / longitude.

I'm only three threads deep on this site. Where's the map to charleston thread?

found it, it's all the Image 2 discussion, and yes, you're right, it is a map of charleston and so I'm befuddled.  I thought the map portions looked passable for Africa/Madigascar... At this point, since I'm having a number of difficulties grasping the depth here.  I certainly want to contribute, so it might be that my offerings go against what is widely accepted.  It's a toughy.  If it helps for me to nod my head in agreement from time to time, I'll do that too.  I really do like the Charleston possibilities.  The ornament hanging from the tree certainly resembles the basic structure for a Fort, which has been discussed, so I have to wonder what BP's motives were when he put this together.  It's difficult enough finding a needle in a haystack, but to put elements in that are red herrings would just be evil. Please don't hesitate to keep me informed of the consensus, it would help greatly.

erexere, I'm sure it would help if you look over the Secret Wiki listed here: hxxp://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/22148559/FrontPage Since the hunt started in 1982, there has been a lot of information gathered. Not all of the combinations in the Wiki are correct or verified, but it helps to get a feel for the hunt.  Maybe you could focus on the one closest to you first...so you don't get overwhelmed right away. (That is so easy to do... ) This is actually the online forum supporting the book The Secret . There are so many online copies of the Images, and listings of the Verses, that the book is probably not essential any more. By now you have found out that the treasures originally given for finding the casques in The Secret, are no longer part of the hunt.  The hunt's creator died in 2005. But the casques have taken on more importance, since they are now all that is left. That being said, the greed and secrecy which usually accompany any treasure hunt, are missing from this one. There is mostly a lot of sharing and camaraderie here. Again, welcome to the clan! AP P.S. I am near Milwaukee, and am quite sure that the Verse 8 is paired with Image 10

Thanks for the help.  I can describe "the wall" in great detail already... I have seen only one comment that works to explain the three stripes, a photo by forestblight showing "red white and blue", but the picture I'm studying shows the second strip is yellow.  Which is it, white or yellow?

erexere wrote:: The ornament hanging from the tree certainly resembles the basic structure for a Fort, which has been discussed, so I have to wonder what BP's motives were when he put this together. more importantly it is the exact shape of fort Sumter, in the charleston bay...

Unknown: I have seen only one comment that works to explain the three stripes, a photo by forestblight showing "red white and blue", but the picture I'm studying shows the second strip is yellow.  Which is it, white or yellow? Welcome, Erexere! In my book it's more white than yellow. I never thought it was a yellow stripe.

Also, I'm fairly certain that exact stripe pattern was found on a sign at the park where this casque is supposed to be.

Dwarves' treasure: purple Amethyst Imperial star of Germany I see it like this. View the three stories of Mitchell The three-storey Mitchell mansion or German Club on West Wisconsin Ave, with its staircase adorned with 24 lions. (Map left.) As you walk the beating of the world West Wisconsin -> WWI -> “world war won” At a distance in time From three who lived there The three men who bought the house and established the club - Winkler, Koeppen and Gugler. At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing The Art Museum (map right), taking you down the avenue, past the nearby Pabst Theatre with its copper sign and design matching the collar. Step on nature Cast in copper Oakleaf Trail and Lincoln Memorial Drive. Ascend the 92 steps After climbing the grand 200 Up the drive to the Grand Staircase in Lake Park. Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Past North Point Lighthouse to the bridge: Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits Gets hazy at this point. I’m favouring the culvert at the mo, for reasons explained in the Milwaukee Update thread (repetition of "foot"), but I'm not sure where it is or what it looks like. Seem to remember seeing a picture of a culvert somewhere on the forum with one of the lion bridges in the background. The juggler is kind of looking through the millstone at a bridge.

I found this picture in Stercox's Milwaukee album labelled "R1 Culvert end"... hxxp://news.webshots.com/album/548906299aPUQAZ Is that rocky trail a footpath, or a culvert, or both...? Is there general agreement that the "culvert" in the verse is referring to something like this...? Do both of the lion bridges have them...? * * * * * Wondering if the primrose matches the design on the bridge supports. Eight lions... hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Stone_Lions_(Kupper ) Lines of eight... Circle of eight...

Wow, great stuff WR! I was just thinking about the line with 'as you walk the beating of the world' and it seems to me a reference to the waves beating a shoreline.

From various online dictionaries: CULVERT 1. A sewer or drain crossing under a road or embankment. 2. a. The part of a road or embankment that passes over such a sewer or drain. b. The channel or conduit for such a sewer or drain. 1. A transverse drain. 2. A conduit for a culvert. 3. A bridge over a culvert. 1. A culvert is a covered structure that conveys a flow under a road, railroad or other obstruction. Culverts are mainly used to divert stream or rainfall runoff to prevent erosion or flooding on highways. 1. A drain or channel crossing under a road, sidewalk, etc.; sewer; conduit. ...so there seem to be varying meanings. It could mean a drain under a road, the road itself, or a bridge.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I found this picture in Stercox's Milwaukee album labelled "R1 Culvert end"... hxxp://news.webshots.com/album/548906299aPUQAZ Is that rocky trail a footpath, or a culvert, or both...? Is there general agreement that the "culvert" in the verse is referring to something like this...? Do both of the lion bridges have them...? WhiteRabbit, It is definitely a trail...in the culvert. The South Lion Bridge culvert/trail is composed of landscape timbers and dirt. The North Lion Bridge culvert/trail (Stercox' Ravine 1) is composed of stones and dirt..."rock and soil" in verse 8. That is one reason to equate the "100 paces over rock and soil" with the North ravine/culvert.

Does the word Meaux mean anything to anyone?  I'm still getting Image 2 vibes despite the Charleston theory.  Meaux Park is the site corresponding to an alignment of Grand Stair with Mitchell hall and the idea that the Moth Lady matches a river segment to the Northwest.  One of my deductions pointing back to Selby Abbey cuased me to draw a parallel to Meaux Abbey (no longer existing, just like Fort Bellingham).  I'm drawing some interesting conclusions from very simple parallels.  Everyone might agree Image 2 contains. Fort Sumpter shape...I propose that Preiss meant for us to be concerned with another Fort as well...Bellingham?  Did he have pairings in mind?

"As you walk the beating of the world" = As you walk through the heart of town? Could a brigadier general be seen as a proud tall fifth?

This statue of Kosciuszko facing Lincoln St. could be in a park having birch.  Congress awarded him citizenship and the rank of brigadier general which is considered a 1-star general.  General as a rank has 1-5 stars, so this general would be a 1/5 or "fifth". The marble pedestal might be the object of wonderstone's hearth.  It's coloration is also similar to the background of Image 10. The immediate surrounding shape of the seating and walkways looks very similar to the "mecca" design of the woman's collar. Here I've rotated a cross section and pasted it over itself.  Sorry it's not too clean looking but you get the idea.

animal painter wrote:: The collar design looks a lot like this park just down the street from the Northpoint Lighthouse. Unknown: Colnik heard about the "German Athens" to the north, Milwaukee, and decided he could better earn a living with Milwaukee's large German speaking communities. Colnik received several commissions from beer barons Captain Frederick Pabst and Herman Uihlein of Schlitz Brewing Company, among other "48ers" who had amassed fortunes since the German influx into America in 1848. Colnik was a pacifist. When World War I broke out he became depressed. He heard of an English officer who saw atop the building of one of the largest German newspapers in Milwaukee a symbol of Germany's greatest conquest: a statue of Miss Germania. The English wanted the statue removed. One night, Colnik helped remove Miss Germania from the building and concealed her in his shop so she would not be defaced or stolen. The statue has never been seen nor recovered since. Pass three, staying west If you interpret the 100 paces as leading back from the lion bridge to Lincoln Memorial Drive, one of the threes you pass heading west is a road sign. You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth "Hearth" always seemed a strange choice of word, and I'd wondered if it was a clue for the letter: "country of wonderstone's heart - h", H being at the heart of Deutschland and Amethyst. A bit further on, you pass the "H" of the St Mary's Hospital helipad. The "beating of the whirled"...? It's near the collar-like North Point Park... The helipad is at the tip of the cloak-like shape which rests on the collar in the image. You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits. Maybe the letter isn't actually on the fifth, and it means "onwards", or something. I like the idea of getting the collar-park onto the collar. Perhaps there's some connection between the character's collar and the millstone which seems to be the focus of her attention. If she's looking at the hole in the middle of the millstone...and we're looking for the hole in the middle of the collar...then based on the cloak analogy that would be somewhere round here... The lines indicate the area I associate with the cloak tip on the collar, containing the helipad. I've circled the Villa Terrace Decorative Arts Museum . It features displays by Austrian master blacksmith Cyril Colnik .

WR, great stuff, I'm not sold on the helicopter, but I love the germanic link to wonderstone and heart+H, along with the cloak tip and blacksmith art.  I had been looking for a link to the word 'epistle' but havn't found anything.  **edit: the epistolary form of writing would have to be well known by B.Preiss, as it was used in works like Clarissa by Samuel Richardson or Frankenstein by M. Shelly.  'Letter from the country' just really grabbed me that way...still really like the H for hospital though, since etymologically speaking, the german word SPITAL is very similar to the word EPISTLE, if you wish to allow rearrangement to ESPITLE and S-PITLE = SPITAL, or HOSPITAL.  Whether or not the hospital sign was in place at the time in 1981 to see the specific letter 'H', the fact that there is a hospital there is the equivalent of a "letter from the country".  A root meaning to do with the word 'hosptial' is 'foreigner' or 'stranger' and  that in German is 'Ausslander' which can be seen as "from the country".  Sorry if I'm seem redundant or to be over thinking...just had my afternoon espresso. I'm feeling good about the Kosciuszko statue for two reasons now that I'm inclined to scratch the wonderstone connection I tried to force with it.  1. Walkway layout matches collar pattern (not that the shape of collar doesn't match something somewhere else as WR has suggested) and 2. 1/5th General. At a distance in time = "second" or 2nd street as best I can tell and At a distance in space = "state" as in a thermodynamic system where you consider variables like pressure, volume, etc... I derive this line of thinking from a number of 'engineering' related clues I've gathered from other possible casque solutions.  There always seemed to be a school of Engineering nearby or a reference to a person who was an engineer...like L. Ron Hubbard or S. Lancaster.  I suppose it all plays into the architectural themes.

From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing This is Jean Atkinson in a historic photo at the Volunteer Services for the Visually Impaired organization that shares the Milwaukee Public Library building.  Now it is known as ABLE or Audio & Braille Literary Enhancement.  The "silently playing" has either to do with a statue or some element of imagery or possibly a deafness motif, which is often seen paired with the blindness disability.  Why do people tend to speak loudly when talking to a person with visual disability?  I've paired her photo with a historic painting of a woman playing a Virginal type harpsichord.

Lots of stuff going on in this next photo and there's probably lots missing.  I've tried to map instances where I think verse and image go with landmarks. Yellow numbers go with the Picture 1. the city hall spires in background 1a. forgot to add in the blacksmith metal work that looks like the flower 2. the orbs as basketball references to the Mecca arena 3. Zeidler Union Park where doing perspective math to find angle and distance gets you 4. the line of the cloak along the back of woman's head area matches blue shaded river area when rotated 90 deg. 5. the cloak tip matches this green shaded area near Northpoint park 6. the orange shaded river bank matches the forehead to chin profile of the woman who is now wearing pink lipstick 7. the pattern inside of the collar matches the area around statue in Koscuiszko Park Red numbers go with Verse: 1. Mitchell Hall 2. Grand Stair 3. 100 paces south east 4. Letter from the country 5. Compass = North (lighthouse, park, or street) 6. hmm...oh, this was meant to go with the Image for the Art Museum 7. woman, with harpsichord 8. distance in time (second street) 9. nevermind 10. pass three stay west (from 2nd go past 3rd, 4th, and 5th to land on 6th) 11. step onto nature 12. proud tall fifth, statue of 1 star general 13. cast in copper (Lincoln Ave.)

Thanks for the feedback. Here's a few more thoughts on the helicopter thing... Dwarves' treasure: purple Amethyst, Imperial star of Germany The juggler, the millstone, the key...this puzzle is all about things turning. Early on in the trail, as you cross from West Wisconsin to Lincoln, you pass this eight-bladed sculpture at the Betty Brinn Children's Museum... Note the similarities between image 10 and image 5 - the blue-capped figure: ....and the way in which Milwaukee City Hall and the Chicago Water Tower are depicted... ...the Chicago Water Tower benefiting from the addition of four blades. You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits. Let's say the trail returns down Lincoln after the lion bridge. Consider this stretch of Lincoln, with the helipad in the middle: Maybe this could be the "proud, tall fifth". Lincoln was tall (6'4) and proud. “I like to see a man proud of the place in which he lives. I like to see a man live so that his place will be proud of him.” The letter on this tall proud fifth is the H of the helipad. The curve of the 5 is Water Tower Road, recalling the similarities with image 5 and the Chicago Water Tower. Regarding the month (February), this image corresponds to Aquarius, the Water Carrier. At its southern foot The treasure waits. The location would then be at the base of this figure. Here's another possible way to interpret the image in terms of this location: This is what the area at the base of the 5 looks like. Here's an overview comparing the cloak 5 and the Lincoln 5. Looked at this way, the key might correspond with Villa Terrace and its displays of wrought iron (circled lower left), and the millstone with the helipad. I'm wondering if one of the juggler's objects indicates the approximate location, but not necessarily the gem. The thrown ball is closest to the southern foot of the 5. On the other hand, "its southern foot" could refer to either the fifth or the letter. If it was the letter, we'd be looking at the helipad/millstone. The treasure weights.

A few thoughts/questions: When was the helipad installed? The 8 pointed orange art sculpture at the children's museum really looks like what inspired the juggling motif. Could the line 'reach the foot...' (minus the word culvert) be referring to the Juneau statue where you would have to reach up to touch his foot? The repeated use of the words 'foot' and 'distance' (both twice) seems to inspire the question of "how many feet away is something?"  I've already figured that to mean Zeidler Park, but perhaps that is just a small element within a bigger math/geometric problem.  Is there a "circle"...what would be the center...I had projected a value based on triangles and using the estimated distance between spires as x=275 feet and worked out an answer of about 2000-2200 feet to the southwest.  Will go to work on this problem and show my math in detail to see if anyone can help improve on it.

Distance in time, distance in space is curious...wondering about measurements; eg "m" is both minute (distance in time) and metre, or mile (distance in space). The "Imperial star" of the litany and the "treasure waits" got me thinking about imperial weights and measures...stone, ounce... "Southern foot" is pretty vague. How close...? Wondered about "SFt", 5 feet away from something, or would need confirmation via the picture. The helipad would need to be dated, yep. At the moment I'm quite interested in this general area but have yet to find a visual match to something at this location. I quite like Juneau, but I couldn't square it with the proud, tall fifth or see a likely-looking area.

I have a mini theory that seems to hold that the direction of a figure's gaze figures into the path towards the casque. When I find the Zeidler park location from perspective triangulation based on Cityhall, I find that the woman's gaze looks directly south...this is my main reason for searching for confirmers on a path southwards.  Let the record show that I don't for a moment think the casque is buried at Zeidler.

Ah, OK. I guess that's very Masquerade. I have a mini theory that these puzzles are all interconnected but too few have been completed to untangle the relationships.

Helipad is pretty recent, built in 2005.  Hospital has always been in place though.  Probably the H sign was there on a road sign of some sort. I'm probably just imagining things.

erexere wrote:: Helipad is pretty recent, built in 2005. Darn, thanks Erexere. Back to the drawing board.

I know well how "new" ideas don't form themselves.  I've been reading lots of ideas from these boards and whether wrong, right, biased, impartial, strange or momentary like subatomic quarks, I can always use my imagination to put up something different. Preiss started somewhere...he may have switched things up inexplicably or layered things in a way that disguises their original meaning, but surely some of these puzzles are connected by comminalities.  So far I've spotted Generals in the Mexican-American and Civil Wars, two fairly close in history as far as dates go.  Senators and Congress, founding Fathers and Pioneers seem like good resources too.  Its the stuff that doesn't really change in our country's setting.  The occasional exception occurs when a new freeway or building bleeps out a road segment...the MLK blvd in my area caused a lot of road changes and now we have Pioneer Parkway...  I'm baffled by the idea he would place casques at historic sites directly, so if one site seems more significant when pairing verse and image then we must be close. Right now I'm looking at the south foot of the Koscuiszko statue in Milwaukee...can anyone seriously rule it out?  The park as a whole isn't a historical landmark is it?  The grass around the base of the statue seems like fair game.  The biggest obstacle towards progress here seems to be attitudes on being seen walking around with a shovel may have changed since the early 80's with vandalism and weirdness in general.

No mentions of this yet, so I'll throw it into the mix now- was just watching a bunch of Silver Surfer cartoons on netflix and came across something about two characters named Eternity (distance in time) and Infinity (distance in space).  Any ideas how 1981 Milwaukee could involve such themes?  Infinity as the number 8?  How about some place 8 blocks from anything someone believes as significant to both verse and image?  Preferably in the southward direction.

I tried loosely interpreting things and thinking that if I start at the southern foot of the Koscuiszko statue and go east 100 paces I see across the street this image. **edit: added in the collar pattern to compare a repeated pattern with this Greek design even though it is now a Mexican restaurant. I'm trying for a "see a letter from the country" as meaning K for kappa, and K for Koscuiszko similar to how he would use M or B. Here's a candidate tree across the street from the restaurant and a spot 100 paces east of the south foot of the statue-

The problem with Kosciuszko Park is the complexity of the route from the Grand Staircase. I don't see distance as so much of an obstacle, but I think the final destination can only be a couple of turnings away via the verse. Although Lake Park is a frustrating place, there doesn't seem to be any getting away from it.

The Greek restaurant was there before 2001 for at least 40 years.  Then it became a Mexican restaurant.  I can't say when the columns and pattern were installed. WhiteRabbit, your WWI = W. Winsconsin Ave and German Club looks liked the real deal.

WR, using your input, I've been working through the route more carefully.  Verse and Image are both giving us directions.  The route almost seems scattered, but is actually one path if you are willing to "juggle" the lines of the verse and pair particulars in the image to fill important gaps. Preface:  I have evolved several early ideas to a point where this is currently my most complete and upto date version.  All points have been checked for accuracy and existed previous to 1980.  I don't have a solid idea on what would be the culvert...could be Lake Park, could be the crossing at Plankington (waterway).  My guess is that we don't dig at the southern foot of the statue but the southern foot of a tree nearby just east of the statue on Lincoln Ave. The 92/200 Stairs is definitively Lake Park.  The compass is the Northpoint Water Tower along highway 32 S which takes you on a path to the (Edit: I got the wrong museum, Charles Allis Art Museum it is not) Cyril Colnik at the Villa Terrace Decorative Arts Museum where you see the fine crafted flower.  The symbolism with the juggling woman is that we are having to find our direction by juggling verse and image, not to mention the key (smithing), cane (carving), and millstone (wind and water) which are clues to find links to that subject matter interpretively rather than visually.  Next, depending on which street combo you take you might find either the Juneau statue (hands and wrinkled fabric at left elbow match image) or you'll find that the corner of E. State and N. Water is where you find the right angle on the cityhall building in the background where perspective on both spires have the same height. (Note: I was very wrong on my math approach to find Zeidler Union Square...forget that one).  You might observe the Pabst Theater doorway matching the woman's collar and you might cross to the west side to get a closer look at the Mitchell mansion or the Braille library which I believe links some verse about the harpsichord (but may well be the music center on the corner where you get the view of cityhall).  Here it gets tricky, I believe you have to resume the trail going East down W.Wisconsin (beating of the world) back to 2nd street, cross the Plankinton lift bridge and continue south till you pass the old clock tower (distance in time) and that puts you at Greenfield where you head west (step onto nature) since east just goes into the river and boat yards.  Here you head west until you find a post office (letter from the country) which is just left on 11th and W. Greenfield.  This puts you south for quite a ways until you intersect with diagonally headed Windlake Ave (wind).  This is where you cut southeast 100 paces and that puts you at the NW corner of Koscuiszko Park.  Continue South and you'll come to your first birch about halfway, continue southbound, staying on the west side (staying west) of the park until you get to Lincoln Ave (cast in copper).  I'm not sure what "pass three" refers to, but there are 3 lamp post that could be considered passed as you approach the Koscuiszko statue.  This has enough continuity to be a possible location.  Lake Park seems like it's just the beginning of the journey across town. Swap in the Villa Terrace Decorative Arts Museum for the Charles Allis Museum, they're not far from each other.

Oh wow!  This idea just tickles me because the tree I am thinking of is where the jewel is in this overlay from an aerial image taken in 2000.  You can see the path outline that fits a shoulder to shoulder curve possibility. Here is the very tree I suspected earlier, this time I used one of those aging algorithm programs you can find all over the internet to see what the image in the cape looks like 30 years later! Just kidding about the aging algorithm...but here's my best attempt-

Lots of threes in this verse. Three stories of Mitchell. Three who lived there. Three staying west... (the three staying west remind me of the three who stayed on West Wisconsin) ...and the three faces on the Girl Scouts logo. "Milwau kee County Park System"...the key...? Maybe this shape and key position are from the sign. Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth I was wondering again about "pass three" referring to this sign on the tree. I can't remember whether more than one of these was found, but I was looking at Stercox's map showing the one at the top of the south ravine. If you follow Stercox's route as far as the top of the north ravine, interpreting this point as "the foot of the culvert [that runs] below the bridge", could you then walk 100 paces southeast to the GS tree (circled), or thereabouts...? Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west You could walk to the tree, then head west. Or you could pass the three on the sign during the 100 paces, staying west of them. That seems to make more sense of the word "staying". (Are the three on the correct side of the tree to be "staring west"...?) There seems to have been something called the “Girl Scouts of Birch Trails Council” in Wisconsin, though I’m not sure exactly what it was. Circle of fifths...harpsichord... perfect fifths ... P5, CG, GD, DA, AE, EB, FC

WR, the girlscout sign with the faded background match is wicked! The Lake Park is surely correct...or a diabolical Preissian trap.  I see what AP is talking about when she says you'll feel like it has to be the place once your feet are actually there on the lip of a culvert. Id like someone to take the 3 mile (precisely 3 miles!) Journey from the grand stair to the tree I've found at approximately 800 W. Lincoln Ave.  Look at that perspective closely and see if 30 years hasn't completely altered the result beyond recognition.

erexere wrote:: a diabolical Preissian trap Indeed. More randomness... A letter from the country of wonderstone's heart h - M (GER M ANY) On a proud, tall fifth - AP ( AP ROUDTALL, first fifth of the ten letters) Don't suppose there are any signs with maps round there? (I'm determined to interpret this verse as obtusely as possible.)

WR, that's really cool and playful work.  I hope that insight finds the right place to turn cheese into wine.  If you can do it you might as well have fun doing it. That line does look juicier than the others.  Letter and Heart ... epistolary novel?  Aphra Behn?.

Interestingly, straight from the Lake Park Friends website ( hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/explore/brick_arch_bridge.shtml )... A "... brick arch bridge spans the large north ravine allowing traffic to enter the park from the north end. Designed in a Renaissance Revival style by Oscar Sanne, an engineer trained in Germany ... [it] opened in 1893. Sanne designed four of the five large bridges in Lake Park. Notice the terra cotta medallion designs and brickwork on the outer sides and the quatrefoil openings along the railing." Not that this has any effect on the current theory, just thought the proud tall fifth made sense as identifying the lion bridge (as it was 1 of Sanne's 4 and 1 of 5 total, making it a "proud" fifth), maybe. I am unable to accommodate verse 8 with any other bridge. Although, I wonder if 1 of the 5 bridges in the park looks more similar to the presumed bridge in image 10. I wonder how passing three could play on this. I'd love to know your thoughts on this WR... have you looked into this info previously, or elsewise considered it?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: ...just thought the proud tall fifth made sense as identifying the lion bridge (as it was 1 of Sanne's 4 and 1 of 5 total, making it a "proud" fifth), maybe. I am unable to accommodate verse 8 with any other bridge. I'm coming round to Stercox's idea that the second part of the verse describes a north-south trek along one of the lion bridge ravines. The foot of the culvert Below the bridge The north end of one of the ravines that pass under the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Start walking along the ravine; the current shortage of birch trees is a bit of a downer, though we don't know exactly what BP saw. Pass three, staying west I used to think of this as a change of direction, but I now think of continuing in the same southeast direction along the ravine, passing a three of some kind and staying west of them. You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth Either the bridge or a birch or something else. At its southern foot The treasure waits Either the southern foot of this thing (eg the bridge, the tree, or whatever), or the southern foot of the ravine, matching the northern foot where the hike started. ("It" would be referencing "the culvert below the bridge" earlier in the verse.) So I was back to thinking about which of the two lion-bridge ravines this might be, and looking for double-arch shapes in the image to represent this double bridge. The most obvious one is the sleeves. (“Tall proud fifth”…five fingers indicating which of the two ravines to choose…? Possible arch/bridge-confirmer between thumb and index finger. The other three fingers could represent the three that you pass.) One of the sleeves is slightly wider than the other, as in the alternative double-arch of Milwaukee City Hall. (I wonder if one of the bridge arches is wider...?) The rock edge below them is a bit ravine-like. The collar could also indicate the arch of a bridge, with the gem beside it. At the moment I’m thinking some kind of overlooked pattern in the image might pinpoint a spot beside the bridge or elsewhere along one of those two ravines.

I've previously looked for the distinctive shape of the lion bridge in image 10, and this one suddenly jumped out at me. Can't remember if it's been mentioned before. The three prongs at either end match the pattern in the cloak and fingers, with the arm as the path. The edge of the cloak would be the ravine. I haven't given up hope of using an image as a map at some point. *** Brainstorming *** The coppery edge of the collar is linked with the copper sign of the Pabst theatre, and with Lincoln Memorial Drive which is also "cast in copper". That might put the gem in the area at the south end of one of the ravines before the turning. I previously suggested a 5 in the crook of the juggler's elbow, and that's right in the middle of this bridge shape, so I'm inclined to think of the bridge and its pride as the 5th. That would mean the location is not necessarily beside a birch. So…if it can’t be found by following the instructions literally and looking for a specific tree, how do you find it? Would have to be from some missing pictorial clue. For instance, Sonoran seemed to be wandering around this kind of scenery in that general area, though I’m not sure exactly where this is. There are elements in the image that remind me of steps. (I'm not suggesting there's a match here; it's just a random example of the way in which it might conceivably work. I'm not convinced the verses are always enough to get you to the exact spot. Also wondering about waits/weights/waist as a final pointer.) I see it something like this: The lion bridge shape fits the south ravine best, being the left sleeve from this angle. The left edge of the cloak is the south trail (dotted line) down to Lincoln, the curving copper band. Ideally someone could find a millstone or something lying around in the circled area where the amethyst is.  ;) I don’t know what this area looks like…would be interested to see some pics. Another shape that might be worth considering is the gem; eg, an open area with steps in one corner or something. On the other hand, the scale might be completely different, putting it right next to a “prong”. In fact I like that better. Ie, here: What does that look like on the ground…? (Then again, the casque might be represented by the red ball between the two prongs opposite, at the other end of this bridge.)

Have you seen the hi-res bird's eye view of the lighthouse and bridges from Microsoft Bing Maps 3D?

Thanks wk, that's a great resource.  :) At a quick glance, the street-level mapping doesn't seem as comprehensive, but it offers useful alternative aerial views of these locations, as well as ground-level in some cases. Do they use a different satellite or something? I'm installing Ovi as well now. You've opened my eyes to a whole new world of mapping. This is going to waste even more of my time.

just throwing out a cast in copper idea based on walking down water street to jeneau park Conceived to commemorate the 60th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln’s 1859 visit to Milwaukee and address before the Wisconsin State Fair, delayed by World War I, commissioned in 1932, the statue was dedicated September 15, 1934.    Removed during the construction of Milwaukee’s War Memorial Center, the statue was relocated near its original site in 1986 following renovations to the Lincoln Memorial Bridge.    Of cast bronze, But Lincoln pennies contributed by Wisconsin schoolchildren, underwrote the cost of the statue and its base ergo cast in copper...

Sounds like the same story as the McDonough statue.

Malted, Your idea of casques being near iconic water towers has merit.  Milwaukee has one just a stone's throw from the lakefront...The North Point Water Tower . AP

nope I said near Iconic images in the pictures (of which chicagos was the water tower.) clevelands was the terminal tower - did I say water tower? oops if I did... Milwaukee would be city hall (which is on water st. SF would be Golden Gate Park. Montreal would be the legeater... Or the legeater could be the end of the path... no way of telling at this point.

Malted, You did say "terminal tower" My mind made the connection to the iconic water tower...my fault. Nice reasoning you came up with.

Walk the beating of the world, How about Plankington?  "Walk the (plank- as a pirate might say) beating of the world.". What is generally expected when someone is robbed? They are beaten or at least threatened.  The Golden Age of Piracy was a heavy blow to the world of trade across waters.  I'm not sure why this association might fit with image 10 or verse 8...but there is a substantial piracy allusion in another verse not to do with this image.  Perhaps BP felt it was a bit of creative flair to drop relative associations.

At a distance in time, At a distance in space, Some distance along "second" street, passing through the Clock Tower Acres.  An Acre is a measure of space. Im a bit hazy on the particulars with how this journey starts in Lake Park and gets to W. Lincoln Ave., but thats what I'm tying to figure out.

This may help us to verify the starting point of the verse. (To which "Mitchell" building was BP referring?) View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world You pass Mitchell Hall on Kenwood Blvd. In the past, we have thought that Kenwood, because of its stereo speakers, may have been the "beating of the world" reference. But I just found out that Kenwood, since 1947, has also been a kitchen appliance manufacturer... specifically..."beaters"...or mixers. They introduced the double-beater! This makes more of the case for Mitchell Hall on Kenwood Blvd. as our point of origin...instead of the Mitchell Mansion on Wisconsin Ave. As much as I love the statue of Solomon Juneau, I still think the treasure was buried nearer the lion bridges... (Your PDF of the Milwaukee treasure info was very nicely done, WhiteRabbit!) AP

Well if that doesn't beat all! Good research, AP.

You can also "view the three stories of Mitchell" in West Allis by traveling down West Lincoln Ave. and looking at the Mitchell family home, which is now part of a home for the aged (but still completely intact.) it is a 3-story Queen Anne style home that The Mitchell family built and named "Meadowmere." More here: hxxp://mitchellmanorwestallis.com/retirement-communities-our-history Just a thought. Also, for what it's worth, I believe the "beating of the world" refers to the World Series, which the Milwaukee Brewers ALMOST made it to in 1981, and DID compete it in 1982.

AP, that is a huge discovery, thanks for sharing.

The more I think about the Kenwood theory ("As you walk the beating of the world"), the more I like it. It's just like BP to insert some clever wordplay. I can just imagine him thinking "I'm on Kenwood, now how can I work that into a riddle...?" and thinking of Kenwood beaters. It fits really well. This verse is full of wordplay and riddle, quite unlike Verse 4. But "...of the world"? That's an odd turn of phrase, isn't it? It's Kenwood Boulevard, so I thought maybe "Boulevard" is French for "blah blah of the world." No such luck (it means "bulwark" or "bastion"). I think my memory is fading. Consider this part of the verse: Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Wouldn't that put us back on Lincoln Memorial Drive beside the tree where we dug, making that the first tree and not the fifth ? Pass three, staying west Perhaps this means to head NE, staying on the west side of LMD, until we come to the fifth big tree? I have a feeling pinetree or someone already suggested this, but I don't remember.

Im not ready to sign off on mitchell hall.  I still want to keep options open and call it mitchell something.  Why would Preiss use Mitchell, if not to cast confusion about which Mitchell, the Hall or the historic street or the historic home?  I love the beating = Kenwood idea, and though it follows the Mitchell reference it still could be a setup to create an overwhelming sense of proximity that gets us stuck in nearby Lake Park as a result.  From a viewpoint that some sleight of hand might be at work here, i want to extract words and ideas as basic pointers. Three comes up twice.  Is there a connection to 3rd street?  Third ward? Juneau, Marquette, Kilbourne? Mitchell, a person, a hall, a street, a neighborhood? Kenwood, a beater, a street? World, a street? 2nd, second as a distance in time, a street? 12th, 12 months in year, a lightyear as a distance in space, a street? Lincoln, cast in copper, a street, highway? Lake Park, grand stair...definitely. North Point, pass the compass, a light house, a neighborhood? The image contains cityhall, locust, and what looks like  a lake feature.  Cityhall is an iconic image, locust is a street, the lake hood is still a mystery to me.  The cape is caught by wind, wind lake road?

I was in Chicago today with several hours to kill, so I drove to Milwaukee (!). I parked across the street from Mitchell Hall on the UWM campus and followed the verse as best as I was able, but was unable to glean anything new. Once you "pass the compass" things get real ambiguous (even which direction one is supposed to pass it is unclear). Plus, Lake Park has changed a lot even in the few years since I was there last. I can only imagine how much it has changed since 1981-ish. At least I was able to refresh my on-the-ground knowledge of the place. Sorry I didn't give you any warning AP -- it was a last-minute decision to visit. I'll post a lot of photos in a few days.

FB, You were able to enjoy Milwaukee on one of its nicest days this year! Sorry we could not have met up. I look forward to seeing your recent photos. AP

Well shucks Forest, that's now twice you've been there and returned without a casque.  >:(

Third time's a charm? Someday!

I see Byron gave a hint about Wisconsin before the book was even out... hxxp://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 16,3442361

since this verse uses paces,ill post here to quote author=cw0909 link=topic=729.msg121508#msg121508 date=1338406468] ive been stuggling with those paces since the 80s,maybe BP meant PACE= 1foot or what most have said on the net,avg 4.5-5ft = a pace What is a pace? A pace is equivalent to, two natural steps. Starting with your right foot as the first step, when your left foot hits the ground you can count that as one pace How many feet are in a pace? The average length in feet of a pace will vary between people and will also vary across different types of terrain. Most people will have a pace somewhere around 4.5 to 5 feet hxxp://www.backcountryattitude.com/pacing.html more pace pace [1] a traditional unit of distance equal to the length of a person's "full" pace, that is, the distance between two successive falls of the same foot. Thus one pace equals two steps. The Romans counted 1000 paces in a mile with each pace being a little over 58 inches (or about 148 centimeters). In English speaking countries, the pace is usually defined to be exactly 5 feet (or 152.4 centimeters); this unit is also called the great pace or geometrical pace. Obviously, a good metric version of the pace is exactly 1.5 meters. pace [2] in military use, the term "pace" is often used as an alternate name for the step; see military pace. military pace another name for a step. In the U.S. Army, the military pace is defined to be exactly 30 inches (76.2 centimeters) for ordinary "quick time" marching and 36 inches (91.44 centimeters) for double time marching. The same definitions are generally used by marching bands. hxxp://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictP.html hxxp://www.ces.ncsu.edu/forestry/pdf/WON/won39.pdf hxxp://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/for/for47/for47.htm [/quote]

Nice find WR! Regarding paces... if a pace is two steps, 100 paces would put us across Lincoln Memorial Drive, regardless of which ravine is chosen.

Pass the compass has me convinced it applies to something named North Point.  The light house, the water tower, or the neighborhood natmed North Point are the main options.  If one line takes us that far in distance from the Grand Stair, it might only need another 7 or 8 lines to get us to Kosciuszko Park. Another thing, Proud tall fifth certainly has our minds on looking for the fifth thing among a set of somethings, e.g. birch trees, lion statues, etc., but nobody seems to recognize the solid possibility of a 1-star General aka Brigadier General as a fifth, since the rank of General maxes at 5-stars.  1 of 5 or 1/5 is commonly known as a fifth as well.

Just ruminating on the word "pace"... pace/pās/ Noun: A single step taken when walking or running . It is 100 "steps" from just below the bridge to the end of the North Lion Bridge Ravine. Coincidence? AP

...does that get you to the junction with Lincoln...? Am I right in thinking that you'd only "pass the compass" to get below the north ravine bridge by passing it on the way north to the other end...? And that 100 paces southeast from a point below the bridge over the south ravine would take you over the road...? I just put a note about this quest on a metal detecting forum, and within minutes someone replied that it was one of the most interesting posts they'd ever read. You know, y'all could learn a lot from that bunch...

animal painter wrote:: Just ruminating on the word "pace"... pace/pās/ Noun: A single step taken when walking or running . It is 100 "steps" from just below the bridge to the end of the North Lion Bridge Ravine. Coincidence? AP Unknown: Quote from: animal painter on May 30, 2012, 10:16:48 pm cw0909, I always assumed that a pace is one "walking step" or stride. (I could be wrong.) If you use 2 steps for a pace, that makes the Milwaukee clue entirely different. AP (I like your illustration... ) bringing this from v2 how much dif do you think,maybe 2Xs what you had b4 i did my driveway my measure was 23 1/2 paces,the 2 foot fall count and going with the 5ft,117.5 ft, taped measured 118ft and i walk with a slight limp,left leg

Here are some photos from my recent (brief) trip to Milwaukee, to give people a feel for what it is like on the ground: hxxp://kspot.org/trove/lakepark/lakepark.htm

The bridge north of bistro has a pattern on diagonal that matches in similarity to the womans collar.

Sorry erexere, I'm not seeing it. I don't think it's a match.

FB, Your photos are beautiful...and are an excellent visual tour of the area. The ravines are so sunny now!...That means that "proud tall" trees that once lined them, are gone. The "Girl Scout" tree by the old soccer field is also gone now. One day, we may hear of a remarkable "find" by some park grounds-keeper... a strange clear plastic box housing a plaster "teapot"! Thank you for sharing your up-to-date pictures. AP P.S.  When you "passed the compass" in 1981, you may have been able to walk around the lighthouse on the North side of it...leading you closer to the North Lion Bridge Ravine...because there used to be a walkway from the grassy area between the Lion Bridges, leading West to Wahl Ave.

AP wrote:: P.S.  When you "passed the compass" in 1981, you may have been able to walk around the lighthouse on the North side of it...leading you closer to the North Lion Bridge Ravine...because there used to be a walkway from the grassy area between the Lion Bridges, leading West to Wahl Ave. Ah! That makes the North Lion Bridge Ravine a bit more likely then.

I see the similarity.

cw0909, If a pace were to mean two footsteps, that would almost double the distance covered. When walking the trail from under the bridge in the Southeast direction, it would be hard to measure the paces consistently, since the steps are made of irregular sizes of stones and dirt ("rock and soil"). AP

erexere -- I'm looking hard, but not seeing any similarity. Seeing two patterns doesn't mean they match.

Thanks for the pics Forest.

Here's how my minds eye perceived the two patterns.  They do overlay, believe me, they do.

Isn't it rounded? This was the other suggestion.

TY AP ,hard to count,are the single footfalls,just as hard to count,and i think FB said the 2 footfalls pace count,would put you across the street, i only see that being the place,if there is a metal type culvert,at the end of the ravine,and you start a pace count from there,i know you had a map,of the markers you were using,but i cant seem to find it,could you post it again or lead me to it FB nice pics TY ----------------------------- and FYI,you prob know already but just in case June 10 History Walk Through Lake Park- Southern Area Time: 1:00 p.m. Location: Meet at Warming House Details: This summer the Lake Park Friends History Committee members will lead three walks through Lake Park, a park designed by Frederick Law Olmsted in 1893. Old maps and photographs will be used as aids to more fully interpret the park's historical buildings, bridges and statues. This particular walk will highlight the southern area of the park. Meet at the Lake Park Friends office /Warming House rain or shine. ----------------------------------- July 8 History Walk Through Lake Park- Central Area Time: 1:00 p.m. Location: Meet at Warming House Details: This summer the Lake Park Friends History Committee members will lead three walks through Lake Park, a park designed by Frederick Law Olmsted in 1893. Old maps and photographs will be used as aids to more fully interpret the park's historical buildings, bridges and statues. This particular walk will highlight the central section of the park. Meet at the Lake Park Friends office/Warming House rain or shine. -------------------------- August 12 History Walk Through Lake Park- Northern Area Time: 1:00 p.m. Location: Meet at Warming House Details: This summer the Lake Park Friends History Committee members will lead three walks through Lake Park, a park designed by Frederick Law Olmsted in 1893. Old maps and photographs will be used as aids to more fully interpret the park's historical buildings, bridges and statues. This particular walk will highlight the northern area of the park. Meet at the Lake Park Friends office/Warming House rain or shine. hxxp://lakeparkfriends.org/calendar.shtml#june

Cw0909, Sounds very interesting... Wonder how old their photos will be. AP Not sure about the map you are referring to. I will take a look at my earlier posts... (Can it really have been over 6 years ago?)

Unknown: Ena Xor The next morning when I checked the comments on TCWAF, imagine my horror when I read AP's comment about Washington, California.  I was sure AP had figured it out also. hxxp://gustwintig.com/ the map,IDK i just remember seeing one,hell 6yrs,my mem is prob bad and it was not your map LOL the pics at the history walk,would be nice if it went by decade,1900 1960,70,80 ect. O/T is this you,close no cigar Ladies and gentlemen, Junior Deducers, sleuth-fans, and lovers of justice: The Twelve has been found

Yes,the 12 has been found. I was on the right track...but did not take the steps needed to possess it. It seems I am always "close"...but never "there"

Oh AP, I'm so sorry! Eventually you will unearth the Milwaukee casque, I am certain.

FB, Thank you. AP

I have to admit, I haven't worked on this verse/image a whole lot, but ponder it a bit. I also couldn't find it mentioned yet that the North Bridge is 100 feet long. Perhaps this is why "paces" isn't enumerated in any meaningful way... it would be clear. Or perhaps we just take 100 paces... Sorry if I am just adding fluff.

animal painter wrote:: Just ruminating on the word "pace"... pace/pās/ Noun: A single step taken when walking or running . It is 100 "steps" from just below the bridge to the end of the North Lion Bridge Ravine. Coincidence? AP are these what your talking about,and are both sets of steps a 100 count here is the North Lion Bridge Ravine trail head: hxxp://kspot.org/trove/lakepark/DSC01272.jpg hxxp://kspot.org/trove/lakepark/DSC01273.jpg From here I ascended the trail in the South Lion Bridge Ravine to its top, then descended, snapping photos: hxxp://kspot.org/trove/lakepark/DSC01287.jpg hxxp://kspot.org/trove/lakepark/DSC01288.jpg FB thanks again for the pics

i too think you will find the casque AP did you happen to make it to the history walk the 10th,and was it informative regarding this hunt

cw0909, I did not make it to the "walk" on Sunday. In the past, I have "stepped" off the distance from just below the North Lion Bridge to the trail opening, to be 100 steps. The steps are actually made of stones and dirt  ("rock and soil"), unlike the South Lion Bridge trail which is made of timber and dirt. I am trying to get to the lakefront this week to see if anything jumps out at me. This time of year, everything is thick and green...and it makes it more difficult to really "see the trees".  The under-brush and thistles grow several feet tall and remind me of a tropical jungle (I should take a machete!) Forest B's photos show a lot of changes since last year! Why couldn't BP have chosen to bury the casque near a "hardscape" instead of a tree? AP

animal painter wrote:: Why couldn't BP have chosen to bury the casque near a "hardscape" instead of a tree? +1 for hardscaping. I'd still like to get some pics around here.  ;)

Excerpt from a 1982 book, The Last Evening And night and distant rumbling; now the army's carrier-train was moving out, to war. He looked up from the harpsichord , and as he went on playing, he looked across at her almost as one might gaze into a mirror: so deeply was her every feature filled with his young features, which bore his pain and were more beautiful and seductive with each sound. Then, suddenly, the image broke apart. She stood, as though distracted, near the window and felt the violent drum-beats of her heart. His playing stopped. From outside, a fresh wind blew. And strangely alien on the mirror-table stood the black shako with its ivory skull. Translated by Stephen Mitchell Rainer Maria Rilke

So it was published a year after the puzzles were written?

Nov 1982 for my copy.  It doesnt say theee were earlier editions.  You have a 1981 edition? I'm not putting much weight on this but Rilke was pretty well established before this hunt.  I don't know whether this translation was offered before this compikation of selected poems.  I own a book by Robert Hass that contains work he released prior to its publication.

Publication BP said it took several months for the paintings alone and he had all the clues/burials/ done/written before that. Figure in 1982 minimum 6 months to a year just for get a book to print. So logically the book was written in 1980/81

Okay.  My excerpt seems to have missed the cutoff. My college poetry teacher in 1993 was a student of Hass.  I was just digging through my garage to discover I have two of Hass' books, one from 89 and one from 96.  I have to retract my comment on his work being available before publication.  Poetry is tricky.  You get use to seeing material in magazines or at lectures and then you see a compilation which includes that work at a later date. Still, how can you be so sure Preiss didn't make any last minute changes?

Why would he need to?

I dunno. It was the hat that got my attention.  Ever since I looked at the 'capeline' wikipedia entry about a kind of helmet/cap called a "secrete" and since noticing how the giant in image 5 has a big hat, I've been thinking about the Lincoln connection.  Lincoln had an iconic hat called a 'stovepipe'.  So I got caught up with wondering if the shako was meant to be.  Once again, uncertainty outweigh certainty.

Anyhow, my main interest in the poem was the use of the term 'shako'.  The date of publication may have been important, but even if its disregarded, the Rilke poem itself carries my point.  The shako is much like a stovepipe hat in terms of it's high lift.  It's precursor was known as the Casquette d'Afrique.  I've been considering the Kosciuszko theory rather strongly and I saw a picture of him in uniform wearing a casquette. Kosciuszko is a superb candidate for a "proud tall fifth".  The thought process in translating that line is about considering the proportionality of a 1/5th in terms of a full 5-star rank general.  A brigadier general is a 1-star rank.  Kosciuszko is a fifth.  On a horse he is tall.  As a hero, he is proud. This whole casque vs cask word play has to have more of a purpose, don't you think so?

I phoned the Montessori School in Milwaukee today to speak with the engineer about the history of the wall and fence around the southwest corner of their sports field.  Would be good to know if the 100 paces southeast over rock and soil could apply to this section.  100 paces fits.  Getting to that point and leaving that point fits.  It just seems too likely at this point that there was some means to shortcut through this section.  Perhaps along the outside of the wall and the corner houses adjacent.  I can see that might be an easement of sorts.  The home owners probably don't like it, but people may have cut through regularly.  Looks like a new shed was placed to block on the south side.

No return call.  It looks like it might have been an easy shortcut and it matches the pace count quite well.  Would just be better to know if there was a fence access or no fence at all on the northwest corner.

Pass the compass and reach What if the basketball arena is the "compass"?  It's formerly named the MECCA.  Mecca is a real place in Islamic tradition but it is also idiomatically a place of "attraction".  Attraction is the prime principle in the workings of a compass, which is a magnetic needle being attracted to a magnetic north. Consider also that in the game of basketball a very significant amount of "passing" and "reaching" occurs.  I believe the line is a form of double-double entendre to say "Pass where basketball players pass" or "continue to a place beyond the MECCA" but also to suggest that once in Lake Park near the Grand Stair, discover the North Point Lighthouse, "compasses" point north, and "move beyond to a distance as far as the pointer extends".  Preiss might have simply seen this dual compass/mecca opportunity and chose a most economical way of putting it into words. As in basketball, I think we are in a leaping situation and not bound or confined only to Lake Park. From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing I believe this is a statue by Ivan Mestrovic.  He also crafted the Spearman and the Bowman of Chicago. The Monument to Immigrant Mothers in Cathedral Square has a woman holding a baby and standing by her side a young child.  I think the point of saying harpsichord is connected to the particular name for a smaller box style called the "Virginal" which according to Wikipedia was typically played by women.  I think the following line "Silently playing" must be connected.  In my mind I picture how someone could play a "box with strings" silently and I see a woman with her mouth closed and humming a soothing sound to comfort her child.  The "voice" is produced by vibrating muscle strings in the voice-box.  We typically see a person with their lips shut as being silent.  A statue of a woman with her lips closed isn't enough, but in connection to holding a child it makes really good sense that she could be humming.

erexere wrote:: The Monument to Immigrant Mothers in Cathedral Square has a woman holding a baby and standing by her side a young child.  I think the point of saying harpsichord is connected to the particular name for a smaller box style called the "Virginal" which according to Wikipedia was typically played by women.  I think the following line "Silently playing" must be connected.  In my mind I picture how someone could play a "box with strings" silently and I see a woman with her mouth closed and humming a soothing sound to comfort her child.  The "voice" is produced by vibrating muscle strings in the voice-box.  We typically see a person with their lips shut as being silent.  A statue of a woman with her lips closed isn't enough, but in connection to holding a child it makes really good sense that she could be humming. Wait... So its an imaginary harpsichord? and however you convolute it, Humming is never described as playing an instrument. Even if the statue had a large sign stating "Woman Humming" That would be one of the least likely connections for From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing anybody has put forward here as long as we are making stuff up, Lets just imagine a statue of a woman sitting a harpsichord" call it good and go from there...

I respect your criticisms but be careful to avoid marginalizing ideas unless you're prepared to prove tye overriding point. Humming is used in music.  My Keith Jarret album is a good example.  The basis for humming is that it represents resonation or vivration which is also the basis of the harpsichord's plucked strings.  A woman playing harpsichord is a simple enough hint to get us thinking on the virginals of 17th century Borroque or Renaissance period.  Sure I'm deviating from the literal and suggesting an alternative, but its not to make up or invent some pointless connection.  There is nothing wrong with looking at the following possibilities: a statue, a painting, a street name that might have something in common with a particular woman famous for playing harpsichord, or some kind of stripped down comparison like a rectangled shape with parallel lines that involves the playing of a woman...yes, something not musical at all. I might simply be wrong about the Ivan Mestrovic statue, but I'm not wrong about a woman holding a baby as a representation of lullaby.  For all we know there is some connection to the well known composition Silent Night.  Round yon "virginal" mother and child.... The analytics of Preiss' words should still continue and even the seemingly pointless or trivial ideas might one day triumph. I should add that I'm still not fixed in my view that "silently playing"  is coupled with the harpsichord.

to me most importantly this idea lacks the Oh Yeah! Thats it, I get it factor." Which every clue in the found casques has. Each clue once solved has basically been obvious. In the examples we have,  what clues has been similarly obtuse? The clue stated harpsichord, not virginal yet neither are associated with the statue, beyond a wikipedia article stating an instrument is typically played by women. I agree the analytics should continue. however we need to fit the ideas to the verses not the verses to the ideas. how easy it is to step from its a statue of a woman to women play virginals, to Round yon virginal, Ah the verse has something to do with "Silent Night"  suddenly you are researching stuff that while interesting has nothing to do with BPs treasure hunt. I certainly dont want to marginalize any of your ideas, you have come up with some great ones. But if I think you come up with one that is out of left field. I will say so, as always, feel free to ignore anything I say- I have been wrong many many many times.

I like the Oh Yeah! Reconciliation idea.  At some point I hope one of my Oh Huh?! Ideas pans out.

Unknown: Things considered to be wonders of the world include several statues, with the Colossus of Rhodes and the Statue of Zeus at Olympia among the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World and the Moai of Easter Island considered for inclusion in various lists of wonders of the modern world. As you walk the beating of the world Considering "beating" could also be "beading" as in a thread adorned with beads.  A bead could be an off reference to prayer as an object reference to some alternate significance.  I wonder if there's a subtle hint to something like an "art walk".  Walking along a path to observe several select points of artistry. Something else to consider is the "of the world" section of that line with regard to the "Wonders of the world ". I risk a quote from the dreaded wikipedia... In correlation, I wonder if there's a smart way to link well known statues and other artistic or architectural points to the Verse and Image.  I say it's worth a shot.

Erexere, A while ago, I found this reference to "Kenwood"...as the name of the street we were to follow from Mitchell Hall.... This may help us to verify the starting point of the verse. (To which "Mitchell" building was BP referring?) View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world You pass Mitchell Hall on Kenwood Blvd. In the past, we have thought that Kenwood, because of its stereo speakers, may have been the "beating of the world" reference. But I just found out that Kenwood, since 1947, has also been a kitchen appliance manufacturer... specifically..."beaters"...or mixers. They introduced the double-beater! This makes more of the case for Mitchell Hall on Kenwood Blvd. as our point of origin...instead of the Mitchell Mansion on Wisconsin Ave. AP

AP, I forgot about that road name reference, thanks for the reminder.  I can easily buy that idea hook line and sinker as it really does put us on a viewable Mitchell.  Pardon my momentary reworking of that line.  It was fun while it lasted.  :D Let me add the point that the last part of the line "of the world" might work well as an egg reference.  A type of egg that is a "world egg" is an alternate name for the Cosmic Egg.  The Kenwood beater reference works very nicely since eggs are something beaten.

At a distance in space Herbert Hall Turner suggested the term Parsec (pc) in 1913.  It measures the parallax distance of 1 second. Astronomical Units (AU) also measure distance in space. Standard Candles are another alternative where Distance is a factor of brightness. All of these might seem like obscure jargon, but I'll speculate that something might connect to one of these.  Au is the periodic table abbr. for Gold (aurum) which might offer another possibility.  Turner Hall at 1034 N. 4th St. in Milwaukee is on the NRHP.  The Turners were a German gymnastics organization.  Perhaps the woman juggling is an interpretation of this.  I have nothing in the way of a candle motif.  Turner Hall is my favorite of the bunch.

A reminder, my narrated walking tour from this summer: hxxp://kspot.org/trove/lakepark/lakepark.htm Oak Leaf Trail = step on nature?

You take excellent photos. The 'G' you mentioned commonly found on lamp posts fascinates me.  I've been holding onto the idea that the letter G is a symbolic of a circular arrow, as in turn counter-clockwise.  Given how hard it is to determine where to begin on a path of sorts, I find it unlikely that a routine 'G' would be of any use to filling a gap between the steps of this puzzle.  Alas, we are still walking in circles with this one.

I included the "G" because of a theory we used to throw around. The "wonderstone" is the pic's jewel, so "the country of wonderstone's hearth" means "home of this pic's jewel," a.k.a. G ermany.

Was there ever any certainty about the 92 steps?  My guess is that's about how many steps the North Point Light Station has.  It's about 75 feet tall, 92 steps seems about right.  Anyone have verification? Ahh, I found it the second time around with Search.  So that is the exact count of steps for the Grand Stair and connecting steps ascending into the Lake Park.

Perhaps a "letter from the country" implies a STAMP of sorts.  In a different sense, what kind of things are known to "stamp"?  Would that pertain to any kind of animal or just ones with hooves?  I'm thinking of the word "stampede" as in a cattle stampede. Does this look like a possibility? The Kosciuszko Equestrian Statue off of Lincoln Ave which I believe makes a good case for a "Proud tall fifth" as he is a 1-star General (Generals may have up to 5-stars, and so 1/5 = fifth)

"Letter from the country" could imply stamp, yet it could also imply post, postal, envelope, stationary /stationery , address, RFD, rural, Mail/male and a myriad of other words. before you fixate on stamp, explain what clue in the verse or image, indicates that word as opposed to any of the others.

malted, I'm still thinking on how to answer your question, but I had something else to discuss. Those blue police call boxes... They are made of cast iron.  "Cast in copper" seems a good fit for a Lincoln connection, but let's take a moment to reconsider, since a term for a policeman is also "copper". I'm not sure why policemen are called "cops", I've seen a few different takes on the etymology.  My best guess is that it has to do with taking or seizing a criminal.  An element of irony there being that copping also means 'to steal'.  Perhaps playing with the juggling theme of the image, cop or 'to catch' might work.  There is also that line " pass the compass and reach " where those words might be used with playing ball or juggling. fb, I like how you focused on that police box in your selection of images.  I'd like to know more of the history on those boxes.  There's one near the Kozciuszko statue on the corner of Lincoln and 10th.  I feel like it's at least an option if there's an intersecting point to be made between the stamping horse hoof and the cast iron "copper" call box. You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot These four lines seem to go together to focus on one thing especially.  The letter is ON the thing which is proud which is also OF a German or perhaps Polish origin. Now about 'letter' and whether 'stamp' should be an appropriate premise.  I have considered some of those options suggested by maltedfalcon, including the possibility of Franklin as a distant hope, but only does 'stamp' feed my hunger for a sweet riddle.  Also, I have considered a stretch of a homonym where 'letter' could be 'leader', in which case I again like the Brigadier General, which is a decorated (proud) Polish (wonderstone's hearth) leader (letter).  I'm probably wrong about the latter where letter is leader, but it's part of a stream where I hesitate to become too focused on just one idea. Back to the Ken Wood Chef's mixer.  If Preiss figured out that cryptic relation to clue us in on the street name, then I think it's possible he knew Ken Wood established his workings in WOKING (Surrey, England).  Woking seems suspiciously like a homonym for 'walking'.  Which is a partial fit for the rebus 'Mill-Walk-Key' and brings about thematic concerns. Another issue to consider and one critical of my own perspective is how to explain the huge deviation from Lake Park to Ksciuszko Park.  Obviously a couple portions (40% of verse?) Puts us near Mitchell Hall and Kenwood and then Lake Parks' Grand Stair and Light Station.  The only ideas I have to make a significant leap of nealy 3 miles southwest is the two lnes that say 'At a distance'  twicely makes me suspicious.  What is the aim of focusing on 'time and space'?  Its like the Twilight Zone... I now think JUGGLING is thematic of mixing (ken wood) and anything related to catching and passing as if turning in a circular pattern shown in the image is the key to this.

I'm not ready to abandon the observation that 'cast in copper' isn't intended to draw our focus to a coin.  It may be helpful connecting us to Lincoln highway AND Lincoln Village.  There isn't anything saying it is only one and not the other except for a nearness of the highway only to Lake Park. The coin idea leads me to ask about minting or coining.  There are different modes of production of coins.  They can be cast, stamped, or milled.  The word 'coin' would also fit a colloquialism such as calling the Kenwood Chef a 'beater' or a Policeman a 'copper'.  Start wrapping your heads around thematic content and you'll see some justification for what you might be referring to as shoehorning.

wasnt the statue of lincoln (that has been moved since 1981) cast out of pennys that children donated?

Yes, Malted. It was back in the 1930s that the children collected pennies for the War Memorial statue of Lincoln. AP hxxp://www.warmemorialcenter.org/visito ... rials/#abe

Researching a bit about the Elks Lodge at the former E. Wisconsin location (demolished in 1971) it was called the "Wonderlodge". I haven't found any good photos of it, but there is a Stag mounted out front, near the waterfront.

The "beat" is colloquial for a policeman walking his route.  Perhaps this ties into the Kenwood beater for a 2:1 clue revolving around things which beat. I'm very intent on the 'Cast in copper' line as a reference to the police call boxes since discovering the term 'coppers' refers to policemen. However Preiss knew of the inventor of the kitchen mixer, I wonder if he delved into the inventor of the traffic light which is the brother of the man who patented these police call boxes for Milwaukee.  Oscar and Hugo Kleinsteuber. hxxp://patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/e ... awings.pdf

Wouldnt you think that police box /traffic light connection is so obscure  and the Internet wasnt available for easily finding obscure facts such as that. And BP specifically said the puzzles were simple and should be solved quickly, That has nothing to do with this puzzle.

I'm not ready to assign it as too obscure.  I'm thinking that traffic lights have a lot to do with the notion of timing and the use of space.  Im thinking that the two lines about distance, time, and space could be traffic light relevant. Again, not knowing how Preiss knew of Ken Wood or why he would focus on Mitchell Hall, we might not know which information is beyond his reach.  The internet is just as random or good as anyones guessing.

Erexere, BP did seem to be fond of parks. If he arrived in Milwaukee looking for a place to dig, the Lakefront Park would have been easy to access and have a lot of city landmarks nearby. It appears that he wanted to use the "take-a-walk-along-this-route"  type of clues for this verse.  Mitchell Hall was as good a place as any to start. AP

There seem to be Jewish connections near the location of Mitchell Hall to the original Milwaukee-Downer College...which maybe explains the Center for Jewish Studies later being located on Downer Ave. (1997). AP

Back in the day, before automated traffic signals, police would man the signal post, a semophore, where they would simply judge the traffick and direct or stop the flow as appropriate.  Its as if they were juggling cars. AP, I have yet to look at the Jewish type connections.  I was getting to that.

My german is pretty bad but I recall a line from the poem Earle Koenig. Where the words 'spiele spiel' means something like "playful speaking".  Perhaps 'Silently playing' is a german translation.  What would that be?  Stille spiele?  Hmm..maybe not. Sorry, translating across languages is not likely.  I feel like I'm running out of ideas. Of wonderstones hearth has my interest for the moment.  A hearth isn't strictly a fireplace.  It is specifically the base or bottom front area of a fireplace.  Wonderstone is a reddish and "marblized" kind of mineral.  I've thought before that it looks a lot like the red granite used in some statue bases such as the Lief Eriksson, Immigrant Mother, Lincoln (beardless), and the Kosciuszko equestrian statue.  Maybe the line is only to say "a reddish stone base." But red granite isn't wonderstone.  Wonderstone isn't always red and is mostly lined with orange to beige and yellow. The true name for wonderstone is greek, pyrophyllite, pyros (fire) + phyllos (leaf).  That would make wonderstone and hearth both "fire" clues within a context of stone.  The qualities of fire and stone carry the sense of temperature and color but also might be a literal chimney perhaps belonging to the country from the letter's origin.  Or maybe its just something "reddish" and something "hard" like a red oak tree. Of fire-leaf's base/floor/front...

Malted, I've been thinking more on your question for a better reasoning on how the word 'stamp' might be implicated and how it would then be connected to a horse's hoof.  I honestly can't say for certain, but I do like the implication derived from the line "at the southern foot".  Usage of the word foot and the fact that a stamp may be derived from a foot falling might help support my theory.  I believe this horse statue's foot which actually points south might be visually supported by the image.  It's hard to tell without a real up close look.  The millstone is just above eye level to the woman.  The hoof is above eye level to a viewer of the statue.  Spire's of a building, though not the Milwaukee city hall, are viewable in the background, the Basilica of St. Josephat has two tall points, the bell tower and the dome.

What do folks think of this attempt to juggle the verse?  I start on Kenwood, see Mitchell Hall, take Lincoln to the Grand Stair, ascend, walk 100 paces southeast to the parking lot that puts you on Oakleaf trail (step onto nature) pass the lighthouse, the bridge and the culvert (while not exactly climbing down into the ravine, just peering down to see it) and then *poof* At a distance in time and space...find Cityhall, continue southeast to Kosy Park, find the birches, and then find the tree that matches the outline in the cape, it's along the edge of the street near St. Josephat.  Perhaps there's a woman and harpsichord organ associated with that church. Maybe the line "southeast over rock and soil" follows the line "Below the bridge" instead.

I still have some problems to work out with the juggled verse. I'm thinking back to street names.  If "beating of the whirled" is Kenwood, then we shouldn't expect any of the lines to behave any differently.  "Southeast over rock and soil" might be Water which typically flows over such material as rock and soil.  "At a distance" could be the word Prospect which means "to look at a distance".  Lots of possibilities still need to be considered. Cast on copper, might not connect with Lincoln Memorial Drive but with Lincoln Avenue instead. Step on nature, the Oakleaf trail runs along the Lake Park to Downtown route already.  It doesn't make sense to call attention to both if they both parallel each other.

I don't know the area well enough to really have a good opinion. But I have seen that in  the two found casques the verses were completely linear starting from the iconic image and ending at the casque. While I havent found the casque in SF, using this methodology alone, helped me discover the lincoln park site, that I am sure holds or held the SF casque at one time. Assuming the verse was linear got me further along than I had been for many many years. So by starting at city hall in the view from image and head toward the east. the point where you cross from urban to park, fits perfectly "Step on nature" So Id feel resonably confident that this verse also is linear.

I like the linear perception as well.  Where to start is the big wildcard. Its a wild theory to say we start in Lake Park and end up in Kozy Park.  Looking at the nearest possible route to connect to Lincoln Ave from Lake Park and the Oakleaf trail puts me on 1st street.  I can't see anything in the verse or image that suggest "No.1" or "first" save for an even more wild idea with the two lines that basically read "..in time / From three" might be construed as the standard unit of time, a second, converted to the homonym of "2nd" and then meant as "two from three = 1".  Not an approach I'm proud of.

View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world At a distance in time From three who lived there At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing "At a distance in time from three who lived there...." refers to the three street names of Downer, Hackett and Shepard (historic Milwaukee resident names) which you pass along Kenwood Blvd. "At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing"... refers to Marietta Ave... Marietta is the name of another street as you pass along Kenwood Blvd. BP had to find some way to use Marietta as a clue. He probably looked for a famous woman named Marietta and came up with a painter,Marietta Robusto Tintorreto. Her only existing painting is a self-portrait of herself in front of a harpsichord. hxxp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qijUItx-tsQ/S ... retto-.jpg Just retracing the steps...

I like that breakdown very much but my instincts wont let me accept that.  I keep asking myself why the number three comes up so much.  I'm still very enthusiastic about the "stamp" of the horse statue as a letter from the country...that line was just so cryptic.  Perhaps there's a 3-cent stamp that would serve as a clue.  Is there a philatelist in the house?

The Turner organization apparently had a commemorative 3-cent stamp in 1948.  Interesting points are their primarilyvGerman heritage and their support of Abe.  They were like secret service during his inauguration and funeral.  I mention this as the verse has German and Lincoln context. The image10 has a woman juggling. Balls and props being passed in a circular patter seems like a simple way to represent "turning" likeba wheel but also lends a performance aspect.  Turners were gymnastic performers as well as other things.  Very active polically and unionwise. Turner Hall isn't far from City Hall so I don't think its a strong point of focus.  That it exists and is another "Hall" such as Mitchell Hall kind of draws my attention...but then my attention does wander... Just some thoughts.  What if Preiss drew his inspiration from stamp collecting?  That would be a Secret...

Reading more about harpsichords, I learned there are the Spinet type.  The word 'spinet' also makes me think of 'turner' or should I say "spin"="turn"? reviewing my thoughts on these two lines, From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing What's automatic?  Identifying a woman with a harpsichord is automatic.  Marietta is a great solution here. In terms of economic exchange, that is using as few words as possible to label something without putting forth the most common choice of words, what might be the acceptable alternatives? From woman.  What is "from woman"?  A baby. With harpsichord.  What goes "with" a harpsichord? A player? Hands/fingers? Music? A composer? Bach? A bench? A person sitting on the bench? A person standing with their hands outstretched in the position of playing an imaginary harpsichord? Allowing for a borrowed term from another line, "Ascend the Grand 200", reminds me of a type of piano.  A harpsichord is very similar to a piano.  There is a Grand piano and then there is a smaller version, the Baby Grand.  I wonder if "From woman" is intended to resonate with that idea.  Another musical idea might work with the word "three" being used three times.  A group of three notes may be considered a chord.  Perhaps our task is to decide which three notes...perhaps to match them to a person's initials? (I dread such a solution personally...I wouldn't know which three notes to pick) I like the idea of a "baby bench".  Perhaps there is a place with several benches and just one among them is a slightly smaller bench or there's a bench memorial to a baby. Silently.  Without words. Playing.  Horsing around. Horses don't speak words.  Could be "Silently playing" is a clue about a Horse statue.

Animal Painter, I just read that the German word origin for the verb 'walk' means "to knead".  That removes any doubt in my mind Ken Wood is our guy.

Would anyone be willing to see North Prospect Ave to East Wells Street as a fit for these lines, At a distance in time ... At a distance in space since prospect may mean "act of looking into the distance," and H.G. Wells (Ken Wood and Wells both from England) was referred to as "the Father of Science Fiction".  Space and Time are often topics in the science fiction genre. I see a possible theme arising, "Fathering", to do with creation or inventing:  Ken Wood, the father of the kitchen mixer,  H.G. Wells, the father of science fiction, and Germany, the "Fatherland". The verb "to father" may mean to create a child. The segment, "from woman" also seems like a clue about child creation. I'm now considering if "from three who lived there" means a mother, father, and child.  I don't know where to go from there.

more likely the lines a straight forward and clear if you are in the right place. and do not contain levels of hidden meaning

Is the casque buried at the southern foot of A. a statue B. a tree C. a bench D. a culvert E. all of the above F. none of the above ?

I'm beginning to see a pattern.   In juggling the objects recirculate.  This verse IS linear in most respects, but key lines have potential to be reused, which leads to a good explanation for how to start first at Mitchell Hall and then follow a trail south to Mitchell Street.  Step on nature and cast in copper get recycled also. I thought Kenwood to Oak Leaf Trail (along the edge of Lincoln Memorial Dr.) To Grand Staircase and back to Oak Leaf Trail. Then to Prospect and to Wells...and turn on Water..to the First [street] (first young = first kindergarten? Birch might be superfluous like it seems in the Cleveland solve...nobody ever placed a birch in that setting).

Update.  I'm shifting my view on this verse.  Let's not reorganize the lines.  I thought it might be justified by the image of the juggler as a motif of "juggling" lines.  That may still be the case, but in juggling the balls stay in a pattern, they come back to where they started, they don't necessarily get scrambled in their order.  Balls do get scrambled if the juggler means to do so, but let's start with the assumption that the pattern is kept.  In that sense the verse is largely linear.  My only suspicion now is that some lines are "recycled".  I think we encounter more than one Mitchell, more than one "Step on nature", more than one "Cast in copper" and clearly we have more than one "At a distance.." and more than one "Three".  It's been said "Step on nature" = Oak Leaf Trail, and I'm in agreement.  I think we start near Mitchell Hall at UWM along Kenwood Blvd and then step on the Oak Leaf Trail at the northwest tip of Lake Park and follow along the Lincoln Memorial Dr. route to the Grand Staircase where we leave the Oak Leaf Trail momentarily as we ascend back into the heart of the Lake Park and resume travel along a different branch of the Oak Leaf Trail continuing south past the compass (North Point...lighthouse) and continue past the bridges and culverts and then we leave the Oak Leaf Trail again to pass the compass (North Point...Park) and reach (North Point Water Tower) Prospect Ave. (At a distance..) and continue south till we hit Wells St. (Time and Space -elements of the science fiction genre of H.G. Wells)...and then we arrive at the south side of City Hall where we continue in a south direction till we come to another Mitchell (Historic Mitchell street).  It's in this way we will find the Milwaukee casque. I believe I've found a harpsichord location in 1981...and a woman who played it, her last name happens to be Mitchell.

Has anyone considered the Greek connection that a letter from the country might be LAMBDA? I'm thinking it might be a clue about an eatery specializing in serving GYROS, the Greek word for "spin", and a sandwich made with lamb meat. I have a fair amount of consideration for a theme about things involved with turning:  a key turns, a millstone turns, the Turner organization in Milwaukee, a woman with face turned, juggling in a circular motion might be considered turning, a kitchen mixer turns, water flowing down a drain (culvert) turns. Pyrophillite, the Greek word for wonderstone, hmm. It just occured to me that the foot of a culvert might be describing the bank of a river.  Perhaps the line is a cryptic reference to the kind of bank that is a financial institution.

Elisabeth Chojnacka is amazing at harpsichord.

The architecture of the Bank at 10th and Mitchell is very interesting.  I think its a candidate for the line about a culvert.

Okay, I'm not satisfied with the idea that we must find an actual harpsichord.  It simply doesn't play nice.  As if we're going to find a harpsichord in Lake Park... The Marietta street name based on the name of the self-portrait involving a harpsichord is pretty good, but it bothers me on a few levels.  How is it any different that many of the ideas I've put forth and been criticized for being too layered? I like the street name idea, but I wish to pursue an even more direct connection.  Let's just presume that "From woman," is one part of the line and it is a place we are in a position to move away from and heading towards "with harpsichord".  I think we should frame our perspective like this, "What NAME of a piece of music is played with a harpsichord?".  I'm driving for something by J.S. Bach.  I don't know how long the list is, but perhaps someone can help see if ANY of the compositions for harpsichord share a name with a street near Lake Park.

Here's a line of thinking, (have fun counting the layers...*sigh*), Alexander von Humboldt, since there is a Humboldt Street I'm looking for a connection.  He wrote a book called Kosmos.  The term Cosmos has a lot to do with space and time, the world, and also woman's make-up, cosmetics. From Humboldt- Cosmos, From Woman - 1980, sales women brought Avon beauty products to our front doors. with harpsichord - Brandenburg Concertos by Bach are played with harpsichord From Brandenburg - Humboldt. 1981, first American translation of Humboldt's book Kosmos (by a woman translator).

Pass the compass and reach I get the North Point part, but "reach" for what?  The hand with the bell shape...reach for a bell tower?  (I know Bellview Pl. is a good fit if I want to connect from Lake Park to Prospect Ave.)

Ascend the 92 steps, is assuredly the Grand Staircase. Could a 'grand 200' be considered "1000" 200s, which is basically "200,000"?' I'm finding a lot of associations that point to the St. Josaphat Basilica.  It has a lot of copper in it's dome.  It has two bell towers.  We see a bell shape in the palm of one of the woman's hands in image 10.  We don't know that there isn't a bell in the other hand, so one hand = one bell, two hands = two bells.  200,000 tons of scrap materials were purchased for $20,000 to build it.  I wonder if there's a historical marker or plaque at the site declaring these details...how did it get in the Wiki article? There are four clocks in the dome, each facing a compass direction.

It looks like it was there since the pages creation, 5 Oct. 2005. The verbiage was grabbed from hxxp://www3.jsonline.com/desk/histwis/archive3.asp . It also seems an "author" here hxxp://onmilwaukee.com/ent/articles/mamafterdarkday6.html ripped the verbiage recently.

.

I think I'm right. Mitchell Hall east to Grand Staircase and then west and onto Locust south on Humboldt, turn west on Water which curves south continue on Water past Solomon, Byron, and Daniel's streets merge onto 1st continuing south and turn west on Mitchell street find the Greek columns of the old bank on 11th and turn south stop at Becher and see the entrance of Kosciuszko Park to the east walk south on 10th along, staying on the west side of the park see a birch, three more, and then the tall pround 1/5th (5-star ranks of General) statue of Kosciuszko. Between this statue and the dome tip of St. Josaphat, there must be a way to determine the casque's location.

At a distance in time I still favor the word "prospect" as a swap for "at a distance".  The word's "in time" could take on a literal meaning such as the Clock Tower Acres where you would take 2nd street which actually passes through the building that's built over the roadway.  The result is literally traveling into "time" and then out of "time" as you pass through that threshold. Time could also be less to do with a clock and more to do with a period or interval.  Perhaps a bank, a place that operates primarily on the basis of giving loans, which are repaid over time. If the preceding or following line could give hint to a bank, then I'd be more into that perspective.

My biggest exception to this is basically you are rewriting clues. BP was a wordsmith. He knew how to choose his words carefully and in the two solved examples we find he used exactly the words he needed to.. Then we find some of those words had hidden meaning but the words were exactly correct. Yet the hidden meaning was secondary.

I like that words should be exactly correct.  Are you excluding homonyms?  Plain plane, world whirrled, etc?

Poland.  Thinking about it.

Unknown: A candidate of a different stamp had presented himself in the preceding year, the gallant, generous- spirited, Thaddeus Kosciuszko. He was a Pole of an ancient and noble family of Lithuania, and had been educated for the profession of arms at the military school at Warsaw, and subsequently in Prance. Dis- appointed in a love affair with a beautiful lady of rank with whom he had attempted to elope, he had emi- grated to this country, and came provided with a letter of introduction from Dr. Franklin to Washington. " What do you seek here ? " inquired the com- mander-in-chief. " To fight for American independence." " What can you do ? " "Try me." Washington was pleased with the curt, yet compre- hensive reply, and with his chivalrous air and spirit, and at once received him into his family as an aide-de- camp.* Congress shortly afterwards appointed him an engineer, with the rank of colonel. He proved a valu- able officer throughout the Revolution, and won an hon- orable and lasting name in our country. Among the regiments which had been formed in the spring, one had been named by its officers " The Congress's Own," and another " General Washington's Life Guards." A resolve of Congress promptly ap- peared, pronouncing those appellations improper, and ordering that they should be discontinued. Washing- ton's own modesty had already administered a corrective. In a letter to the President of Congress, he declared that the regiments had been so named without his Washington Irving wrote about Thaddeus Kosciuszko using the word stamp.  I think a stamp from Poland is relatable to a "letter from the country".

You'll see a letter from the country To say someone is a "person of letter" is to say they have a literary or educated background. The question is, how is this line relating to a distinguished person and from which country? Does the following line inform us of the country or does it stand alone? Of wonderstone's hearth Wonderstone = Pyrophyllite = Greek words for fire+leaf.  A hearth is related to "place of fire", an oven perhaps?  We have both words relating to fire.  Why fire?  Something hot?  Something the color of flame, yellow-orange-red? A fire hydrant, alarm, extinguisher, etc.?  Then the translated portion of leaf could only pertain to a tree.  My instincts and observations tell me this could be a Greek restaurant (oven) near a tree and fire hydrant. Back to an educated person (possibly of Greek origin), could be any school building or a particular person in the form of a statue. Getting back to basics:  Image 10 shows a woman juggling, the first line describes what is a perfect fit for Mitchell Hall, a place originally set as a place for teaching future educators.  The question is should this relate to a particular woman or any person in general who has to do with education and "juggling"?  I return to a previous thought which is recognized in the abundant clues having to do with "things that turn" (a key, a millstone, the shower pattern of juggled balls is a circle, the woman's head is turned, etc.), leading me to consider the Turner organization, which is very prevalent in Milwaukee's history.  Another line seems to fit perfectly a reference to President Lincoln, "cast in copper".  The Turners were close to Lincoln and represented his personal guard.  I see this as a good parallel to Washington Irving's account in the Life of George Washington where he speaks about Kosciuszko being personally selected by George Washington as his posse, that's right I said posse.

I just took a moment on Google street view to see that there is a fire hydrant about 10-20 paces away from the tree in front of the Mexican (architecturally stylized as Greek) restaurant at 821 W. Lincoln Ave.  I think the man of letters is Kosciuszco of Poland (Lithuania).  His statue is nearby and might be one of the markers necessary to pinpoint a specific dig spot.  I say statue, fire hydrant, and tree all work in concert.  I feel there must be a fourth point of reference.  All I can think of is the main dome spire of the nearby dome of St. Josaphat Basillica since it's very much like the City Hall which is depicted in the background of the image.  Look and compare.  I think it will spark some good discussion.  My only other thought is it's about lining up the tree with the restaurant and picking a spot centered between the two Greek columns but that doesn't seem as precise...I'm still looking for a fourth point of reference.  Wouldn't want to dig too close to the tree.

Using Mitchell Hall as a clue about education and the woman in the image 10, I have to wonder if it's a clue about Maria Montessori.  Teaching kids to take turns, share, and be spontaneous are goals in Montesssori education.  The Montessori school borders the north edge of Kosciuszko park.

Pass the compass I'd like to be a little more open minded about this line.  Saying it is the Northpoint lighthouse makes sense since that's the first nearest Northpoint reference south of the Grand Stair.  But there are other Northpoint references beyond that, in fact it's a good sized neighborhood extending beyond Lake Park towards the Downtown area including the Historic Northpoint Water Tower.  I would like to suggest that this is our exit from Lake Park line as we pass ALL Northpoint related markers and continue south/southwest. I'm seeing a lot of options available, like metaphoric balls being juggled interchangibly.  There's Mitchell Hall and then there's Historic Mitchell street.  There's Lincoln Memorial Dr. and then there's Lincoln Ave.  There's Lake Park and then there's a park with a lake (Kosciuszko).  A moment in time is a "second".  Perhaps we need to consider each reference starting with the Kenwood Blvd located Mitchell Hall has a second Mitchell related item to pair with it.  How many red balls is the woman juggling?  Two right?

The first line:  View the three stories of Mitchell Initially it's used to put us on Mitchell Hall and later where the casque is to be found, it plays a new role, looking for a "building" that represents a story somehow differently than having 3 floors might be a clever surprise and finding a connection again to Mitchell.  At this time, I don't have any sure candidates, but I'm stating my first line theory just the same. I really liked what I read in an article about a style of home called a "Polish Flat".  I wonder if that figures into this.  Milwaukee has a good concentration of those iconic homes.  Mitchell Street has many three story Polish flat homes.

I've always believed that the casque is buried just south of the Solomon Juneau statue given the image of Solomon on this side matches the woman in the pic. After reading your ideas about the first lines being used as a start and end I was a little skeptical but then remembered something I found earlier. From Wiki - "The property that is believed to have once been the site of Juneau's residence is now the site of the Mitchell Building, listed on the National Register of Historic Places."

That's a potentially interesting site.  The road names around the area also might fit well. Ever since reading Abroad in America, the last pages of which were about H.G. Wells, I've been thinking Wells street in Milwaukee might be a good place to bring in an H.G. Wells reference.  Those lines about space and time really invoked the sense of a Time Machine for me, but nothing concrete.  There was a book by J.L. Mitchell titled Three Go Back, which had an introduction by H.G. Wells.  There's a nice tie in to "three stories of Mitchell"...a story about three who go back in time by Mitchell. Hmm...must think on this some more.

If we can narrow this down to a definite place I'll drive up there, shovel in hand. Right now I wanna dig at the Solomon statue. I feel good about this one. Has anyone checked this site yet? Let's get on the ball on this one so I can go!

ha, you'll get lots of input for Lake Park, none for anywhere else except maybe the Juneau Park area. I personally find this the hardest verse to understand, and that's saying I just don't understand it.  There's a wide range of ideas going through this.  At a distance in space...at a distance in time...what does that mean?  The whole Ken Wood mixer line is practically divergent.  How does something like that fit into this?  And then there's the Woman with harpsichord, silently playing?  WTF. I think someone should at least get a utility probe and start ruling out some spots, especially near that Juneau Statue.  Might as well do the Leif Ericcson statue too.

I'll see what I can do about the time and space line. I know there's numerous lamp posts in the city shaped like harps. May be one near a woman (statue, street, etc.). This is the closest one to me so I figured I would really look into it.

look closely at animal painters posts. shadowrunner and forest_blight have many good photos to consider.

Found a copy of Three Go Back, by Mitchell.  After reading a bit, nothing jumps off the page.  It's a lot like the pilot of Lost.  Their ship breaks in half above an island, they wake up on the beach of the island of Atlantis 25,000 years ago and contend with Neaderthal inhabitants.  Ship wreck, time travel, cave men...something tells me I'm way off base here.

Deuce wrote:: I've always believed that the casque is buried just south of the Solomon Juneau statue given the image of Solomon on this side matches the woman in the pic. After reading your ideas about the first lines being used as a start and end I was a little skeptical but then remembered something I found earlier. From Wiki - "The property that is believed to have once been the site of Juneau's residence is now the site of the Mitchell Building, listed on the National Register of Historic Places." That's an interesting link. I've been trying to contact someone to look around Juneau Park for ages. hxxp://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... waukee.pdf I'm not aware that anyone has ever visited the place. I'd be particularly interested in getting some photos of the area around the south end of the park which is inaccessible on Google. I suspect the area directly around Juneau himself looks a bit pristine and exposed for a dig spot. I tried emailing the Juneau Park Friends for info but no reply.

I haven't read through every post on this image/verse but I think the veterans lagoon looks like the outline of the dress on the bottom right of the image. And this may be a little out there but I think the lagoon looks like the rough outline of a 3 and the road splits after the lagoon near the Juneau statue. "Pass three, staying west"? Just a thought.

Deuce wrote:: I think the veterans lagoon looks like the outline of the dress on the bottom right You'd need to post up suggested image matches graphically really, as people are unlikely to hunt them down. I still like this Lake Park match, though that doesn't do much for my Juneau Park theory... That dent in the cape halfway down on the left side has always annoyed me. If you equate it with that road intersection on the map, there's one of the Lake Park signs there. Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west I've always wondered vaguely about the south end of Lake Park. 100 paces from the lion bridge gets you back onto Lincoln, and it's been suggested that the "birch" was on the other side of the road. If you head west down Lincoln, you "pass three" on a road sign that's down by the beach. (Top red circle on the map below; forget the lower one. This is towards the bottom end of the cape shape.) Difficult to know what the tall proud fifth could be in this area though.

How was it figured that the country of wonderstones hearth was Germany?

I think it's Poland.

Germany is explicitly mentioned in the Litany of the Jewels (p. 21) as the origin of this painting's jewel: Dwarves' treasure: purple Amethyst Imperial star of Germany. Hence, "G" makes sense.

I understand that. But are we actually to take "wonderstone" to mean the jewel in the image? I mean wonderstone is a real type of rock found in different places throughout the world. I can't pinpoint where exactly Preiss is referring to. That is, if he isn't referring to the jewel. Would he make it so vague that we find any letter in "Germany" or other country? Just keeping options open.

This verse is such a headache. When I consider each line as it's own meaning I have the approach that gives us a much different result. You'll see a letter from the country, Let that stand alone and you might only think it refers to some person from some country who is educated, i.e. "a person of letters".  I believe this person is Thaddeus Kosciuszko of Poland. The next line might be disassociated and have it's own sense, not relating to Poland but to Greece or Rome. Of wonderstone's hearth, wonderstone = Pyrophyllite = Greek for "fire" + "leaf".  hearth = Hestia, goddess of home and hearth.  If I were to venture a guess based only on this, I'd want to consider a building with a chimney.  Now to go look and see if there are chimney'd houses near the Kosciuszko statue.

I've changed my mind about chimneys. Of wonderstone's hearth, in my breakdown is like saying "of fire and leaves" and it really makes me think of Ash, something which is the result of fire and is also the name of a thing of leaves, which is a tree.

Something strange happened... I had a dream last night that a group of us were digging for the casque in Milwaukee. Not sure where exactly we were digging but we went about 10 feet deep! At 10 feet we found a piece of paper that just had verse 8 on it. We climbed out of the hole and Preiss was there. He said we had the wrong location and to look at the proud, tall fifth and pointed to Solomon Juneau. Then he said Sol is the fifth. That's all I rermember. Sol is the fifth note of scale and is also short for Solomon. Wow.

Nice.

One of my contacts is having a look at this tree in front of Fiesta Garibaldi Restaurant at 821 W. Lincoln Ave. in Kosciuszko Park, Milwaukee. It's important that he take a close look to see if it fits the image in the illustration but also to see if it's an Ash species of tree.  I've been looking closely at the verse 8 and I think it makes more sense to separate the two lines "You'll see a letter from the country" and "Of wonderstone's hearth".  We are making a mistake to wrap the word "country" into "of wonderston's hearth".  I believe "You'll see a letter from the country" is just saying "You'll see a reference to an educated person from Poland".  The phrase "a person of letters" means a person with a high degree of education. "Of wonderstone's hearth" involves looking up the word wonderstone and learning it comes from the word Pyrophyllite which is two Greek words, pyros and phyllos, meaning fire and leaf.  "Of fire" and "of leaves" is a riddle for the Ash tree, since ash is the result of fire and leaves are the result of a tree.  In Greek, the Goddess of the hearth is Hestia.  I think it has to do with the home, perhaps it's chimney, or the homes in particular next to the park which are a well known style referred to as "Polish Flats".

Deuce wrote:: Something strange happened... I had a dream last night that a group of us were digging for the casque in Milwaukee. Not sure where exactly we were digging but we went about 10 feet deep! At 10 feet we found a piece of paper that just had verse 8 on it. We climbed out of the hole and Preiss was there. He said we had the wrong location and to look at the proud, tall fifth and pointed to Solomon Juneau. Then he said Sol is the fifth. That's all I rermember. Sol is the fifth note of scale and is also short for Solomon. Wow. Just found something interesting... Even after going over this image many times with a fine-tooth comb, I never noticed the bell in the woman's hand until I saw it mentioned on the forum a little bit ago. I think someone said it's a reference to a street name. If I missed that in the image, I don't have a chance with this hunt. Anyhow, totally unrelated to any theory I currently have, I decided to look up bells in Milwaukee just to see what I could find. I found the obvious, the City Hall bell. Knowing City Hall is in the image I thought it may be worth looking into a little further. There is an interesting history about the bell itself but I won't get into it. I found that the bell tones in the key of "G". Yep, that's right. "G", as in Germany. Well isn't that strange. Kind of a coincidence that "G" is the "fifth" note also known as "Sol". And as if that weren't enough to get me going, guess what the name of the bell is??.......... You got it, "Solomon Juneau"!

Thaddeus Kosciuoszko was born in a village and well educated = a man of letters from the country.  This is in the sense of urban vs rural.  He was educated in Warsaw. He is also decorated as a brigadier general, having 1 of 5 stars rank...a proud tall fifth, tall because he is on horseback. I think a straight line connecting his pointy hat with the belfry of St. Josaphat us right in front of the south side of the Ash tree at 821 W. Lincoln.

For this to work you need to find the statue of Kosciuszko and then walk in the direction of the Bell tower of St. Josaphat's Basilica.  You'll see this Ash tree  (I'm still speculating on it's identification as an Ash, btw) and that is where someone should get a probe and test the ground for a casque at the tree's southern foot. I pieced together a bunch of screenshots to approximate the best line from the hat on the Thaddeus statue to the tip of the belfry. Here's a zoom on that spot:

Deuce wrote:: I had a dream last night What an excellent dream. I like the bell theory too. The hand is one of the most obvious 5s in the pic, and it also uses City Hall. The Solomon Juneau bell...

ON a proud, tall fifth, This makes sense as I'm using the hat ON the statue of Thaddeus Kosciuszko as one of the points of reference. The other is the bell in the tower of the St. Josaphat, that's how I'm interpretting the bell in the hand.

Do you think we need permission just to probe the area? It shouldn't make a mess or anything. But it would really stink if we think we find something and can't dig it up.

Deuce wrote:: Something strange happened... I had a dream last night that a group of us were digging for the casque in Milwaukee. Not sure where exactly we were digging but we went about 10 feet deep! At 10 feet we found a piece of paper that just had verse 8 on it. We climbed out of the hole and Preiss was there. He said we had the wrong location and to look at the proud, tall fifth and pointed to Solomon Juneau. Then he said Sol is the fifth. That's all I rermember. Sol is the fifth note of scale and is also short for Solomon. Wow. I too sometimes think about answers so much that I start to dream about them. Interesting dream though..

As you can see there is a precedent set by image 4 in how the images can work as you get close to you're area.  The hat shape is probably from a different angle than what I had available to capture, so you'll have to imagine it's basic composition and see it does have a similar shape to the collar area.  We basically have three near visual confirmers and two lines in the verse relate to him, a man of letters from a rural village and a hat on a proud 1 star (5 stars max for rank of General) tall statue of a Brigadier General on horseback.  The aerial photo shows the outline of the path that is available from an overhead map of 1981 which fits the basic outline of the decollage.

I've been reworking my thoughts on the verse today and I have to admit there's some gaps, big gaps.  I don't know what to make of the woman and harpsichord line.  The main issue for my theory is putting forth a good reasoning to support a long journey from the obvious Lake Park area to the distant not-obvious Kosciuszko Park.  It's boggling.  I really like reverse engineering my conclusion to the point that it makes sense with the Birch trees I found on the west side of the park going up 10th to a spot where the northwest entrance to the park is actually 100 paces southeast of Windlake Road.  That's not obvious, it requires cutting through the back lot of some corner houses.  I don't know how that has changed in the last 30 years or even if there was ever a path that cut through or not.  I do think the outdoor field to the Montessori school was fenced back then as it is now.  I put in three calls to speak to the chief engineer for the school and still haven't got a call back.  It's not really so important to fact check that at this juncture.  I think it's worth looking into how Windlake Road is determined...it must run back to the downtown and into Lincoln Memorial in order to pass the Juneau statue and descend the Grand Stair to the path that wraps around to Mitchell Hall on Kenwood. Those strange lines about being at a distance in space and in time don't fully explain the leaps necessary to get to Kosciuszko.  I'd like to see it flow.  I can't accept it as a jump around verse.

maybe it's not Windlake but 11th instead coming from Mitchell st.  That then takes us to/from the old Bank with greek columns. A bank = the foot of a culvert, that's for sure.

I'm stuck on the "pass three" part. Somehow I need to get from Lake Park to the Juneau statue with that verse. That is if my theory holds water. Another hang up I have is why make us take all these small steps through Lake Park just to end up back on Lincoln Mem Dr?

Deuce wrote:: I'm stuck on the "pass three" part. Somehow I need to get from Lake Park to the Juneau statue with that verse. That is if my theory holds water. Another hang up I have is why make us take all these small steps through Lake Park just to end up back on Lincoln Mem Dr? I like you're approach.  The preceding line mentions a "first birch", so it's easy to assume "pass three" applies to more birch trees, but if we dissociate and think to apply it to three other things, we have no real indication of what type of thing we're looking for, thus making what should be easy (with respect to starting at the right place) instead very challenging. I haven't really asked that question before, perhaps there is a specific reason to take us through Lake Park.  If we look for meaning in each reference, we might start with Mitchell Hall and consider it having to do with the history of educators in Milwaukee.  Taking a moment to consider how that information has helped me interpret the poem I might be rewarded with the conclusion that the line "You'll see a letter from the country" is about a phrase having to do with a well educated person, "a person of letters".  The lines that take us into Lake Park are about ascending a stair.  I don't know yet how that helps interpret later lines.

silently playing Thinking of a tennis court.  The instrument used to play is called a "racket", which in alternate meaning would apply to being noisy, which is opposite to being "silent".  If Preiss chose to reference the courts at a time when nobody was actively playing, a time when there were no racket's present, then that might equate to "silently" playing.  The word "court" is also of interest as it could alternatively mean to flirt or curry favor, which seems somewhat interchangeable with "playing".  Let's say Person-A is said to be playing Person-B in order to gain influence.  It could be said Person-A is courting Person-B as a means of personal gain or invitation. Would there have been Tennis Courts in Lake Park in 1981?

digger7 wrote:: I believe Egbert came up with the 3-story building called Mitchell Hall on the campus of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee it is at the corner of E. Kenwood Blvd and Downer Street. The next 3 cross streets Hackett, Summit, and Sheppard are all named for people that lived in Milwaukee. Not sure to whom to attribute this discovery. Marietta Ave is the same name as Marietta Robusti a woman whose only confirmed piece of work was a painting called Self Portrait of herself playing a harpsichord.  Not sure to whom to attribute this discovery. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marietta_Robusti From woman, with harpsichord ew I think I've said this before, now I'm saying it again, if each part of this line with comma separation is viewed on it's own but both being about the same thing, then we are asking a few specific questions: What is "From woman"?  A child What type of harpsichord is played with a woman? A Mother-and-Child virginal. Both parts of the line are essentially linkable to the phrase "mother and child". That might be the right approach.  The answer might simply be a link to Marrietta Ave.  I really think this could make sense this way, Mitchell Hall = education Kenwood Blvd = kitchen mixer Three who lived there = three street names going east on Kenwood From woman, with harpsichord = turn south on Marietta Ave [image] turn east on Locust Ave, into Lake Park Silently playing = tennis courts to the northeast Step on nature = Oak Leaf Trail northeast Cast in Copper = Lincoln Memorial Dr to Grand Stair Then there's a big leap past North Point to the southwest as you reach...

Going off of your "silently playing" idea being a sport, I would think about golf rather than tennis. Everyone must be quiet while someone swings the club. This could reference the golf course and even the two red balls in the image as a tee box.

erexere wrote:: From woman, with harpsichord ew I think I've said this before, now I'm saying it again, if each part of this line with comma separation is viewed on it's own but both being about the same thing, then we are asking a few specific questions: What is "From woman"?  A child What type of harpsichord is played with a woman? A Mother-and-Child virginal. Both parts of the line are essentially linkable to the phrase "mother and child". That might be the right approach.  The answer might simply be a link to Marrietta Ave. I can see the first part "A Child" but the then you go back to woman wouldn't your logic actually indicate A child with harpsichord?

I also can't help but notice a possible harp in the womans hair in the image. Just right of her forehead.

Deuce wrote:: Going off of your "silently playing" idea being a sport, I would think about golf rather than tennis. Everyone must be quiet while someone swings the club. This could reference the golf course and even the two red balls in the image as a tee box. That works too! maltedfalcon, yeah, I thought that logic was fuzzy.  Marietta just fits, but in case there is some extra reason to put the line that way, it might suggest a "woman and child" reference for an alternate purpose put to use later in the journey.  I'm leaning towards the idea of Maria Montessori, a woman with method for educating children.

so a friend of mine's, elderly mother, thinks she saw vermeer's Woman at a virginal at the Milwaukee museum of art in the 70's or 80s I haven't been able to find anything to confirm this story. Currently the painting is owned by and kept at the London National Gallery hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Stand ... a_Virginal how does one find out if it ever toured to milwaukee  or perhaps there is a copy there.

maltedfalcon wrote:: so a friend of mine's, elderly mother, thinks she saw vermeer's Woman at a virginal at the Milwaukee museum of art in the 70's or 80s I haven't been able to find anything to confirm this story. Currently the painting is owned by and kept at the London National Gallery hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Stand ... a_Virginal how does one find out if it ever toured to milwaukee  or perhaps there is a copy there. hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=EZxWaNlQKiYC&lpg=PA602&dq=Johannes%20Vermeer%20milwaukee&pg=PA406#v=onepage&q=Virginal%20&f=false Pg 406 - middle/bottom of second column talks about where the painting has been exhibited and when. i'm not certain that this is comprehensive.

My analysis that leads to the idea of kindergarten is a weak one.  It does echo the German culture and even has some neighboring connection to the Turners, but that's not a direct support of the idea. The best fit I've found, is to forget Kindergarten and stick with Education and the Turners.  The connection is an ancient Greek word Gymnasium.  In the American standard it is seen as simply a place for physical education but in other cultures it is seen as a place of higher learning such as humanities and languages.  For this hunt the gial of simplification into a primary thematic and cultural bias supported by some ancient Greek or Roman standard for a flair of style.

Unknown: Marietta was born and died in Venice, the eldest daughter of the painter Jacopo Robusti, from whom she inherited her nickname, la Tintoretta (translated as "little dyer girl", after Jocopo’s father’s occupation as a tintore, or dyer). She is thus variously known as Marietta Robusti, Marietta Tintoretto, and la Tintoretta. That reference to Marietta has bothered me for some time because she's of Italian origin.  I think we should stick with the German related or Polish possibilities first, and yet Preiss found it necessary to divert our attention to a variety of streets, three who lived there plus the Italian when we couldve just taken Kenwood directly to Lake Park. I've been thinking of the Grimm tales.  What if Marietta is Little Red (dye is a coloring) Cap (or Hood).  Her job is to take some bread and wine to Granny's a half a league away and she learns the lesson to not wander off the path in search of pretty flowers.  Our goal might begin with Mitchell Hall but also the notion of "Once upon a time" and we are sppose to stay on the path like in the story.  What if we are to find not one but three significant buildings in honor of Alexander Mitchell?  Start with Mitchell Hall, then the historic Mitchell Building on Michigan street and then the Mitchell Street Bank. Here's a large patched together map of the Milwaukee path, download the larger image from the link if you can't see the small writing, hxxp://s11.photobucket.com/user/erexere ... 0.png.html

It's a good theory and process. The only issue I have is if Preiss wants to take us on a tour of various Mitchell's throughout the city, why all the little steps through Lake Park? Why not go from Mitchell Hall to say Lincoln Dr then south? You could skip the whole grand staircase. But this makes us actually back track and use the stairs to reenter the park that we just exited. Not to blow up your idea. Just some questions as to its validity.

Deuce, as you can see I've explored two main areas separated by a long trek down Water and 1st.  I didn't apply my previous method of recycling lines or taking things out of order either.  Some lines are put down before you actually encounter what they refer to such as the At a distance lines and I think it's okay given the way they are structured.  At a distance in time / From three who lived there, uses the word 'from' to say we're to expect a distance in time to resolve itself afterwards. I think the Lake Park area allows us to be fooled and Preiss led us through it in that way for effect.  Lake Park has it all, Northpoint Lighthouse, culverts, bridges, and more.  I think it's never been made for certain that Lake Park had birch trees.  I believe that some trees which were thought to be birch were later recognized to be not so.  That isn't to say there weren't at one time birch trees that have been since removed.  However you look at it, it seems irregular to enter at Locust and curl around the the north park area and then return to the middle after climbing the Grand Stair.  Perhaps that should be seen as a Little Red Cap motif of leaving and returning to the direct route like we encountered with Marietta and Locust interrupting the straight path Kenwood takes to the tip entrance of Lake Park.  I'm really getting behind the Grimm story reference.  I'm not trying to shoehorn it and get the landscape to fit every little piece of the story.  I'm just taking it's basic essence, "once upon a time...there was a girl who left the path to go look for flowers, which allowed bad things to happen". I believe Preiss plays with this Grimm tale and does a fantastic job meeting a rich criteria that includes cultural and architectural bias.  Cleveland is already the easy solution, this one is dyed from a tougher cloth.  Assuming you've nearly solved it by cutting your investigations short and searching every nook and cranny of Lake Park is exactly the challenge Preiss set forth.

I understand your reasoning. When I go up there I won't have a ton of time to try out every single idea. I just want to make sure any theory put forth is a real possibility before I trek around the whole city and waste time. Like I said before, when I go it will be for pictures and probing. Then based on anything found I might set up a dig later. Maybe (hopefully) I will find something and we can set something up.

Deuce wrote:: I understand your reasoning. When I go up there I won't have a ton of time to try out every single idea. I just want to make sure any theory put forth is a real possibility before I trek around the whole city and waste time. Like I said before, when I go it will be for pictures and probing. Then based on anything found I might set up a dig later. Maybe (hopefully) I will find something and we can set somehing up. absolutely! This is an unusual theory for me and I end up tossing out a lot of my old ideas which have a tendency of breaking from tradition.  This theory follows the Chicago and Cleveland methodology which is an unexpected surprise for me. 1. Identify a key perspective: start at Mitchell Hall 2. Follow general directions, pass or cross when instructed, if something seems indicated by verse or image it could indicate a turn or change in direction. 3. Look for the primary visual reference 4. Consider all the options and verse for orientation on the casque location The image has a woman with hands gestering to the left of frame and her face is turned to the right of frame with the belfry and dome high in the back-upper-right side of frame.  I think the primary reference is the tree in her cape and when standing at that tree there are just two main points of reference, the cap of Kosciuszko to the west and the bell of the belfry of St. Josaphat to the east.

Deuce wrote:: When I go up there I won't have a ton of time to try out every single idea. Planning a trip then? That would be great. Incidentally apart from the Image 10 and Verse 8 threads, there's quite a few posts in this one in case you missed it. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i ... pic=3000.0 There's also a bunch of other short Milwaukee threads. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i ... pic=4652.0 hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i ... pic=4657.0 hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i ... pic=4947.0 hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i ... pic=5361.0 hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i ... pic=5555.0 While I agree with Juneau as a possible fifth, I still think "its southern foot" may refer to the park rather than the statue. The only pic of this area I've ever seen is in this PDF about the "pollinator garden". hxxp://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/pollin ... Report.pdf (This is also quite close to the Art Museum if that's where the harpsichordist was.)

Alright. I'm going to Milwaukee this week. I'll have a little time to check possible sites besides my own. Anyone that wants me to check on something let me know. Be specific though so I'm not chasing my tail. As of now I'll be in Lake Park, Juneau Park (WR, I'll check out the southern foot), and Kos Park.

I hope you find.

Enjoy. Take lots of pics!

Deuce, please point your camera at the following places: 1. E. State street and Water, facing south towards City Hall. 2. South side of Kosy Park standing on south side of tree just a few feet west of and across from Fiesta Garibaldi restaurant at 821 W. Lincoln Ave., point camera east towards St. Josaphat's Belfry and point camera west towards the Thaddeus Kosciuszko statue. Do you plan to probe?  If so, what are the specs of the tool?

ex, I will try to get those pics. Yes I got permission to probe. I have a fiberglass probe 48 inches long and half inch diameter. Shouldn't be any deeper than 3.5 feet according to the book.

fox wrote:: One concern I have with the 92 steps equalling the Grand 200 is just that. "Ascend the 92 steps After climbing the grand 200" you are to go up the 92 steps AFTER the "grand" 200.  are there 200 more steps you can ascend before the 92?  just confused. There's 95 steps, which has led to several questions which I won't bother reviewing because it's my belief that the question that we should be asking is only this, "Why are we not told to ascend the last three steps?" In the strictest sense we stop three steps short of the top of the Grand Staircase.  What do we do next?  We turn around and climb [down] the Grand "2C" shaped stairs and resume our journey south and "pass the compass and reach", which I believe to mean the tall water tower in North Point Park.  I've been thinking the "foot of the culvert" means the edge or bank of a waterway as a transition to an actual Bank building but I find that to be erroneous since the "foot" of something refers to it's base or the bottom.  The bottom or lowest point of "the culvert" is our clue but we are not sure what waterway is in reference.  I'm going to make a leap to consider it's the "bottom of the ocean" and "below the bridge" is in reference to a ship named the Abraham Lincoln.  I'm looking at 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea.  Below the bridge of the Abram Lincoln is the Nautilus of Capt. Nemo. The first lines of this verse are good clues to consider the distance unit called a "league", the distance a person walks in about an hour.  As you walk = a league, "the beating of the world" = Nemo's fight with civilization.  I'm basically reinterpreting the line that has been thought to lead to Kenwood Blvd. I the verse uses the repetition of lines "at a distance in...time/space" to mean "two leagues", or some distance about 6 miles from Mitchell Hall.

Oh no, I've just killed my old theory.  I'm not sure where this goes yet, but I think it's still close to Kosy Park at about 5.5 miles by ruler and something greater than 6 miles by driving. If we start at Mitchell Hall, meander around the entrance of Lake Park and then onto Lincoln Memorial Drive, it's possible to continue on south to Exit 3, Port of Milwaukee, which puts you nearly directly onto Lincoln Ave.

I'm making progress...filling up my desktops recycle bin. As you walk the beating of the world If you think about it, the unit of distance it takes to walk in one hour fits this line.  The event of the world being beat might be called its "final hour".  As you walk an hour = a league. I don't know if that necessarily dissuades us from the Ken Wood theory but it may be our best hint at how to regard the deceptive assumption that Lake Park is the destination...rather than just a stopping point on the journey.

Just compiling a few bits of leg related items, Line 2, walk Line 7, [tennis shoes?] Line 8, step, step on [toes?] Line 9, cast, used to mend a broken leg Line 10, steps Line 11, climbing = c_limb_ing = limb = leg Line 13, foot Line 15, walk Line 22, foot This journey of legs begins at Alexander Mitchell's Hall.  Does it end at the legs of Kosciuszko's steed, standing on three legs? Funky reverse rebus idea: All Legs And Tour = Alexander.  Does that echo the Mill Walkingstick Key rebus?

I've reconsidered the section of verse that follows the 92 steps and ends with 100 paces.  It seems to make too good of sense to continue to clime the final three steps, walk south in Lake Park to the culvert below the Lion Bridges and walk 100 paces to the Lincoln Memorial Drive.  I'm sure at least one person on this site is also in favor of that hypothesis. The next dot to connect is "to the first young...".  I wonder if there is a birch at all...

I keep thinking about three somethings and legs/feet.  Three stories, three who lived there, three steps after 92, pass three... should 3rd street be a consideration at some point? And the mention of a fifth, perhaps we should look for a third...Third Ward = in the direction of three?

A few thoughts I thought I'd share: I was just reading some and read, "The bridge spans were composed of six large steel arches. The two hinged arches were designed to carry live loads of 100 pounds pwe square foot. Each arch was connected with 16 decorative cross struts to the other five arches in the span." Naturally, "... five arches..." caught my attention, and so I reread and noticed "strut". On a proud, tall fifth The two best definitions for strut are something that is either proud and/or tall, no? Not that I think it is on the fifth strut or anything, just pondering that darn fifth!

Unknown: When harpsichord and clavichord building in the United States was revived in the 1930s, it was due mainly to a pair of Dolmetsch's disciples, John Challis and Julius Wahl.  Challis learned the craft of harpsichord and clavichord making in Haslemere and on his return to his native Michigan in 1931, began to build them. 421, I like that link to struts.  I will continue to consider it.  Not ruling it out yet. Here's an idea I have about the line "from woman, with harpsichord".  In an abstract way it fits to the street Marietta ave.  What if it's also a way of using a map of the city to draw a straight line along Marietta extending beyond Locust and into a small cross section of Lake Park along Wahl street?  I was curious to see if the name Wahl had any link to harpsichords, since the idea of taking the line "from woman" sufficed for that part of the line I wondered if something else connected to the "with harpsichord" part such as a Harp Street lamp or something.  The street name seemed like a prime choice given the names of streets are already in the works.  So here's what I found in The Harpsichord and Clavichord: An Encyclopedia: Here's the line extending from Marietta, I want to add that the name Challis reminds me of the word calice which could mean either "a cup" or "silence".

Walk 100 paces I really have to remember that this doesn't tell us which direction.  Just because the next line is "Southeast over rock and soil", that doesn't mean we walk 100 paces southeast. I'm going to go over my notes again and consider what new points of interest pop up if we consider 360 degrees of travel from where spots "below the bridge" leave us.

I've been making the mistake of thinking of 1 pace as one step.  I think it's more correct to use every other step distance which is about 2m. My most curious find is the birch tree nearest the street and on the west side of Kosy park, from that you pass three more as you walk about 200m or 100 paces southeast to the statue.

I'm no doubt rehashing... I keep thinking of why Preiss would use the word "beating" if not to at least get us thinking about the heart.  The same goes for why he would use the word "hearth".  The connection might simply be LOVE.  He doesn't use the word love, or have much of anything else that might be construed as such.  I would just be open to considering some goal in this Milwaukee quest to be associated with that which is loved greatly.  Could it be a building, a statue, an ideal, a child, a woman, a tree, some other art piece, or a hero? I'm very drawn to the idea that the line "Of wonderstone's hearth" equates to "Ash" which in turn leads to that which rises from ashes, the Phoenix of Greek myth.  A modern usage of the word phoenix is to describe an exceptional person, or even one who is much loved or held in the highest regard. I think there's a path in this criteria that leads to Kosciuszko.

erexere wrote:: I've been making the mistake of thinking of 1 pace as one step.  I think it's more correct to use every other step distance which is about 2m. pace = 1 step or about 30 inches. hxxp://www.thefreedictionary.com/pace

maltedfalcon wrote:: pace = 1 step or about 30 inches. hxxp://www.thefreedictionary.com/pace That is definition 2.  Definition 3.c  says it's 58.1 inches.  How screwed up is that? Pace n. 1. A step made in walking; a stride. 2. A unit of length equal to 30 inches (0.76 meter). 3. The distance spanned by a step or stride, especially: a. The modern version of the Roman pace, measuring five English feet. Also called geometric pace. b. Thirty inches at quick marching time or 36 at double time. c. Five Roman feet or 58.1 English inches, measured from the point at which the heel of one foot is raised to the point at which it is set down again after an intervening step by the other foot

... but it is also Should we hit the supermarket isle? Probably not.

varin wrote:: Here's the pics... hxxp://www.varin.org/gallery/LakePark Does anyone have these pics? I noticed some of these older ones are starting to disappear. I don't mind storing pics in my personal hard drives or we could make a community Flickr account, I hear they give a TB now.

Here's a nice article about a climb having to do with 200,000 tons of material salvaged from a Chicago building demo to be used as the stone in the building the Basilica of St. Josaphat, hxxp://onmilwaukee.com/visitors/article ... tml?page=1 200,000 = a grand 200, or 1000 x 200.

rookhunter wrote:: Does anyone have these pics? I noticed some of these older ones are starting to disappear. I don't mind storing pics in my personal hard drives or we could make a community Flickr account, I hear they give a TB now. Much, or even all, of varin's pictures are still available using the Internet Archive "Wayback Machine" (archive.org).

forest_blight wrote:: Much, or even all, of varin's pictures are still available using the Internet Archive "Wayback Machine" (archive.org). Thank you kindly, never heard of that site. I think I will go around saving these and putting all the pics in an easy to find album(s).

Reevaluating the first line: View the three stories of Mitchell Another word for a story is an "account".  A bank also has accounts.  The historic Mitchell Street Bank just looks too Greek to be avoided.  The point is to make the association to a bank and then figure out the alternate definition: similar objects in a row.  View the three stories of Mitchell becomes "view three things in a row".  The double entendre of this is that the jewish etymology of the word 'bank' comes from 'bench'.  There are a row of four benches on the west side of Kosciuszko and a row of three to his east.  I believe that when you dig, you must be actually looking at the three benches.  This might not mean you dig right at the benches, but if you did, I'd recommend digging at the spot just off their south side.  I think you still must draw a connection between the statue's hat and a tree nearby, which I'm confident I've identified, but still waiting for good photos from someone surveying the site.  Maybe this is where you use the 100 paces line.  The tree is southeast of Kosciuszko.  Start at the tree and walk directly towards the tip of the hat and stop at 100 paces, facing the three benches. I like that this version takes the seeker a good distance from the statue.  Put a blanket down and slow trowel it through the false bottom of a picnic basket.

Sadly most of Varins pics were not available. The thumbs showed she took very comprehensive pics. Maybe someone else will go and photograph the area.

I have never chimed in on this casque because aside from Montreal it is the last place I would probably end up(because of distance). However reading the whole thread and saving photos got me thinking about the whole puzzle so here I go Rook Hunter's .02 on Milwaukee It seems the whole area is correct. Forrest and the others were in the right vicinity. So the question is which Proud 5th? Well it is a tree that is obvious. Nothing else in the vicinity is tall and proud. Not much of anything to be honest. Its not a lamp post or anything else around there but I think the lamp posts are important. Pass three might be referring to 3 lamp posts. Staying west would indicate the direction. Once you have direction you can easily count 5. Now I doubt the trees all survived but it looks from the pictures like there would have been room for at least 5 trees. Ill bet my moustache it's on those beach trees. Deuce said there was concrete at about 1 1/2 feet  but isn't that the depth they were found at anyways?

This is a very difficult verse to pin down.  I'm completely baffled by it. One thing that bothers me about most interpretations is the idea that a proud tall fifth is a tree.  The verse puts us on the subject of birch trees, and passing three (possibly more birch, possibly just something which is "three"), and then a letter from the country / of wonderstone's hearth / on a proud tall fifth doesn't exactly inspire the idea of a tree.  The word "ON" suggests the "proud tall fifth" has some kind of thing on it that is important.  Depending on what it is, we aren't at liberty to decide what association to make.  The word "proud" means a lot more than just being a birch tree.  It may not be a tree at all.  Whatever it is, is it decorated or distinguished in some way?  Is it up on a pedestal or is it like a parent surrounded by many children, bigger taller, than other things in it's surroundings.  Is it positionally importanted, having several things pointing in it's direction or some kind of thing which receives homage. The best attempt to take "proud" into consideration is mention of the lions at the bridges.  I don't think that's the right idea, but it was a good try. My thoughts on linking "fifth" to the status of a 1-star(max 5-star) Brigadier General which is a position of decoration and honor, makes the most sense for being a "proud tall fifth".  Erastus B. Wolcott and Thaddeus Kosciuszko are the only choices I'm aware of in the Milwaukee area that seem like good options.

The tree you have marked as 5 is where I dug. I took a "pace" as 36 inches. Across the street is where it took me. I then remembered a conversation I had with the Lake Park Friends. When asking for permission to dig there they said not in the park but the beach side of the street was fair game. So when my paces took me there I thought maybe Preiss knew that as well. So I looked at the trees there and came across that one. I also thought, like rookhunter, there may have been trees removed and this might be our "fifth". Then I saw the tree up close and thought it looked familiar. That's why I dug there.

rookhunter wrote:: which Proud 5th? Well it is a tree that is obvious I agree with Erexere...could be a tree, but I think it was deliberately left ambiguous.

Deuce wrote:: The tree you have marked as 5 is where I dug. I took a "pace" as 36 inches. Across the street is where it took me. I then remembered a conversation I had with the Lake Park Friends. When asking for permission to dig there they said not in the park but the beach side of the street was fair game. So when my paces took me there I thought maybe Preiss knew that as well. So I looked at the trees there and came across that one. I also thought, like rookhunter, there may have been trees removed and this might be our "fifth". Then I saw the tree up close and thought it looked familiar. That's why I dug there. Ah ok I thought it was the one right  in front of where the group dug. Looks like erosion is taking its toll on that part of the park. At this point I would dig on the southern foot of every tree that looked like the one in the cape.

The 92 steps of the staircases at the Plankington Arcade on Wisconsin (formerly known as Grand Ave.) is the key to this puzzle. If three lines of the poem fit that one spot, the wishing well, the number of steps, and Grand Ave., that puts a lot of importance on that location.  Following the instructions to climb the stairs means you have just traveled in a circular path (flattened) and now you're wondering WTF did Preiss want me to walk in circle?  The next line "pass the compass and reach" fits, since a compass is a tool used to draw a circle.  I propose that the circle of stairs is the "locus" of a larger circle.  The question then is what determins the radius of that larger circle?  How about the tangent of Locust Ave?  Next question, where's a good place to bury a casque near wherever that large circle passes?  How about a spot near 200 degrees? Some other random thoughts, From woman, with harpsichord From woman = child, born to play harpsichord Maybe this fits some of the speculation that there's a "helmet" connection to many of these puzzles.  A "secrete" was a form of skullcap helmet and this is the first time I ever heard of a caul while reading about Polish wunderkind "Walter" Valentino Liberace, who was a child prodigy pianist who's first regular paying job was at the Plankington Hotel's Red Room, the site of the circle of stairs. Does the cowl worn by the woman in image 10 act as a clue to consider a child known to be born with a "caul", meaning they will be lucky or successful?  I found a citation from a book published in 2000.  Would be nice to see the citation that book used.  Was there a famous interview around 1980 where Liberace spoke of his birth story?  I have to wonder if Liberace's importance to this puzzle is simply to connect his middle name Valentino with the name of the fantasy fiction character Lord Valentine, the juggler, Lord Valentine's Castle was published by Bantam Books Publishing in 1980, it won the Locus Award in 1981. "The locus of a point moving at a fixed distance from a center point is a circle". The word "locus" is found in the word "locust". This is making me dizzy.

Ooh, just found that Silverberg collaborated with Preiss on a project.  The Ultimate Dinosaur (1992).  It might be assumed they were chummy enough a decade previous that it was cool for Preiss to use a juggler/Valentine motif for use in the Milwaukee puzzle.

Millstone and wonderstone: Millstones pulverize material by the action of turning, usually assembled as a runner over a bedstone.  The line "Of wonderstone's hearth" may have a connection to the theme of rotation.  Wonderstone's are known for their variegated pattern and as such are often put to polish.  When I was about 8 years old, I had a next door neighbor who would run his rock tumbler for days on end during the summer.  It was a barrel filled with a variety of stones.  He would add some type of sand and a liquid and set the thing to turning with a motor.  When he was done he had a bunch of cool looking glossy rocks. How does this line work?  "Of" is a way of saying it's part of or from something.  "Hearth" is either to do with the floor or lower portion of a fireplace or it's just a way of referring to the home of something.  Possibly it's a way of referring to where something is crafted or refined, such as how a blacksmith would forge something in a hearth.  This line may be saying "of the same process from which comes a wonderstone".  Tumbling is synonymous to polishing in this case and not altogether different than what the process of milling achieves as it grinds and refines materials into smaller bits.  The usage of the word does have slightly different applications depending on whether we're speaking of actual grinding verses polishing. I'm led to consider that this line is to be understood on it's own and doesn't go with either adjacent lines.  I think it is simply saying "Polish".

Exploring new ideas in the verse: View the three stories of Mitchell Mitchell Building (Bank) accounts/stories As you walk the beating of the world written on one side of the Kosciuszko Monument is “POLIS W MILWAUKEE” [walk the beat = “police”, pronounced exactly like POLIS], and on the other side “TO THE HERO OF BOTH HEMISPHERES” [beating of the world] At a distance in time one hour From three who lived there ? At a distance in space league = relative distance traveled in one hour, about three miles From woman, with harpsichord gossip, harp+string = repeating sound = twitter/chirp Silently playing crickets Step on nature hop on grass = grasshopper.  Cricket + Grasshopper = Locust Avenue? Cast in copper wishing well, “penny for your thoughts?”, Lincoln is on the penny Ascend the 92 steps The Grand Avenue Mall has a circular set of stairs (4x23=92) After climbing the grand 200 ? Pass the compass and reach Pass the compass 200 degrees after finding your position on the map at The Grand Avenue Mall The foot of the culvert ? Below the bridge ? Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil ? To the first young birch Pass three, staying west three birch's are along the west side of Kosciuszko Park You'll see a letter from the country Kosciuszko, like Lincoln, an educated man from a rural setting Of wonderstone's hearth polish, a rock tumbler may be used to polish wonderstone On a proud, tall fifth statue's hat, Kosciuszko is a 1-star/5-star General At its southern foot “southpaw”, meaning the cask is at it's left side? The treasure waits waiting is often performed while sitting or standing in a line.

From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing I've never felt comfortable with these words. Nobody else has either. We've had many attempts to associate something with the harpsichord, and few or none really satisfy the first portion of the line by combining it with a woman. Any bastardization of harpsichord to say Preiss was really talking about a harp or a piano is just a slippery slope. Any attempt at a woman reference is then followed by a shabby and imaginative stretch to make a harpsichord fit that is just plain dismal. I feel these two lines go together and those lines before and after are relating to different subjects, so let's hold off on "At a distance in space" and "Step on nature" and see what happens. I also want to guess at what object might generate these words. If I were looking at a painting or sculpture of a baby or the intent were to find a place or street with the name "Young", then it's conceivable that those things which come from a "mother" are things which are "from woman". At one time I attempted this association for some statue called the "immigrant mother", by Ivan Meštrović , whom by the way also crafted the Spearman and Bowman statues which are 100%, the image based clues in Chicago's P5. Unfortunately this woman has no harpsichord and that's that. I've been considering the idea that Kosciuszko wrote a piece for harpsichord, but he is no woman either...though he surely had a mother, and so he "from woman" might work. I still don't like that, despite my predispositions. As for what could be "silently playing," it just occurred to me, and the reason why I'm posting this brief note, that this could be a reference to a silent film. The thing about silent films is they would typically have music accompaniment, likely a piano. It's possible a harpsichord was used for some films, but this is quickly getting to obscure. For 1982, I'm sure silent film era memories had all but faded from memory, so if it were a silent film with a woman and harpsichord, if it were obvious then, it should be as obvious now. Honestly, and I'm not trying to sound like a film buff, the only silent film I have ever sat down to watch was The Sheik with Rudy Valentino. ...not sure where I'm going with this thought, but I guess I'm wondering if there isn't a famous silent film title which may fit the name of some place or thing in Milwaukee. Oh yes, I had another possibility in mind, relating to "from woman" as if to say "a child is birthed from woman", and that is the silent film "Birth of a Nation". Meta-thinking here on how Preiss chose some obscure quote from Sarmiento in the book Abroad in America, I felt like something like Birth of a Nation was right up his alley. Does anyone think "Birth of a Nation" applies in some strange way to something in Milwaukee? Was harpsichord even used in that film? Looking at the score, I'm not seeing any strong reference to harpsichord, so...I have to say this is looking remote. Good time for a break.

Another year has passed, and Lake Park still keeps the hidden casque in a "Secret" place! There is a lot of construction going on with the roads leading into Milwaukee. I may wait a while before trying to get downtown again. (What I'm really waiting for is a dream that shows me exactly where to dig!) AP

Ive become very comfotable with the sense that Milwaukee's solution will incorporate a juggle type theme, meaning there is a focus on multiple objects, persons, or places in a pattern that may fit a circle as depicted in image 10. I also feel that the verse works in an orderly fashion. Three times, the verse highlights things of three. Three stories, three who lived there, and three more (young birch) staying west. (There is the use of the word "young" btw, which works as "something from woman", children, young.) What if we are to discover three specific locations? Begin with Mitchell Hall, view its three stories. Walk for an hour, (the average walking speed of a person is 3 miles per hour). Arrive at the penny fountain at the Arcade of 200 Grand avenue and ascend the 92 steps, a group of four things in a circle, each 23 steps. Consider where next to go, another hour walk. Three miles away is Kosciuszco, a "male rider" (mail writer = letter?) from Poland. Consider the wonderstone, a fancy mineral rich rock, tumbled to achieve a fine polish. Rock tumbling is very much like juggling...turning the stones in a circle. Polish = Poland. Hmm. I like it.

As you walk... ...the beating of the world a) teams playing against each other in some world championship sport? As you walk some baseball field... b) the conquest of the world, such as Imperialism through military force? As you walk, "swinging you're arms" make note of something related to a world conflict... c) like the rains beating down on the lands in a Great Flood, e.g. Noah's Ark? As you walk an arc path... d) a kitchen mixer, it whirls (whirled = world) and beats with it's attachments, specifically the infamous Kenwood? Manufactured in Woking, England, simply walk down Kenwood Ave. e) a heart, beating, at the center of the globe, a sphere? As you walk with reference to a central point, a locus, get ready to put that drafting compass to work on a map. All points along the arc are equidistant to some locus. f) a chunk of earth, a mineral, beaten repeatedly by collision with other chunks of mineral in a tumbling rock polisher? The rocks are turned in a circle, like a juggler passing balls in a circle... Who likes any of these? Any others to add?

How about world-beating? Champion ?

Champion, I like it. Makes me think of a boxer. From three who lived there, is very puzzing. Three great historic people in Milwaukee? 3 people from Germany?...leople from three different countries livingnin the same building? A Multicultural site?

Unless you are just having fun with ideas...isn't it like re-inventing the wheel to offer more possible meanings for "the beating of the world" other than Kenwood Blvd.? AP

I was typing Kenwood Blvd into Google Maps and it pre-empted with Mitchell Hall! hxxp://goo.gl/maps/kHNhP

Sorry this is so long, but i just discovered this quest and I feel like a kid with a new toy. View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world At a distance in time From three who lived there Read this using the word 'From' to tell you where to start, as in 'From here, go there'. If you do that, the phrase can read like this chronologically: "From three who lived there, at a distance in time as you walk the beating of the world, view the 3 stories of Mitchell. I do not believe this is going in reverse order, it's just reading the phrasing in a different manner than you would normally by starting at the top and reading down. I believe the start is 900 W. Wisconsin Ave, the current address where the Alexander Mitchell Estate hxxp://content.mpl.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/HstoricPho/id/626 would be if it still existed. This, according to wikipedia hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mitchell , is where Billy Mitchell (the General), his father John, and grandfather Alexander all lived (the three who lived there). The Mitchell name is all over Milwaukee, so starting where three generations of this family lived seems poetic in a way. So, start at 900 W. Wisconsin Ave. Then, as you 'walk the beating of the world'... "walk the beating of the world" Milwaukee has had 2 championships: the 1957 World Series win vs. NY Yankees, and the 1971 Milwaukee Bucks NBA championships vs Baltimore. Both had victory parades! The 1957 parade took place along Wisconsin Avenue hxxp://www.milwaukeehistory.net/museum/exhibits/online-exhibit/unlocking-the-vault/1957-braves-indian-text/ . I cant find anything about the Bucks 1971 parade route, but since we're on Wisconsin already, I'll run with it. OK back to the beginning. Starting from three who lived there [900 W. Wisconsin] and walking West, eventually you'll view the three stories of Mitchell [Building] as you walk the beating of the world [parade route]. (I tried to confirm using Google Maps/Street view that you can see the Mitchell building from W. Wisconsin Ave, but I can't be 100% sure from here.) Now, how long does it take (at a distance in time) to get from 900 W. Wisconsin to where you can see the Mitchell Bulding? Is that number significant somehow? Or is the phrasing just telling you that you have to walk a little bit (use up some time) from the start to see the building? I think the latter. If it were me, I would then start the next phase of the journey in the same way, using 'From' as the starting point. "At a distance in space from woman, with harpsichord silently playing step on nature cast in copper." Or is it like this (see #3 below) "At a distance in space - From woman, with harpsichord silently playing step on nature cast in copper." Thoughts: 1) when I read it like this, the woman doesn't have the harpsichord silently playing, you do (whoa - what does that mean?) 2) step on nature cast in copper - sounds like a plaque - something bronzed in the sidewalk perhaps. Something commemorative? I see a bronze leaf in my imagination or one of those "This tree dedicated in Memory of Billy Bob's cousin" things. I know that people think that it's the Oak Leaf Trail, but it's been said before, until it's been found, nothing is off the table, right? 3) I wonder if the 'at a distance in space' part is telling you that from where you are, there's some distance to get to the woman, the next starting point, kind of like the 'distance in time' part above told you that you have to use up time to get there 'walk a little'. Someone mentioned in this tread some time ago the Immigrant Mother Statue in Cathedral Square Park hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_Mother_%28sculpture%29 . It's not that far from Wisconsin Ave, and this 'distance in space' thing could be the fudge factor in how you get there. 4,5,6) my brain hurts

I've been thinking on a clarification for the "hearth" or home of wonderstone. Originally, it's home would be some mineral rich spot in the earth's soil, possibly some specific place where it was mined, or just a general kind of "miner" reference. I would suggest from the following picture that the polished version of the rock may be have it's origin in a rock tumbler, which is why I think the line is being used to point at something relating to the Polish.

Still trying to find a "proud tall" link to something useful... If only there were a link between birch and cedar trees... Here is a literary quote from Edmund Spenser The Faerie Queen, bk.1, canto1, stanzas 8^9. which includes the words "birch" and "proud and tall" (referring to a cedar). "The sailing pine, the cedar proud and tall , The vine-prop elm, the poplar never dry, The builder oak, sole king of forests all, The aspen good for staves, the cypress funeral. The laurel, meed of mighty conquerors And poets sage, the fir that weepeth still, The willow worn of forlorn paramours, The ewe obedient to the benders will, The birch for shafts, the sallow for the mill, The myrrh sweet bleeding in the bitter wound, The warlike beech, the ash for nothing ill, The fruitful olive, and the platan round, The carver holme, the maple seldom inward sound."

well hopefully this post will actually go out as my others have seemed to disappear in moderation limbo... I went to Milwaukee this weekend and scouted around a bit and think I might have some new information on the interpretation of this verse. View the three stories of Mitchell There have been some new theories in regards to what this relates to. One of the most promising I have seen has to do with the Wisconsin Club, it is the old 3 story mansion which used to be the residence of Alexander Mitchell before it was turned into the social club that it is today. As you walk the beating of the world Just south of the Wisconsin Club is the Court of Honor ( https://www.google.com/maps/search/goog ... iMC9iA!2e0 ) In this median area lie a number of statues. Including a statue in remembrance of the veterans of the Spanish American war as well as a statue of George Washington. Both signify victories by America against "the world" (Spain, England). So the beating of the world fits. Also along this Court of Honor is a statue dedicated to the union troops of the civil war. ( https://www.google.com/maps/@43.038629, ... 39OeLw!2e0 ) it depicts 4 Union soldiers, one dying, from the union, hence At a distance in time From three who lived there a distance in time (since the war was in the past), from three who lived there (lived as in survived, not resided). At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing You pass along the Milwaukee Public Library as well as the Milwaukee Public Museum, I'm assuming this is more of a time sensitive clue about an exhibit or display from the early 80s. I am still researching this one. Step on nature Cast in copper This one is the stretch, mainly because the area that this refers to no longer exists and has been changed quite a bit. My theory for this is that it means the Plankinton Arcade. Step on nature could mean a design pattern which originally existed in the arcade but was changed with the renovations over the years. Particularly in the early 80s as the arcade was converted into the Grand Ave Mall. This is also where the theory takes a a little liberty on the play on words. Cast in copper may not mean actually created in copper but instead it may mean throw in copper, as in a wishing well or fountain/water feature, which used to grace the plankinton arcade before it was removed due to people stealing the change and bathing in it. Ascend the 92 steps After climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass All of this is reference to the plankinton arcade as well. The rotunda which houses a statue of plankinton has 4 staircases, each with 23 steps or 92 steps. After climbing the grand 200 could be in reference to the fact that the arcade sits on the 200 block of Wisconsin Ave which, back in the day, was called Grand Ave. So ascending the 92 steps after climbing the grand 200 could mean the rotunda steps after getting to the arcade. The base of the statue in the rotunda is surrounded by a compass rose. you can see all of that in this picture: hxxp://www.milwaukeecomedy.com/site/wp- ... ington.jpg As I am still trying to make sense of this first part and have found evidence that can support nearly everything up to this point, I have yet to clarify where to go next as I want to make sure I am going in the right direction before making too many other leaps and finding myself in completely the wrong area. I have also found that the task may become more difficult as I proceed due to the sheer number of changes to the landscape due to the construction of the Milwaukee Riverwalk.

Wow! I really like your interpretation of the first four lines. Very simplistically thought out, and very plausible!!

otteriffic wrote:: Step on nature Cast in copper This one is the stretch, mainly because the area that this refers to no longer exists and has been changed quite a bit. My theory for this is that it means the Plankinton Arcade. Step on nature could mean a design pattern which originally existed in the arcade but was changed with the renovations over the years. Particularly in the early 80s as the arcade was converted into the Grand Ave Mall. This is also where the theory takes a a little liberty on the play on words. Cast in copper may not mean actually created in copper but instead it may mean throw in copper, as in a wishing well or fountain/water feature, which used to grace the plankinton arcade before it was removed due to people stealing the change and bathing in it. Ascend the 92 steps After climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass All of this is reference to the plankinton arcade as well. The rotunda which houses a statue of plankinton has 4 staircases, each with 23 steps or 92 steps. After climbing the grand 200 could be in reference to the fact that the arcade sits on the 200 block of Wisconsin Ave which, back in the day, was called Grand Ave. So ascending the 92 steps after climbing the grand 200 could mean the rotunda steps after getting to the arcade. The base of the statue in the rotunda is surrounded by a compass rose. you can see all of that in this picture: hxxp://www.milwaukeecomedy.com/site/wp- ... ington.jpg Very nice connections, here. I love the "cast in copper" as a wishing fountain. I can't believe that no one thought of that before. The photo you posted seems to show that this is indoors. Is that correct? Not sure BP would have us go indoors for clues. Does that "compass rose" have any letters or numbers on it? If not, it may just be a decorative circle which looks like a compass rose.

Egbert wrote:: Very nice connections, here. I love the "cast in copper" as a wishing fountain. I can't believe that no one thought of that before. The photo you posted seems to show that this is indoors. Is that correct? Not sure BP would have us go indoors for clues. Does that "compass rose" have any letters or numbers on it? If not, it may just be a decorative circle which looks like a compass rose. Erexere actually posted exactly this more than a year ago, both the well at the arcade and theh 92 steps with the compass rose.

Yeah exere posting in addition to the starting point that was posted by atomicleprechaun made me go in that direction... there are no other markings except for the design which makes me believe there may be a compass elsewhere in the vicinity. There used to be a fairly sizable fountain in the mall but it was removed in the late 80s early 90s due to people bathing in it and stealing the money. I also wasn't sure if he would send us inside for the hunt but the "shops at grand avenue" didn't open to the public until 1983 and it used to be the plankinton arcade which may or may not have been mostly open, I am not sure and can't really tell from the photography I have found. It was one of the iconic locations of the era though which is why i continued with that thought process. I think the first part fits really nicely and I spent a great deal of time my first run out there just looking at the first lines to get somethign concrete... my next trip is definitely going to involve the arcade/shops and the surrounding area a lot more. Some of the previous posts have stated that it could lead north to the Pere Marquette Park but from the looks of it, I am not sure. I am currently not seeing anything that would lead in that direction. I will post more after my next trip, which I should be able to make in a few weeks. Also, due to the riverwalk project from the mid 90s the entire riverfront was torn up and the walk was created all along the river. This has definitely changed the landscape and I am still trying to find some kind of photography or map of what exactly was done where to maybe help put the pieces together.

you can see the images of the old fountains on the shops of grand avenue pinterest board... hxxp://www.pinterest.com/shopsofgrandave/memory-lane/

Good work otteriffic. Its exactly that challenge of verifying something was existing back then. That pintrest article called it a "renewal". Its a beautiful and historic looking fountain and stairs. Its bard to imagine it wasnt accessible to the public. It wasnt someones private mansion was it? Im curious about its history in the 60's or 70's. before those 92 steps were found, it was the Grand Stair in Lake Park that held everyone's interest. The prevailing assumptions are many...we expect clues to be tightly constrained to a small area like Grant Park in Chicago or the Cultural Gardens on Cleveland. Stairs in Lake Park just led everyone to comb only that part of the city for clues, leaving the rest of the city relatively fresh for the picking. Its like we've only just begun... I still wonder which Mitchell spot is our concern. Mitchell Hall, Mitchell Domes, Wisconsin Club, Mitchell Bank all seem equally interesting. The one thing that fascinates me most is the idea of using a draft compass tool on a map and drawing circles based on the distance a person walks in a given amount of time, which might be a "league" (roughly 3 miles in 1 hour). The question of where to place the point of origin and then what points of interest along a 360 degree arc might work, and the then how many times that method is employeed are all considerations....I think this is why we see a juggler in the image. We must juggle some quantity of "balls" or "circles" to get this tricky puzzle to play out correctly.

otteriffic, do you know when this staircase was changed to a rampway hxxp://content.mpl.org/cdm/singleitem/c ... 948/rec/26 now gmap https://www.google.com/maps/@43.051053, ... LRdNYw!2e0

Hi, New here, to posting actually, I have been reading the forums for a while and I am in the process of recovering the Milwaukee Cask. There are some great theories on here, great job to all of you...through everything I have read you all have been very diligent at deciphering the picture...however there are some things I think you may have overlooked. I noticed today, in the area I will be surveying with GPR (my suspected location) that some prodding holes were made, I noticed a few areas actually where even some loose dirt has been turned up...could be incidental or from animals....OR one of you has been poking around in the location where I believe it is located....right on! I intend to recover this cask, as well as any remaining casks to preserve as a museum display, in addition I will be documenting the finds on video and have a film crew standing by for the big reveal. I hear there is another person trying to do the same thing in documenting the hunt, I have hopes he will wish to team up, but if not I intend to continue on my venture. If anyone is interested in helping or joining the project, please contact me at decibalnyc at yahoo, or on here. Good Luck

Here are my thoughts on this, it will be a few weeks before I can verify this and I will upload some pictures when I can get them off my phone. Assuming everything is correct from Stercox, Forest, and Pine etc...the first excavation, which is how I interpreted it as well. Following the ravine it puts you in the grassy area by the suspected "young birch," also onto LMD. I like the area and the tree that all of you went for, the G and everything seems to makes sense...Egg and the 2004 crew seemed to feel it was correct as well, you tested the theory and it wasn't there. Then Rebus strikes out, still pretty clever. I honestly feel that area Stercox and them found may be close, but still thinking outside the box...it's 3 miles from that location to where (if you stay on the west side of LMD) you first see the statue of Juneau who was a Leo - Lion - Pride - Proud also the 5th sign of the zodiac...so this is where I focused my investigation. I noticed in the cape turned 90 degrees to the left, the very straight line in the center looks to me like a street lamp as it curves back around at the top, which if you stand at Juneau's left (or southern) foot you see several of these old streetlamps which are different than any others in that area. One in particular that faces at roughly the same angle as the picture. There are a number of places BP could have hidden something here without too much hassle especially if he had someone watching him, southern foot may be as Slappy says, literal. I still have a hard time with pass 3 meaning pass 3 miles, but it would play into the Juneau statue...the bronze on the side of the statue and the hand gesture and position of the illustrations head are dead on, and with the streetlamps in that area, it was too much coincidence to avoid. Also I thought, its kind of a distance to walk, and then I think...so is it from UWM to the lake park spot....I am trying to find out about any trees that existed in the park that may have been removed since the 80's. Perhaps 1 or 2 large trees existed in the park that would put the lamp in between them from that perspective, good for cover and would fit the angle very close to the lamp I have been looking at. I am working on getting a GPR study of the area, but if any of you would like to walk to that area and check it out, or may have already, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I have a solid week or two of work ahead of me, and I trust no one here is going to run down there and dig it up (if it's there) before I can verify my theory so feel free to check it out, and as soon as I can transfer my photo's I will post them up. Again, any thoughts are welcome.

Correction, I miscalculated the distance, if you walk, it's only about a mile and a quarter...which still leaves me on the pass 3, but again...I am going on the assumption that the first dig was incorrect, which I am still not settled on. The picture matches too much with the positioning of the Juneau's head and hand for me to rule it out as a location. Also the streetlamp feels right. hxxp://onmilwaukee.com/images/articles/ ... 1247591294

Also, maybe this has been pointed out before but these lamps you see all over lake park are Harp Lamps, they are an instrument, but not of sound, of light...so silently playing, he could have went at night or inferred that we should go at night...here again the comma is important...from woman (Marietta St.)... With harpsichord silently playing (what piano plays silently, could he be referring to the Harp lamps in lake park being lit, meaning enter at night?) Step on Nature (enter the park) etc... hxxp://www.tapconet.com/images/TBR/divi ... ptions.jpg

decibalnyc wrote:: Also, maybe this has been pointed out before but these lamps you see all over lake park are Harp Lamps, they are an instrument, but not of sound, of light...so silently playing, he could have went at night or inferred that we should go at night...here again the comma is important...from woman (Marietta St.)... With harpsichord silently playing (what piano plays silently, could he be referring to the Harp lamps in lake park being lit, meaning enter at night?) Step on Nature (enter the park) etc... hxxp://www.tapconet.com/images/TBR/divi ... ptions.jpg I like you're creativity. My thoughts often linger on those lines, "From woman, with harpsichord" and then "silently playing" may or may not be combined, I'm more comfortable leaving the option open for now. I keep thinking whatever this is it has to be A) from woman, and B) something which can be with a harpsichord. It seems like a riddle. Something which would come with a harpsichord might be the bench for the person to sit and play. ...I dunno...it's tough line.

That is where my thoughts took me. In my opinion it is a riddle as any instrument that is silently playing wouldn't be an instrument at all, so look for something else...I'll have to take another walk and see if the harp lamps are all along the path...Woman I guess would me Marietta St. the last street before you enter the park...from woman (Marietta) with the lamps lit, enter the park and stay on LMD. All we know about Marietta St. is it was named by Shepard after a woman...I don't know if BP would have known this history, but Marietta is surely the Woman in "from woman" and again this was brought up a long time ago, but the comma is important...separates the from woman and the Harpsichord line.

Also if this line is true, about entering at night, it might not hurt to consider Slappy's theory of the Lion's at the footbridge...if you go in there at night there is less chance of anyone disturbing you while digging around the bridge, or even right on LMD...or even in Juneau park...that area is dead after dark if there is nothing going on at the festival grounds. If BP were trying to hint at a nighttime search with that line then there are other things at play visually in the illustration as well. Notice the cape background is extremely dark with the light spots (as we think) being the trees and objects...again just a thought, but it seems to tie in and offer more options for a search of the area.

It is Marietta Avenue . here is a harp lamp at the entrance to the park: hxxp://goo.gl/maps/FelY3

wk wrote:: It is Marietta Avenue . here is a harp lamp at the entrance to the park: I would guess, but can verify tomorrow that those lamps trace LMD and are all throughout Lake Park, but again.. have they been there since 1982?

Siskel recently posted that BP would just take a shovel and trek out at odd hours without concern for authority, so that got me thinking that maybe he put it somewhere that you need to search at night, so lets just consider that line that people have been stuck on for such a long time to be an indicator of possibly when to go...this is what opened my thoughts up to some more obvious areas that you wouldn't necessarily need to worry about running into anyone at while digging a hole. A lot to consider now...the park "closes" after dark, but was that a concern? What time of year did he bury it...certainly in late spring or summer when the ground is soft and the days started getting longer. There are a lot more people out at lake park in the summer when it's warm and the days are long....it's a city hotspot even on weekdays because of the proximity to the lake and the east side. Streetlamps light up about 8 or 9, the place starts to empty out.

A harpsichord might involve a "key" in different senses: 1) an actual key used for a keyhole on the lid that shuts and locks, or 2) the physical keys that actuate the mechanism for a hammer hitting a string to make sound. An old type of string prior to modern metal or vinyl was made from catgut or cattle intestine. Cattle are a primary producer of milk. MILK is also something from woman. Maybe this line of verse is just "Milk" and "Key".

That's great thinking outside the box, but I keep coming back to the things that BP said to Siskel and Egg about it not being too intense, he buried all of them over the course of a week, but we don't know what research he put into it, and on what side of the burial. Did he... A - Scout a general location for all sites B- Bury the casques C- Snap Pictures D- Write the riddles E - Book Or did he A - Scout a general location for all sites B - Write the riddles C - Bury the casques D - Snap Pictures E - Book If he did the latter, then we would be following in his footsteps...however if he did the former, we would be playing into his game by following it essentially in reverse. I would suspect this is the way he intended it to be...he rents a car or takes a short flight to Milwaukee after Grant Park, finds a spot at night to bury it, by a landmark or somewhere he can mark it on a map...snap some dark pictures of City Hall and the shoreline, maybe some statues? I would guess he flew into Milwaukee from Chicago as I've done many times which takes you out over lake Michigan, and takes a wide turn about 4 miles out, and another wide turn at the summerfest grounds giving a nice picture of the Hoan Bridge (featured in the picture in the hair as the arch with the 2 lanes of highway below,) and right next to it are the 3 strands pointing out in a sea of blue (the Jones Island Piers) He must have took the time to reverse engineer the verses from the chosen location and I don't know how deep he would have researched it...certainly he did SOME research to know the names of the streets and how they correspond to 3 who lived there.., or the 3 who lived there could just be the 3 Mitchells whom I think each floor is named after in Mitchell hall....BP he's a tricky one....The lamps in lake park LOOK like a harp, or did he research the harp lamp? Wonderstones Hearth...is this simply the stone, or is it the base of a statue? Pass 3 staying west...is it a distance? Trees? Number of bridges? Number of monuments? Number of intersections with lights? The Beating of the World, how do you come up with that if you are not trying to get too deep? So the whole thing could go either way, but I feel that looking at it from the reverse point of view might open up a new avenue. Also letter from the country...is it G as was carved into the tree? Is it D for Deutschland or is it the S theory mentioned earlier in the forum? Again I tend to lean to the more simple clues like the golf tee's, and the hand head position on the picture and the statue. Also from city hall directly east on Kilbourn puts you right at the Statue. His hotel if he stayed the night was probably downtown at the time...the Astor, or the Pfister. I'm just trying to put myself in BP's shoes....Sometimes the deeper you travel down the rabbit hole the more lost you get, and then sometimes eureka.

BP was a Jedi Master...thats all we need to know.

Another thing I should mention about the beating of the world...Milwaukee had a lot more foundries back in the early 80's, perhaps there was a foundry nearby Kenwood Ave...or one that had a hammer that could be felt or heard for a mile or so near the area. There was a foundry near my school...about 7 or 8 blocks away that would shake the concrete when it was working. Not exactly a hot clue, but I'm trying to remember things from the early 80's

What do you know about boxing rings? Im interested in learning more about the Ace Boxing Club and its locations. Im thinking "as you walk the ring" where a world champion boxer once fought.

Unknown: American Indians had a strong influence on the Old South Side, particularly after mid-century. Three generations of Ojibwe Porters served local youth without salaries for the Ace Boxing Club since 1960. Teddy "Cyclone" Porter (pictured here about 1920) was considered the club's visionary founder. Raised on the White Earth Reservation in Minnesota, Teddy Porter was a famed boxer during the 1920's and 1930's. (Courtesy of Diane Porter.) I found this in a book on Milwaukee's Old South Side, I feel like there's something worth exploring in this, but it's terribly difficult digging into this history.

Once again....if it's too much of a reach, you may reconsider. Solutions, or possible solutions appear to be so evident once you lock into them.

Going to walk the riddle again today and try to verify some suspected information...no plans to dig or prod, just observations...I've been down the path a hundred times by now...it's a bit wet today so we'll see how the ravine goes...Also as I do once a week, going to my other suspected place and looking for more visual confirmations. I have concluded that the "Beating of the world" line must simply mean to walk down Kenwood ...weather it is a obscure reference from an old synagogue on Kenwood, a Kitchen Mixer, or a Car Stereo...I have to guess that BP meant take Kenwood to the park. I don't think it has anything to do with the old Mitchell Mansion or the statues near Marquette...BP would have been attracted to an area of the city that had Monuments, Parks, and Wooded areas. I don't see him trekking through the Plankington Arcade and sitting down with a map and compass to plan an elaborate equation to end up in Kozy Park. It's possible but the extent of math he has used was more cerebral rather than technical.... 10 by 13, benches in the form of a calender...all things you can figure out without knowing what a Locus is or having a compass. I have an honest question... Does anyone think this casque still remains unfound? There was 1 super effort to retrieve this casque and it wasn't found...through the accolades of prominent members of this community it seemed like it was resolved - that the riddle had been solved. Because Stercox, Forest, Pine, AP, and others didn't locate the casque...are we resolved that it's either... 1 Not there 2 Too hidden to locate by clues anymore 3 Had been missed in the first dig somehow 4 was maybe taken by a city worked who didn't know what it was 5 Buried under a retaining wall in concrete 6 is in another location I've been seeing theories lately on other places it may be, but not from AP, Fox, Stercox, forest, pine, or even digger, slappy etc... seems like there is a stall...what is the party line on this....was it solved several years ago and just not found? Or was it just too big of a let down that no one wants to touch it now?

7) this location is nothing like the way you think about Cleveland or Chicago. I belie e it remains to be found but I think it will be difficult to assess the final spot given there has been physical change to its surroundings. Edit: also, Im really getting a strong Simon and Garfunkle vibe...7th avenue whores...a juggler by her trade...ya gotta lok for a park on 7th street.

I've seen the first dig site...before the trees were cut. There are several big visual clues in that area, and I still think it could be sitting right where the first dig took place. My other theory also has many visual clues from the illustration. Here is my theory about the first dig. Many people concentrated their thoughts on how much the trees have grown over the years...one thing I don't think they took into consideration, as they only went to a depth of 2 ft or so (I believe) is the topsoil accumulation. The problem is that the site that was excavated is at the bottom of a large embankment separating the lake from the city above. There is an erosion problem with the lake, but the problem with the excavation is just the opposite...there would be quite an addition of topsoil to that area over the last 20 years from rainwater wash coming down that embankment. I propose that they were very possibly in the right spot, but they didn't dig deep enough to clear away the foot and a half or more of topsoil accumulation that occurred since BP buried the casque. I wouldn't doubt that if it is in that spot, it's packed in hard clay by now and probably busted up by a tree root... Again I still have reservations about it being in that spot compared to the other finds which were not "in the woods" but then again, if you look at Ill. 10 there isn't much to go on except what look like a bunch of trees or nature made things in a cape. The Grand 200 seems like a more reasonable location, or an area like that with concrete and/or monuments nearby...although the first dig location has a lot of stunning visual clues, I have reservations and still lean towards my statue theory as there are 3 or 4 monuments in that little park and also stunning visual combinations with the illustration.

decibalnyc, it could very well be in the spot we dug, only deeper. The tree roots were just impossible given the tools we had and our desire to avoid killing the tree. ...which is a cottonwood, BTW, not a birch. There's no mistaking one for the other. I believe it remains to be found, since the area has remained relatively undisturbed since 1981, but I have no idea where.

decibalnyc, I too believe that the casque is still buried. Even though I found a "G" carved on a tree along the sidewalk, I still think that BP took us in a circle and ended up closer to the oval track near the Grand Staircase...because of the 4-trunk tree pictured under the cloak of the juggler. That would have put you near a more secluded wooded area in which to dig unobserved. But...The similarity of the pose of the juggler to the pose of Solomon Juneau is intriguing. AP

There should be a beer reference somewhere in this Milwaukee puzz. Edit: for the record, I think the "4-trunk tree" shape in the cloak is actually the wrinkled boot on the statue of Kosciuszko in connection with a tall tale theme about lifting yourself up by your boot straps which would explain hopping from place to place around the city. Doubledit: I also cant help thinking of distance in space and time as a nod to Time Bandits.

Saw this today.... Interesting.... hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/zprzxonkd68s3d4/dig.jpg

Hey I know that tree!

I've really been researching a lot of things tonight...here is what I am having hangups on with the Lake Park solution...not only the original dig site which I took a picture near today, but also shadowrunner's revised version. Original Dig This is assuming BP considered a culvert to be a natural made ditch...really a culvert is something that diverts water underneath land like a pipe under a road...so in essence a bridge could be the land over the drainage, but lets assume he meant what we all take him to mean in this scenario which is the ditch that runs under the 2nd lions bridge past the lighthouse....which incidentally is where I was able to notice the drain and the newly dug up hole as well as the wooden foot bridge below. From the drain by the dig site (lowest spot), 100 paces southeast puts you across LMD...examining this more and I know anyone who has been through this has been at this point many times.... Pass the compass and reach - North Point is the only thing I can attribute to this, but what about "reach" ? How do you pass the compass...because you can go around it 2? The foot of the culvert - which one, lets assume the one south of the light house Below the bridge - which one? lets assume the southern one Walk 100 paces - OK over rock and soil - why the significance of this line? why is he telling us this, it must be important...is there 2 ways to walk? To the first young birch - problem is you come this way by not the first young birch, but the largest cottonwood...even though we assumed that BP didn't know his trees...it still puts you in the wrong spot. If you were to come out on the path with the stairs by the benches then that largest tree by the ditch would be the 5th, but there is no "letter from the country" on the 5th, I don't think BP would have considered a knothole that kinda looks like a D a letter...is there any other case of this? Granted I have always thought that tree matched the cape, and the foot sorta looks like the picture...but I stood in that spot for 30 minutes today just looking at the picture and EVERYTHING I could see from that location and it just doesn't click...taking into consideration the time that has passed, I just don't see enough overwhelming evidence...I see 1 maybe 2 similarities to the picture, but the chest pattern isn't anywhere, nothing else in the picture resembles anything in that spot except the pattern on the cape foot and the tree... you can see the hoan bridge from there, but that's about it. With shadowriders theory, well you don't pass the compass, unless there is another compass we missed...but he found some birch trees! One thing I will say about the cape image...there are what looks like 4 trees in a cluster, or 3 trees with a streetlamp in the distance....these trees appear to be numbered by horizontal lines in them...2, 3, and 4....are these the "Pass Three"? Also the pattern on the neck bothers me, and it always has...that design is on the Pabst Theater yet I haven't seen it anywhere else, not on lattice work or bridges....with the city hall image, was it also necessary to invoke the Pabst (and by the way, there's your beer reference)? When I stand at Juneau Park, there is at least a solid 100% visual clue, but to get from the north point lighthouse to there is quite a haul and leaves a big gap in the verse...and right when it seems you are getting close...still hard to ignore. Other than the large cottonwood tree looking similar to the cape foot, what else is there. The cape shoulder trees are found just about everywhere along lake park...to see a 3 branch or 3 trunk tree growing at that angle, next to a pair like seen in the illustration is so common I thought I saw that layout several times today. I believe there were some more obvious markers at the dig spot for Cleveland and Chicago. The only thing I can think of is re-interpret the verse even more literal. Again, just brainstorming here...but lets start with the first word... VIEW - to look at something Three Stories....is this a building.... or a book or a collection of facts about the Mitchell family? Thinking downtown as this is where city hall and the Pabst Theater is...other than the grand avenue mall (which I agree has a compass and a staircase with 92 steps and is located at 200 Wisconsin or Grand Aveune) what else could be considered the Grand 200...I just don't see it....also what I can't believe is that the plaque on the Juneau Statue and the match to the hand and head of the P10 is a coincidence...also that he is a Leo the 5th sign of the zodiac and the statue is one of the tallest on the lakefront...but even to reverse engineer it...there has to be a bridge near that has a culvert. I have lived here for a long time and just can't see how it wouldn't mean the grand staircase, but again...back to the argument of either BP knew his trees or he didn't. I'll be glad when I can get the GPR on all of the suspected spots and start ruling them out one by one.

I think BP found the 200 Grand Avenue site of the Plankington Arcade and then discovered that he could set a compass to 200 degrees (while setting the 0/360 to true North) and drawing a line at the center of those stairs takes you within 100 paces of the NW corner of Kosciuszko Park. You can argue that this is just wrong and any other option is more favorable, or you can say it's too complicated because it requires compass manipulation and the use of a standard city map, or you can simply say it's cool to pick the address of 200 and Grand Ave, and discover you can also set a compass to 200 degrees for a directional heading. The 100 paces of rock and soil then must be the SE diagonal heading over the playfield of the Kosciuszko Montessori school. It's a raised grade playfield and according to code standards of landscape construction, of which I've reviewed only in a general fashion and have no idea how these have changed over the years, and such standards include specifications of laying rock aggregate of a certain size and layer thickness, grading (to level it out), and then follow that with a layer of soil also of certain specifications like percentage of clay, loam, and organic material which again is graded and seeded. I think a playfield works great as a literal representation of "over rock and soil".

How would the Bridge and Culvert fit in to this location?

I dont know.

decibalnyc, A couple of your questions can be answered... The verse says to "pass the compass". About 10 years ago, the North Point Lighthouse was completely renovated and remodeled. This included the grounds and parking area. Before the updating, there was a walkway around the North side of the lighthouse. If you walked on the pavement from the golf course parking lot, along the edge of the golf course, over the North Lion Bridge...you could bear right when you reached the area between the two Lion Bridges and take the walkway around the back of the lighthouse and "pass" it on its North side... until you reached N Wahl Ave. That is where you enter the North Ravine. This is the beginning or "foot" of the ravine. You can call it a culvert because it is a trough that passes under a railway or bridge. As for the significance of the use of the words "over rock and soil"... There is a trail under each Lion Bridge. The South Ravine trail steps are created using wooden timbers and dirt. The North Ravine trail steps are created using rocks and dirt. This would mean that you are taking the 100 paces under the bridge in the North Ravine. Hope this helps clarify some of the verse. AP

I can't really see 'foot' as 'top'. But...are you saying the 100 paces start from the top...?

WhiteRabbit, I can see the "foot of a hill" or the "foot of a tree" as being the outside edge or the beginning of the object. If you wanted to, you could go directly to the low part of the ravine (precariously making your way down the sloping side) as you just pass the lighthouse. Then the word "foot" could mean "the low point" of the culvert. Either way, you would still find yourself in the ravine...making your way to "below the bridge". Taking the trail is safer. As for the 100 paces... We are told to start counting them from "below the bridge". Those paces appear to take us to the end of the ravine. AP

Ah, OK. Cheers. I thought 100 paces from the bridge was said to take you across the road though...?

We can't yet be certain which compass is being passed, or which sense to utilize the word "pass". By walking, I could pass by a place that is named North Point Lighthouse, which entertains the notion that a compass is something that points north. I could simply transfer an object, like a directional compass or a draft compass from my hand to your hand, which you can then use to find a heading or draw a circle on a map.

Here are a couple of pics that I don't know if they have been posted here, but I thought they might help. I can't remember where I picked them up from. The first is a map the old girl scout trail around the lighthouse at the time (I also have one plotting all the Girl Scout signs on the trees along the path), the second is what I had always considered the 100 paces: https://www.dropbox.com/s/r8drl8p4tl910cx/2638187808_d3c74426a0.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewbdvyx2x0jq25u/100%20paces%20sign.png?dl=0

hxxp://www.kylesconverter.com/length/paces-to-feet

Unknown: Try this on Google Maps: - Click on Maps Labs at bottom of left panel - Enable Distance Measuring Tool - Save changes - Click on ruler tool icon bottom left corner of map - Units: Select "I'm feeling geeky" - Select Roman double paces on drop down box - Click on map to place first point - Click on second point and move to 50 or 100 double paces - Try other units.

Cool! Using the Google Distance measuring tool on the map... from under the Lion Bridge... 100 paces takes you approximately 249 feet! (100 paces=250 feet according to Malted's Pace-converter link) That is still on the grass at the end of the ravine... AP To access the Google Maps Distance Measuring feature, I just right-clicked on the Google map and got a drop-down menu.

In general, that doesn't sound very accurate to me. It's not going to measure height, for one thing. I'm just a bit puzzled...obviously, people have walked it...but I don't know where the cross-the-road thing came from. Where Forest and co dug, is that 100 paces from under the bridge...? And that's beside the road entrance...? What about all the other walking described in the verse...? Besides which, I thought it's not a birch, and I can't think BP could possibly have written a puzzle based on a tree he couldn't recognise...? I'm confused. Reminds me of the recent idea that he didn't know a harp from a harpsichord. I mean, for goodness sake, let's credit the man with some intelligence...

There are at least 4 ravines in the park...and who knows how many birch's have been cut down by now. Do you think BP would have relied on tree's to be the only clue to solving this. It was my understanding that he thought the quest was possibly too easy, and that they all would have been found in a few years. I pose this question....in any of the other riddles, does BP use things that normally wouldn't stand the test of time as clues? IE trees, plants, non permanent fixtures? Is there another case of him using a tree as a marker? What I am getting at is did he have the foresight to not put the casque in the way of nature? I understand nothing is forever as Houston was lost under concrete, but when he was putting these out, he must have thought about these things, I mean what is the use of all this planning if you put the things where they could get crushed by tree roots or constructed over. I don't know if we could ever follow this riddle correctly due to the changes over the last 30 years....so even if you can figure the whole thing out...which is daunting...you still may not be able to follow it all the way.

BP may not have given much thought to the long-term when forming his clues. He didn't expect the hunt to last all that long. Now here we are 32+ years later...

Forest, I have heard this also, that he never expected it to go on this long....now was that from the Zinn interview piece or where? Is that an assumption or did we read it somewhere?

Yes, it is in that article. I just love this article: hxxp://www.angelfire.com/dragon/egbert/secret.html

Well not to be discouraging, but maybe BP was so over concerned about his reputation with the publisher that he sub consciously made it way harder than he thought... We'll have to wait and see what happens this weekend...maybe there is hope!

That article says he used a 6 foot shovel! That is a long handle capable of digging quite a deep hole.

True, but the book itself says that every casque is buried no more than 3 to 3.5 feet underground.

Making progress on MKE today...many meetings and some new information. Will keep everyone posted.

Also I wanted to make a post about the birch reference.... MANY people think this casque is buried at the southern end of a large birch tree. In the Cleveland verse a birch was mentioned...maybe it had nothing to do with solving the puzzle, maybe it did...Siskel and Egg would know better than I. I have to believe these things tho... If he didn't know his trees, why use a specific breed name for a tree...it would be purposely misleading. Also if the Milwaukee casque WAS buried next to a birch tree (if the assumption is correct about going to the first birch, pass 3 more trees, and find a large 5th) then I am positive he would not have buried it next to a cottonwood tree and called it a birch. Now if he meant pass 3 more trees and find a 5th tree as birch isn't mentioned specifically for those lines, then the big cottonwood could make sense. The key to this is understanding what he meant by Pass the Compass. Also there aren't many birch trees in the area, so if he was using a birch tree as a marker, my guess would be that it was a birch tree somewhere in the forest of one of the ravines where you could walk to on one of the foot paths. Birch tree's grow at a rate of about 30 feet over 20 years, reaching a maximum height of about 60 feet. If the "proud tall 5th" was a birch tree in it's prime in 1980, it would be close to 60 ft tall by now, or it would have fallen over or been cut down. The young birch, would now be a full size tree that would be easy to spot. Also the bell shape in the hand looks just like the overhead view of the grand staircase. Don't know if anyone picked that up or not yet. Again the key's to this puzzle are figuring out what is meant by "Pass the Compass" and "Pass 3 staying west" The most simple, common sense answer is usually correct...and the light house makes more sense than anything, but I would still be checking historical photo's just in case...there could be something that is being overlooked here.

The more I watch progress get made on the puzzles the less and less I think you can really solve it based on the verses. It almost has to be an image that leads you to a correct park or area in a park, possibly with a little help from the first lines of the verse. I think trying to shoehorn in "pass the compass" is impossible because the clues rarely make sense outside of the specific location. I'm not sure that Cleveland or Chicago were solvable in this method, and considering both solves either have completely un-understood parts of the verse or misunderstood (M&B!) verses, I just don't think it's the way to solve them. As I make progress on Boston (standing on 421's shoulders) and have located what appears to be a map of the park in the painting I truly think that's the key to all of these. Look at the more recent finding of a map in Image 9 (Montreal) - and the hat in Cleveland. We're missing really "big" clues and they can be solved without all of the "small" clues as well. For example, I've heard an almost infinite # of suggestions for what "Eighteenth day, twelfth hour" means in Verse 3. All of them make perfect sense based on the proposed dig site, but don't work out. For example mine on Cambridge Common - the park is located 10 feet from "Dawes Island" - a traffic island and plaques commemorating the ride of William Dawes (the other 'midnight rider' besides Revere). His route on the ride literally takes him past Harvard Stadium ("near those who pass the collesium with metal walls") and his route is engraved with holden hoofprints in the sidewalk. That's a perfect and excellent match, that fits with Preiss' cleverness (the poem isn't about Revere or Longfellow, but it's still directly gathered)... yet I'm now almost positive the casque isn't even in Cambridge, let alone on the Common. If you told me that verse solve I'd still applaud and say it sounds great.

I sat and discussed this for 6 hours last night and yes...the verses and pictures are full of dual meanings...luckily I was able to interpret one of those BIG CLUES for Milwaukee a few days ago, and again, it makes total sense and is not reaching from what BP may have very well intended. It also gets you near the location once you've located the park correctly without having to follow every step of the verse. The problem(s) with the Milwaukee puzzle are the same with all...time has passed and things have changed, but when you go back and do the research (look at old pictures, gather info from historians etc..) and piece the thing back together using the verses and the picture, at least I was able to find one of those ah-ha! moments. Like Siskel and Egg have said...when you find the location, you will know. I have been somewhat quiet about this, taking advice from Egg about not trying to be too confident or boisterous about it until I can prove more...but I have stood in a location and could see visual clues that made me feel like I was in the right spot. Using historical photo's it felt even more correct. Even though I am 95% on my location, as recent as this morning I have come up with a 2nd option that also relates to the verse and picture but could put me at another location close to my original location. You may be right, it could be unsolvable...but I think there are enough visual clues for each site that if you did find the correct place, it would be hard to dismiss. JJP was a great illustrator, there are probably many hidden clues that no one has seen. Go back and look at old "highlights" and "Mad" magazines and do the picture puzzles, it will train your brain to look at stuff differently. Also if there was such an obvious clue that many people (including myself at first) missed in image 10, there are probably obvious clues in the others... Also was it ever concluded that M & B were Mozart and Beethoven...or did it mean Man & Beast ? Lots of dual meanings that can be correct...almost every line of the Milwaukee verse has a dual meaning.

Preiss had said that M & B mean Mozart and Beethoven, but the finders of the casque disagree (as far as I know to this day) and said they solved it with Man & Beast. I'm happy it's not that, because honestly that starts to get very very tricky and requires coming up with the same "verbal tricks" as Preiss, which I also don't think he'd do. If that statue isn't called MAN AND BEAST (and I forget if it is, or if it's just a statue of a man and of a beast) then you're required to look at it and come up with 'man and beast' when you could easily come up with something else. I don't think it's unsolvable at all, I think most of these can be solved or solved to where they were (if gone). I just think that it needs to come from the images, and the verses are so so so specific to the park. You can lose your entire life trying to find "men of hard word" in NYC, and no shortage of compasses for example. Would love to hear more about your spot in WI - Milwaukee is probably the city I know least about in this hunt and the casque I know the least about. I feel strongly about your point about "just knowing" - visiting 421s site in Boston it just felt wrong. Working off of his, I'm currently staring at a solution that slaps me in the face and has just tremendous visual matches to the big details in the picture. Not the small "dig heres" but all of the big landmarks are there. There is an almost too easy connection to Longfellow (surprise, welcome to Boston) that strikes me as really, really clever if correct. And this was achieved not through a 'verse solve' but through nailing down the park via imagery and finding a map. My post was mostly to caution against going for 'blind' "verse solves" as I like to call them - reading the verse and then trying to find the treasure based on just the verse. You can shoehorn in a solve around almost any 1-mile square area in the USA doing that.

Are people still solid on thinking "beating of the world" means Kenwood St.?

Not me.

What then? How do you like the idea of a cobblestone street?

A great article - I'm not sure if this has been posted yet: hxxp://urbanmilwaukee.com/2013/10/07/milwaukees-secret-treasure/

forest_blight wrote:: A great article - I'm not sure if this has been posted yet: hxxp://urbanmilwaukee.com/2013/10/07/milwaukees-secret-treasure/ Actually, Egbert did, in the Image 10 thread. No harm to relink it. viewtopic.php?p=127236#p127236

This would be the 2nd double meaning in the Verse As you walk Kenwood As you walk the beating of the world Pick one they both apply hxxp://kenwoodchefrestore.co.uk/Sales%2 ... 901Bx1.jpg hxxp://www.installdr.com/AdContent/Prod ... 00x400.gif

Xieish wrote:: You can lose your entire life trying to find "men of hard word" in NYC, and no shortage of compasses for example. "Of him of hard word in 3 vols" is a reference to Herman Melvile.... Moby Dick

Just for the record, I reject any homonyms -phones -grams. I don't believe Byron intended 'world' to hint at 'whirled'. The kinds of latitude or double meanings should be limited to actual word definitions and possibly idioms, even then these puzzles are major a major challenge. I dont even agree with the 2C's in Boston, but it stuck because its easier to say than Charlesgate or Somerset. We still have no solid explanation of the use of or lack of capitalization in cases like Hard word or man of oz. Kenwood just doesn't work for me. I call self-inflicted red herring on that one.

Well I have walked it, in person, many many times. I have explored other theories, but none come as close to what has been established already. Not one other theory fits the verse completely. Also when you see all the clues in the picture (or as many as I have) it all makes perfect sense. I welcome someone to try and find it in Kozy Park, or Pierre Marquette park, or even Juneau park...I would be happy for anyone who could find the casque here wherever it is. I'm not shutting you down, but I've read some of your theories...and a few parts make good sense...but when you start reaching for things that aren't there like putting it in a park with no bridge, or culvert, or putting the stairs and compass 6 miles across the city indoors from the burial site...I just have to disagree. By all means follow your instincts, and I hope it leads you to something you can dig up.

erexere wrote:: We still have no solid explanation of the use of or lack of capitalization in cases like Hard word I'd like to know why Melville, one of BP's favorite authors, isn't a good explanation for Hard word in 3 Vols? Moby Dick was written in 3 Vols and it is full of Hard words (meaning not joyful) and it was all about NYC.

A good explanation does not mean anything unless it's part of the greater treasure finding. It's great to say that it's Melville, but that's not connected to anything else. For example, my incorrect guess at Verse 3: "Near those who pass the coliseum with metal walls" with the reference (CLEARLY, right?) to the Longfellow poem. My target was Cambridge common, which sits about 10 feet north of Dawes Island Park, who is the other midnight rider. His path down JFK street led him right past where Harvard Stadium now stands, which is literally a coliseum with metal walls. That path is immortalized with a plaque that has the 18th of April on it (18th day, 12th hour) and his path is marked in the ground with golden hoofprints. I'm not saying there isn't a leap of logic there, and I also admit it's wrong (I long stalled out on CC for Cask 11) but that makes perfect sense in a vacuum, and is why you cannot solve these puzzles based on piecing together the verse from your desk. The verses lead us around from a starting location, and if you try to find one of the later/middle clues first (not based on images, but on the verse) you go off on wild goose chases. Some of the clues only make sense in context. I'm not even saying you're wrong, just that being right about a middling line in the verse gets you almost nowhere, as if you start at the beginning, that line will likely be self evident when you need it. Melville isn't a bad guess, but it needs to flow from something else, or into something else for me to pronounce it 'solved.' And the point is, even if you're right, you can spend your entire life tracking down vague Moby Dick/Melville references in NY. Or you can pick any line and my example still applies, I'm not really sure what the point of nitpicking is. "rhapsodic man" can mean a ton of stuff. M&B is in a solved puzzle and meant 2 different things to Preiss and the solvers.

Rhapsodic man would be a reference to Gershwin. All of this information is fairly easy to deduce from clues provided by Preiss himself. I understand what you are getting at, you can't rule anything out until you have a casque. There is nothing wrong with any method to solving a puzzle, but if a piece of information fits...why discount it because it doesn't fit the puzzle just yet? I have every line in the Milwaukee verse dissected to have at least 2 meanings some three....point is ruling things out prematurely will also get you nowhere. A lot of honest people put in a lot of time and real legwork on this board since 2003, there is a LOT of information here. Can we say it is all correct? It's defiantly not all correct HOWEVER much of it makes a lot of sense. If you take the time to read everything from the beginning, you'll be in a better position, based off common sense and a general consensus on solving these puzzles. I see a lot of people throwing out years of research and forming these new, more complicated solutions to a puzzle that in my opinion was close to being solved. I even abandoned some of my own theories after reading the whole forum. Even without the pictures now, you can still pick up good information that dates back 10 years. I don't consider any of the interpretations of the verse that I have come up with to be fact, all one can do is follow one's leads. When I come up with a new theory, I go down there and walk it again...sometimes I see something new, and sometimes its a wild goose chase, but every day I seem to learn something. I know what I am looking for and I know what has already been found and discussed from reading the forums. If anything following these old leads and walking it a ton of times with a fresh perspective each time has enabled me to see clues that I hadn't previously seen. It all makes sense if you just follow the clues...and read all the posts!! "All the letters are here to see" - BP

I had a new idea on the harpsichord and silently playing line. Still trying to work out the kinks. Suppose the casque location is to be found in relation to the boot of a statue. Would it be helpful to insert a hint in the verse about a FOOTMAN, a liveried servant whose duties include admitting visitors and waiting at table? I think this is an especially nice fit given the last line of verse goes "the treasure waits," being a possible hint at waiting a table or "taking orders." If the hint for a footman exists in the way I think it does then its executed in a very quirky manner: implication in the form of a clue about a chambermaid. I think "from woman," means "maiden" and "with harpsichord," as meaning "chamber" (chamber music). The next line is equally strange: "silently playing" as "vacuuming". I wonder if the back-and-forth motion of vacuuming is considered "playing", similar to the motion of some ball sports as the teams play up and down court or field. I like this conne tion most because one of the first vacuums was known as the "goblin", a totally cool built-in reference for Fair Folk, and the most popular brand name and synonymous with the act of vacuuming: hoovering, or the Hoover. The connection here is again with the FOOT, as in hooves, a slight tweak to hoover, and a bit of a backpedal for me in my attempt to be free from wordplay, homograms and such. Is it conceivable to think this puzzle implicates footman by feeding us a clue for a chambermaid? I feel like I've landed on the right end result for Milwaukee, that is the madness in the verse has coaxed me to that point. I still dont understand the culvert and bridge reference. Is that a plain reference or possibly something more tricky?

Im going to go with the Wisconsin Club as the target for viewing the 3 stories of Mitchell. I only say this because I believe its important in three ways 1) its a mansion 2) its 3 miles from where we will find strong evidence for a casque and 3) its on 9th street.

You have literally (literally) no hard evidence that either reference in NY is Melville or Gershwin yet you all repeat it like it was handed down on high from Moses. Don't give me a bunch of obscure quotes, either. Rhapsodic's main definition has nothing to do with music, yet everyone is so convinced that Preiss was the cleverest person to ever exist - so there's no way he's just referring to a really ecstatic man. No, it has to be an obscure reference. And yet, not drinking that kool aid (which is the proper, skeptical, scientific approach) needs to be chided. Yeah - I've read everything here multiple times. There's a lot of great concrete information. Please don't pat yourselves on the back too much for Googling Gershwin. Find me a real link to the puzzle and we'll talk. As far as I'm concerned absolutely nothing has ANY credence until we can link it. Otherwise it's just absolutely baseless speculation. This is exactly what i talk about, coming in an questioning that load of BS is exactly what you NEED, as a lot of ideas with no evidence have rooted in people's brains over the last 10 years. Someone from outside needs to call a spade a spade sometimes. So here it is: Gershwin and Melville are both horse poop evidence without a single shred of hard evidence connecting them to the puzzle. I'm not saying they'll both be wrong, but a lot of people repeating something doesn't make it correct..

There's nothing obscure about Rhapsody in Blue. To many people, it's the most obvious association for the word; a much simpler musical link than "M and B", say, and no harder than "man of oz". Add the fact that Gershwin is from Brooklyn and of Russian parents, and it's really not much of a stretch. Sure, it could be something else, it just probably isn't. (Personally I see it as a general link with the verse and image, either for Brooklyn or possibly even just NY.)

Everything you wrote is a huge stretch! M & B isn't a musical reference, it's their first names! You're absolutely right the two have nothing in common. Everything there is pure speculation - we don't even know it's a rusosan church and not just the griffin back of the Ferry building! Not a single shred of evidence. The verses are walking directions, there are not suddenly "NYC confirmers" in the middle.

Xieish wrote:: we don't even know it's a rusosan church Well, it's the Russian image, and it sure looks like one. But TBH I'm not entirely sure why you're discussing a puzzle you claim to have solved, but the details of which you're not willing to disclose, in the wrong thread.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Well, it's the Russian image, and it sure looks like one. But TBH I'm not entirely sure why you're discussing a puzzle you claim to have solved, but the details of which you're not willing to disclose, in the wrong thread. WR, Xieish doesn't seem to play well with others. Siskel and I both have tried to explain that the way things get solved is through deductive reasoning...not discounting theories with extreme prejudice. There are a lot of theories that don't make sense...Digger once insisted that a certain area by a bridge was checked....not many people thought this was the right spot, but we never shut him down, and we did check the spot. What happened? Well instead of Digger getting alienated for coming up with a theory that we all shut down, we took the 5 minutes to check and if you read on, Digger then came up with some interesting theories that helped progress the search. If we all want to work together on this, there has to be some unspoken rules or at least courtesies. When Erexere comes up with wild theories, we tolerate it and they get read and even commented on. I feel he is reaching on some things, but he ins't going around claiming knowledge over the rest of us, so I have no problem with his wild brainstorming...it's out there, but he's cordial about it. When you come out and say, I've figured it out and it's under concrete...but I am not going to share...you're going to loose respect and get some backlash. You don't agree with things...ok that's fine, but don't discourage theories, and for the love of Preiss...don't say things are wrong until you are holding a casque. If you don't want to share...don't claim you've solved it. I am trying to help you, if you really want help from all of the people on here who have been at this for 10 years, try not to piss them off.

I already apologized for being an a-hole. You're free to accept it or not, this is not a continuation of that attitude. I'm working on the puzzle because as I said, without my own casque it's dumb (yes, dumb, not wrong, not silly, DUMB) to say what I said and act like I did. I am not failing to play nice with others here, it's quite the other way around. I think you need to move away from the cult of personality that has risen up around some people here though. Just because Egbert and Siskel found a casque 10 years ago doesn't mean they are the experts on this hunt, or that they completely understand it. Do the Chicago finders have any grand insight to these puzzles? Maybe they're still working that 4 block section of Colorado. The proper way to prove any hypothesis is through falsification. Just because you've been here for 10 years doesn't mean you know a single shred more than I do about these puzzles. I've also been working on them for years (full disclosure: not 10). I've read every single word ever written about them on the internet (or at least what's still available), often multiple times. I know what's what. I know how much amazing work has been done over the last 10 years. I do not count Gershwin/Melville among their ranks. I'm sorry I wasn't lining up for my interview with James Renner, I guess that means I'm not a true Treasure Hunter. Go back and look at the theories I had about Cambridge Common in Boston - I had the verse so clearly and so cleverly solved - but couldn't find a connection to the image. You have fallen in love with a meaning that has absolutely no proof to it, and no, I don't care how common you think the reference is. I didn't know it, and I'm a pretty quick person who grew up in the NYC area and lived there for 20 years. This belongs more in the methodology section but you don't solve a puzzle by falling in love with your own clever solve, you solve it through constant attempts at falsification and openness to being wrong, not a staunch defense of a fairly esoteric literary reference. You are essentially arguing with the point that nothing confirmed should be treated as highly suspect. You are arguing that and demanding that I take something with no evidence as the truth. I will never do that. You find me some evidence and I will be 110% on your side, marching with signs in the street saying how I was wrong.

(Fair enough; Rhapsodic man could be anything, and we shouldn't stop looking.)

Xieish wrote:: I already apologized for being an a-hole. You're free to accept it or not, this is not a continuation of that attitude. I think you need to move away from the cult of personality that has risen up around some people here though. Just because Egbert and Siskel found a casque 10 years ago doesn't mean they are the experts on this hunt, or that they completely understand it. Just because you've been here for 10 years doesn't mean you know a single shred more than I do about these puzzles. I don't care how common you think the reference is. I didn't know it, and I'm a pretty quick person who grew up in the NYC area and lived there for 20 years. You are essentially arguing with the point that nothing confirmed should be treated as highly suspect. You are arguing that and demanding that I take something with no evidence as the truth. Are you hearing how you sound? An apology is worthless if you don't recognize your own faults and alter your behavior showing the apology is sincere. Eg & Siskel, I would say, are more expert that you or I on this, they have some actual PROOF that they were right, and understand it enough to locate a burial site. They have a casque, I don't...you better believe if they say something I am going to listen. Notice they don't post often, just when something needs to be said. The last post Egbert made on NYC was almost immediately criticized. I took the time to research it more and I found another Melville book where the line "hard words" was written...does it have anything to do with the verse...who knows, but it's a positive approach to Egbert's information to be taken however, and it's a contribution to the information, not a ad homonym attack as you displayed here. Just because you don't know something, doesn't prove that the something is wrong, it just proves that you don't understand it like others do, and instead of trying to understand it, you are doing what you criticize against...that is hypocrisy. Again, I am not arguing, I am only pointing out that positiveness, tolerance, and understanding for others works best. Think about what you are typing and ask yourself how you would feel if someone said the same to you. It's more your tone that what you are saying. Maybe people would open up to your idea's if you weren't so over critical of theirs. Also this is the last time I am going to be off topic in a post...I've said what I feel is right, you can try to adhere to it or ignore it, but I have more pressing things to handle. Best of luck.

Xieish wrote:: You have fallen in love with a meaning that has absolutely no proof to it, and no, I don't care how common you think the reference is. I didn't know it, and I'm a pretty quick person who grew up in the NYC area and lived there for 20 years. This belongs more in the methodology section but you don't solve a puzzle by falling in love with your own clever solve, you solve it through constant attempts at falsification and openness to being wrong, not a staunch defense of a fairly esoteric literary reference. Xieish wrote:: Go back and look at the theories I had about Cambridge Common in Boston - I had the verse so clearly and so cleverly solved - but couldn't find a connection to the image. I think you are talking about "Rhapsody in Blue" by Gershwin. If you are, the reference is not literary nor esoteric - it is a well-recognized piece of music. Just because you "didn't know it," doesn't mean it is not well known. By the way, "M & B" are not first names - they are last names. You clearly believe that you are much more intelligent than the rest of us. So, why are you wasting time with us idiots?

Egbert wrote:: You clearly believe that you are much more intelligent than the rest of us. So, why are you wasting time with us idiots? OBJECTION....LEADING

In hopes to get this back on track... We might consider that the North Point Lighthouse was still in operation in the early 80's Did BP want us to travel at night? The lighthouse would have been a spectacle to see in the evening from lake park. Just a thought on the Harp lamps being the Harpsichord silently playing...meaning go at night when the harp lamps are lit.

Whoever came up with the Pabst pattern matching the woman's collar pattern, thank you. Im feeling the blue ribbon (in line with a Goodness first concept) might help a case for a Milwaukee tour starting at 9th and Juneau, a more historic and proper start, followed immediately by viewing the Mitchell mansion (Wisconson Club) and continuing straight south. Nobody makes a puzzle anout Milwaukee and doesnt crack open a can o Pabst....its just not possible to do otherwise.

erexere wrote:: Nobody makes a puzzle anout Milwaukee and doesnt crack open a can o Pabst....its just not possible to do otherwise. Sorry in advance.... https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/imag ... pezOxaz6pD Alright, back on track...

Do it, see if you can find more things associated with the images. There are 3 birch trees in Pierre Marquette park near the north bridge, I don't think they are that old, but maybe they are the offspring of prior trees. It's also by the hall of records, you might check that out as well, and it's in the shadow of city hall.

Unknown: I have an honest question...Does anyone think this casque still remains unfound? I do. More to the point, I think the casque is within 200 yards of the foot of the North Lion Bridge Ravine, near what appears on Google Maps to be an old ¼ mile track oval but is being called the soccer field on this forum. I’ll explain my reasoning, but should state in advance that most of what follows has already been suggested by members who are more familiar with the area, or the hunt in general. Start at Mitchell Hall (3 stories of Mitchell) on Kenwood Boulevard (the beating of the world) and proceed east past Downer, Hackett, and finally Shepard (three who lived there). Next it’s Lake Park (step on nature) and Lincoln Memorial Drive (cast in copper) until you come to the Grand Staircase. Up we go (ascend the 92 steps). I realize that there is some ambiguity on the Kenwood clue (not to me however since in the mid to late 70s and early 80s, Kenwood made some of the best stereo receivers sold in the US-I’ll bet Preiss owned one himself) and the woman with harpsichord (although the Marietta solve certainly seems plausible), but taken in totality, the first 10 lines of the verse lead you to the top of the Grand Staircase as surely as the first 7 lines of Verse 11 lead you to the Elizabethan Gardens in Roanoke, North Carolina. Which leads me to my first take away point-You don’t need to fully explain all the clues to get to the treasure ground. There is still uncertainty about exactly what M&B stand for, but that didn’t prevent the Chicago casque from seeing the light of day. So the fact that the next clue “after climbing the grand 200” is ambiguous is of less consequence if what follows next is not. And in this case, what follows is pretty clear cut, even after 30 years. Walk past the North Point Light House (pass the compass) and you will find without too much trouble a bridge (two actually), a culvert (most likely gone now but enough historical evidence to accept that it once existed), and a path (“rock and soil” as opposed to the asphalt and concrete that you have been walking on) which if you follow SE, leads you back to LMD (about 100 paces, give or take). Again, solid confirmation that you are on the right track but just in case you need more proof, we have two solid visual clues as well: the red balls (golf tee markers) and the woman’s face (which looks eerily similar to the lions on the bridge). At this point, you have walked maybe 1.5 miles, used 16 lines of verse with significant confirmation almost every 200 yards, at most. The image was nice to have, but realistically, the verse is so specific in this case that besides confirming that you are looking for a casque in Milwaukee (Mill-Walk-Key), it almost seems unnecessary. If we are in the right place, then it stands to reason that the verse will lead us directly to the casque. And follow the same protocols (in this case, confirmation every few hundred feet that you are on the right track). Upon reaching the foot of the ravine, my assumption is that Preiss saw something similar to this: hxxp://tinyurl.com/ksm7ueh “the first young birch”. I’ll anticipate the objections and suggest two things: 1) Yes, the tree pictured is on N Wahl Avenue, and not on LMD where I am suggesting the treasure will be found (see what I did there). The point is that the Milwaukee Parks Department has been planting trees in this manner for at least 50 years, and probably a lot longer than that. It would have been an easily distinguishable landmark and solid confirmation that you were still on the right track. Especially if there were more, all in a nice neat row (pass three). 2) Yes, the tree pictured is not, in fact, a birch but probably a cottonwood. Does this matter? Do you think it mattered to Preiss? Maybe the saplings look more similar than different. Maybe “birch” is just his way of saying “tree”. Follow the line of freshly planted trees, but don’t cross LMD (staying west). Quibble about the difference between tree species when you collect your jewel. Allow for the very real possibility that they were birch saplings in 1982, but for whatever reason, there are no longer mature birches there. Most importantly, don’t lose sight of the forest for the trees. We aren’t looking for the “first young birch”, but in fact, the “proud tall fifth”. The “birches” just lead you there. So, in conclusion, I believe the casque is still where Preiss left it over 30 years ago. Three feet under the southern foot of a tall tree (with a distinguishing letter marking it), or where that tree once stood. The remoteness of the location would suggest that this one was not found or destroyed by accident, or has been lost to erosion, remodel, or renovation. A long winded first post to be sure, but still only my two cents.

I would personally feel more comfortable with birch meaning something other than a tree altogether rather than it meaning another type of tree. I like what you've got, and I'd love to see the route walked and some image matches found along the way, that's how you can confirm you're on the right path for sure.

I think it's very far-fetched to suppose that Preiss didn't mean a birch when he said a birch, just because we can't find it 30 years on. Though whether the "fifth" meant a birch is more debatable. If you were told to dig at the southern foot of a specific tall tree with no further information, how confident would you be of digging an accurately positioned 3ft deep hole in the ground...?

I agree with that. If ay any point you find yourself hand waving away the obvious for something you want to fit, it's a good idea to take a step back. Yep, birch could mean a lot of things, but if you're going to say "whatever, a cottonwood is fine" you're really just trying to believe your own theory. There were definitely trees used as markers in the Chicago solve, right? Are we positive on that? I feel like a lot of the info about the Chicago solve is a bit nebulous, probably because it was solved by local teenagers who recognized the verse clues and statues. I never got the sense that they 100% solved it from start to finish, even without the M&B controversy. My heart wants BP to not have used trees since they're easy to move/change/uproot just through weather events.

There were a LOT more birch tree's back in 1980, the park has changed considerably. I would guess that "birch" meant birch tree back then as it's been confirmed that there were "a whole lot more birch trees before 1995" according to a parks supervisor.

Xieish wrote:: My heart wants BP to not have used trees since they're easy to move/change/uproot just through weather events. ...ay, though unfortunately, he does seem to go on about them quite a lot.

Thanks for your thoughts, Erpobdelliforme. I suspect you are mostly right. And when is a birch not a birch? In Verse 4, for instance. If a birch really *is* a birch, then the only possible way to solve this will be to find historic photos of the area, probably LMD, from the 1970s and 1980s. Surely a group with our treasure-hunting acumen, collective IQ, and motivation should be able to dig up photographs of LMD from that two-decade span. It has to be possible. Imagine how fantastic it would feel to locate someone's nice vacation Polaroid of 5 birch trees in a row, facing LMD in 1978. Wouldn't that be nice? I suggest we turn our attention to finding old photos. Some suggestions: 1. Many newspapers keep a photo archive. This might include photos of the beach area during summers or celebrations, or marathons, or parades, with LMD forming the backdrop. Most photo archives contain photos never used in published articles. 2. As morbid as it sounds, automobile insurance agencies would keep photos of road accidents, so finding a record of auto accidents along LMD from that era might turn up photos of that stretch of road. The police and highway patrol also might routinely keep photos as evidence (these might be difficult to acquire). 3. Contact Milwaukee's public works and find the companies to which they contracted both the initial construction work and repair work on Lincoln Memorial Drive. Surely they took surveying photos all along the drive. 4. Park service. This might already have been done, but try contacting the folks in charge of the park, and see if they kept photos in their archives. 5. Tourist photos. We could pool our funds and publish an appeal in the local paper for vacation photos from the 1970s and 1980s taken in and around LMD and Lake Park. I want to know exactly how that stretch of road looked c. 1981, and I bet you do, too.

Unknown: I like what you've got, and I'd love to see the route walked and some image matches found along the way, Here you go, although I should point out that this was done by someone else as I am no where near Milwaukee:hxxp://kspot.org/trove/lakepark/lakepark.htm Also important to note is that while the lack of visual confirmers may bother some, it does not concern me at all for two reasons. The first is that the image matches we do have are pretty rock solid (tee markers, lions bridge face match, City Hall, Mill-Walk-Key). The second is that unlike some of the others, this verse is a literal road map from Point A (Mitchell Hall) to Point T (the proud tall fifth) with plenty of confirmation along the way. There is no doubt in my mind that if any one of us here had had this information in 1982, we would be the proud owners of a mint condition casque and would have the admiration of the rest of us. Your mileage may vary. For the record, I feel the same way about the Roanoke solve (that is, solved, just not recovered-yet). Which gives anyone who agrees with this line of reasoning four solid solutions to use to prove or disprove the methodology of the remaining eight puzzles.

Unknown: I think it's very far-fetched to suppose that Preiss didn't mean a birch when he said a birch, just because we can't find it 30 years on Unknown: If you were told to dig at the southern foot of a specific tall tree with no further information, how confident would you be of digging an accurately positioned 3ft deep hole in the ground...? I'm not saying that at all. I'm allowing for alternatives in the absence of four young tree type things ("first young birch" and then "pass three, staying west") in the area where I think the treasure lies today. I'm allowing for the possibility that a young birch might look like a young cottonwood, especially to a city boy like Preiss. I'm allowing for the possibility that the young birches that he saw didn't survive like the mature trees we have there today. But mostly, I'm allowing that whatever they were, they were just markers leading you to the "proud tall fifth". What Preiss actually meant is as relevant to me as what he meant by "after climbing the grand 200", or "beating of the world". In other words, I Is this a trick question? Because if someone finds a tree of the right age in this area with one of the girl scout medallions on it (Letter G for Germany), I would strongly suggest they are standing on top of the casque. That, for this puzzle, and IMHO, is the best we are going to get after 30 years.

Unknown: Thanks for your thoughts, Erpobdelliforme. I suspect you are mostly right. And when is a birch not a birch? In Verse 4, for instance. Thank you FB. But I really can't take credit for re-hashing what many here have already accepted as being as you say "mostly right". I get it. Until a casque is unearthed, mostly right is the best we can say. Fair enough. And while I like all the ideas for trying to see what the area actually looked like 30 years ago, I think a much simpler approach in the short term would be to focus on finding the "proud tall fifth". I have an idea on that, but wonder if I should just put it out there for everyone, or give the more dedicated members of the forum first crack to accept or reject the idea. Any guidance from you, or the others would be appreciated.

Oh, and one more thing that I should mention, as someone who has dug his fair share of holes. The frost line in Milwaukee is probably close to 48". Something this brittle is probably going to suffer significant damage from the annual freeze/thaw cycle, never mind over 30 of them unless it is buried below that. A tree might offer some protection, as the heat it gives off might protect the casque somewhat, but of course, the closer the casque is to the tree, the harder it will be to unearth, as many here have already found out. And in this scenario, we trade frost damage for root damage. Realistically, at this point, we are probably looking for pieces of ceramic and plexiglass, at best. It's possible that Preiss dug deeper holes in the northern latitudes (Boston, New York, Milwaukee, Montreal), but the picture of the Chicago casque in the ground seems to discount this theory. Never mind the fact that it is almost impossible to muck out a 4' hole with just a shovel unless it is really wide. Also seems unlikely at the base of a tree. So, it seems to me that the best hope of finding a casque in decent shape will be for the ones that were buried south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

Thanks to Stercox for the Pabst Theater pattern match to the collar. It's right by a bridge on Wells St. I wonder if West Wells St. read as "W W e l l s" is like WWII ignoring the e and s. (beating of the world) from a Germany vs the world perspective.

West Wells = W Wells = W W_II_. From a German themed perspective "beating of the world" can make sense in connection with WWII. Its not too disimilar from the method of providing a first or last inital to a name. Here its much harder, giving a hint that you're looking for a street name with "as you walk..." and then having to guessing WWII...and then seeing WWells. Hmm. Its quirky but doable.

Sorry to dispute the Kenwood theory. Its always bothered me from a random perspective, that is what would a kitchen mixer have to do with Milwaukee? Although it hasn't yet been established that all clues have to be non-associated to the general site or cultural theme. I would like to act as if it is so, and justify my skepticism according to that constraint. Another thing about Ken Wood is its being from Britain, again not a German perspective. My idea about Wells is difficult to read from the cultural standpoint; WWII has as much to do with Germany as it does with Britain and other countries involved. In the end its not an association to a kitchen appliance, it just takes us to a hangman type puzzle. I really like it. Its a little different from the Chicago street name hint "And to Congress, R is known." R___________ for Roosevelt. Here its much harder: "...beating of the world" = W W_ll_ for W Wells. A whole step harder in difficulty. This leads me to think the Wells St. bridge might be of interest...though Im unsure which direction we're taking on that road.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Realistically, at this point, we are probably looking for pieces of ceramic and plexiglass, at best. The general consensus on this is that from "Under the bridge" no matter what Ravine you take, no matter if you walk by the lighthouse or go the other way to Ravine Rd. when you walk 100 paces you are at or near Lincoln Memorial Drive...either back by the staircase, the old dig site, or just north of the old dig site. This is based on the 3 most logical ravines...the 2 lions bridge ravine's and Ravine Rd. which if you went to the right (like a good american) at the top of the stairs, you would see the bridge to ravine rd... If there was a compass or sun dial near the top of the stairs or on the lawn of the Bistro or any indicator to continue west towards Ravine Rd. instead of turning south towards the lighthouse, you'd be heading for Ravine Rd. You would be looking for a Compass, and a "Culvert" or ravine with a Bridge...if you did walk to the right, Ravine Rd. is the logical choice. If it's the other way towards the lighthouse, it's one of the Lions bridge ravine's - EITHER WAY, after 100 paces SE you end up by LMD...SO My question is, because the young birch is most probably gone by now, and we are unsure of the pass 3...could we speculate on both the most logical place to look down on LMD by the track or head of the GS ravine..and also could we speculate on where else he could have been leading us to that point. We know there is an indicator to either stay west, or pass 3 things staying west...maybe tree's, maybe something else. We have to assume that the first young birch was either at the end of 100 paces, or in a clear line of sight from there. But then what? Would he lead us into the forest without a path? Maybe but I tend to think by the stipulations in the back of the book that it would have been a footpath and if it was off the footpath, he wouldn't have us transverse too difficult of a terrain. So we have some options...North westerly, South Westerly (if there are paths) or North or South on the west side of LMD north or south. We don't know what Pass 3 means, there have been some educated guesses, but no real solution that everyone has agreed upon. If we head north from the Lion's bridge ravine's we come to the GS trail, but it's not a direct shot, if there were a birch tree to walk to from the end of the N or S ravine, you might be able to see the GS ravine...but what would lead you to it? Why the GS ravine...well this is the crux of the question.... Is the Pass 3 staying West line leading us back into the park somehow? Or are we looking for something on LMD on near the woodline? Now the awful question of would he have put it by a tree remains. If he did...it was most certainly one of the GS trees with the markers on them. Still 2 options remain...somehow the culvert is Ravine Rd. and you may be digging by the Stairs. AND If the young birch and pass 3 were leading you back up into the park....well then there are even more difficult options. EVERYTHING I HAVE STUDIED shows the path going cold at this first young birch...so we have to start using the guidelines of the hunt in the book, the image, and the process of elimination to determine where he wanted us to go from the end of one of the Ravine's along LMD. Thoughts?

My thought has always been that a young birch tree is a bad clue in the first place, and that "young birch" has to mean something else in some way, we just haven't figured it out. I offer no proof, just the feeling that a young tree is a bad marker - in a few years it certainly wouldn't be young looking anymore, young trees die or get uprooted all the time in weather events, etc. I always assumed we're looking for a depiction of a young tree, a well established birch that is named or planted for someone named "Young", idk - just always struck me as not literally a youthful birch tree plant. While Preiss expected them to be solved quickly he had to be aware that they might not, or not for a few years at least. I'm no tree surgeon, but I imagine the difference between a young birch and a birch TREE is enough to completely ruin the riddle, and it may only take what 2-5 years to get there?

I feel the reason he thought they would be solved, and I hope I am close because this theory offers more hope...but we must be objective. BP thinks up the plan, recruits people for the project, picks the spots and makes it all happen. Then he gets done with it and makes a stark realization the the places he chose all have many things in common, and that when a few are found people will see the pattern and figure them all out too easily. This is why I don't think the Milwaukee casque was placed in the woods...it may have been placed near a tree though...tree roots grow outward and rarely disrupt things 3' down...as they get older they grow outward in the topsoil as it's easier penetrated than growing down into the more dense soil. BP put it just at the bottom of this nice topsoil. My guess is he dug till he hit the hard clay and that was the depth...no more than 3 - 3.5 feet. There is no way he is going to waste time digging into permafrost or hard clay, he scouted locations, figured out if there was at least 2.5 feet of good topsoil, and made a decision. In Cleveland he could have gone deeper as it wouldn't impede his time by that much. Also if there is a pattern...both places were "in wooded area's" but not in the woods. There were many more Birch Trees in 1980. Just keep looking at a birch tree and ask yourself, why would he use this kind of tree for a marker. Maybe you are right, if we can look back to Cleveland and see what he meant by Birch there...if it was a tree or something else, it may give another clue. Because of visual evidence I've seen personally, I believe there is at least 1 actual birch tree involved in this hunt.

I have no argument and admit that part of it (as I think I've said elsewhere) is knowing that trees are so hard to identify/find 30 years later, I sort of want it to be true that he didn't use real trees. If anyone is on the right track in Boston though it doesn't appear to be a wooded or tree-ish area, so there's hope. Of course that one could also be way off base.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: The second is that unlike some of the others, this verse is a literal road map from Point A (Mitchell Hall) to Point T (the proud tall fifth) with plenty of confirmation along the way. For the record, I feel the same way about the Roanoke solve (that is, solved, just not recovered-yet). Which gives anyone who agrees with this line of reasoning four solid solutions to use to prove or disprove the methodology of the remaining eight puzzles. Great posts Erpobdelliforme. I like the thought process. As far as the "proud tall fifth", I do think it's probably a tree with the Girl Scout marker on it. Wasn't/Isn't there more than one tree with a "G" on it? Is the one down on Lincoln still there? There was a big organized dig down by a tree down there I believe...was there a "G" on that tree? I'm with you. I think there are about four locations that are as good as solved-just covered over, broken into pieces, or, (my favorite) missed when digging.

Again... PROPOSED DIG SPOTS FOR MILWAUKEE CASQUE Let's hear from Forest, Digger, Siskel, WR, WK, Stercox's, and everyone involved with the old dig and the new theories (based off of the Lake Park solution.) If you could dig somewhere on LMD where and why, and if you think he was taking us somewhere else...where and why and where would you dig?

I thought the Lake Park theory was void once people confirmed that the Grand Stair didnt make sense as a candidate for 92 steps.

There are 92 stairs on the grand staircase, you don't count the 3 steps and the landing that approaches it, just the main staircase itself. It's 92.

Can you clarify? How defined is the separation between main staircase and the landing and which three stairs are being dismissed and why? I remain skeptical because of the alternative of exactly 92 steps at the wishing well of the Plankington Arcade off 200 Grand Ave. Thise steps are in four equal parts of 23 steps around a circle. Im skepti al of that too because its not a case of one primary ascending, its more like ascend, decend, ascend again, etc.

Erexere, In light of the way things have been going on here lately, I have decided to extend an olive branch. I will be examining proposed spots in the future...right now, just compiling everyone's idea's... I won't have time to produce a rite of entry for every and any park so I have to keep the location within Lake Park for now...if we can examine several spots, and rule them out, we are making progress. I have boots on the ground here. This would be a good opportunity for all of you to take advantage of this, and if we all work together as one, maybe we can find this thing. I intend to search several locations in Lake Park, including the old dig site. I have a list of my theories, now I want to hear your best thoughts on LAKE PARK, and if we rule it out, we can move to Juneau Park and Kozy, and Pierre Marquette or whatever makes sense. Lets all work together and take a scientific approach to solving a 32 year old mystery. We can start by finding the best locations in Lake Park and near LMD and rule them out 1 by 1...at least we are making some kind of progress.

erexere wrote:: Can you clarify? How defined is the separation between main staircase and the landing and which three stairs are being dismissed and why? I am not dismissing anything at this point, nor am I confirming, I am only taking a scientific approach as it is one way of making some progress.

I think its great that you're working hard on the puzzle. I dont see any reason for an olive branch since I dont see anything to be upset about. You have to exclude somethings and most of my theory doesnt work with the mainstream anyway. So its cool. I think Im doing very well in developing my theory, and while Im doing so, I'm still interested in alternatives. I know the Lake Park theory very well, so when it was made clear that the Grand Stair had some issue with the step count, I looked at alternatives. When there are other Mitchells to consider, I'm taking some time and having fun developing any theory which resembles anything thematic or reasonable based on Cleveland and Chicago workings. I hope to get further clarification on the Grand Stair. Maybe just a reminder of a post that I mustve missed that does a really good job solidifying that idea.

Unknown: Ravine Rd. which if you went to the right (like a good american) at the top of the stairs, you would see the bridge to ravine rd... Unknown: My question is, because the young birch is most probably gone by now, and we are unsure of the pass 3...could we speculate on both the most logical place to look down on LMD by the track or head of the GS ravine Well I would like to think of myself as a good American, but going right at the top of the Grand Staircase never occurred to me for three reasons: 1) You are going back the way you came and basically traveling in a small, uninteresting circle (staircase, around Bistro, over bridge, down to LMD) Why not just turn left at the base of Ravine Road and proceed north on LMD, focusing on the clues over there instead? I suppose that you could make the same argument against going right on LMD at the end of Ravine Road, past the staircase and to the treasure ground (a more direct route). But to me, this is less likely. Those stairs just demand to be climbed. My sense is that Preiss was probably surprised to find himself back on LMD (still circular but a much more interesting walk with good landmarks), so just went with what he had once he found himself back near the Grand Staircase. 2) If you go to the right, you pretty much miss the golf course all together. The red balls suggest to me that the golf course (as opposed to the lawn bowling courts-which you also miss but not by as much) figure into the hunt somehow. 3) I think that the "compass" is the North Point Lighthouse. It's a rock solid clue with almost no ambiguity. And one of the most prominent features of Lake Park. Again, if you go right, you miss this all together. I will allow that I have no good explanation for "after climbing the grand 200" so if someone could somehow connect this line to the Lake Park Bistro or the lawn bowling courts, I might be more inclined to rework my theory. But for now, I'm still mostly convinced that the treasure ground is within a few hundred yards of the base of the NLB Ravine. We could speculate, or we could try to identify the "proud tall fifth", if in fact it is still standing. As I said before, I have an idea but before I put it out there for everyone, I would like to know that you or Animal Painter, or any one of the others who have put in time on the ground in Milwaukee has first crack to evaluate its merit. I'm not asking for anything in return. I'm just trying to use what I know, and what I've learned from the good people here to get one of these out of the ground. It's possible that with that last statement, I've insulted some of the lurkers who use the information here for their own gain, but as a former lurker, that is of little concern to me now.

Unknown: Sorry to dispute the Kenwood theory. Its always bothered me from a random perspective, that is what would a kitchen mixer have to do with Milwaukee? If you are referring to my (really our) theory (which I think is the prevailing theory so far, which only means it is the theory that is being pursued until a better one comes along), then dispute away. But please keep in mind that to convince me, you are not only going to have to come up with a better explanation for Kenwood (stereo receivers, not mixers), but every clue between "3 stories of Mitchell" and "first young birch". I'll spot you Kenwood and Marietta (up to a point) and give you "climbing the grand 200" altogether. I have no idea what that could mean and haven't seen any explanation that I like even a little bit. The only thing that I can say for certain about that clue is that if the protocols that I am following for this verse hold true, then "climbing the grand 200" refers to something that is within a few hundred yards of the Grand Staircase.

In the context of the grand stair, its shape as a C and backwards C, together ate thought to be Roman Numeral CC or 200.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Well I would like to think of myself as a good American, but going right at the top of the Grand Staircase never occurred to me for three reasons: 1) You are going back the way you came and basically traveling in a small, uninteresting circle (staircase, around Bistro, over bridge, down to LMD) Why not just turn left at the base of Ravine Road and proceed north on LMD, focusing on the clues over there instead? I suppose that you could make the same argument against going right on LMD at the end of Ravine Road, past the staircase and to the treasure ground (a more direct route). But to me, this is less likely. Those stairs just demand to be climbed. My sense is that Preiss was probably surprised to find himself back on LMD (still circular but a much more interesting walk with good landmarks), so just went with what he had once he found himself back near the Grand Staircase. 2) If you go to the right, you pretty much miss the golf course all together. The red balls suggest to me that the golf course (as opposed to the lawn bowling courts-which you also miss but not by as much) figure into the hunt somehow. 3) I think that the "compass" is the North Point Lighthouse. It's a rock solid clue with almost no ambiguity. And one of the most prominent features of Lake Park. Again, if you go right, you miss this all together. I will allow that I have no good explanation for "after climbing the grand 200" so if someone could somehow connect this line to the Lake Park Bistro or the lawn bowling courts, I might be more inclined to rework my theory. But for now, I'm still mostly convinced that the treasure ground is within a few hundred yards of the base of the NLB Ravine. We could speculate, or we could try to identify the "proud tall fifth", if in fact it is still standing. As I said before, I have an idea but before I put it out there for everyone, I would like to know that you or Animal Painter, or any one of the others who have put in time on the ground in Milwaukee has first crack to evaluate its merit. I'm not asking for anything in return. I'm just trying to use what I know, and what I've learned from the good people here to get one of these out of the ground. It's possible that with that last statement, I've insulted some of the lurkers who use the information here for their own gain, but as a former lurker, that is of little concern to me now. Ok so you are saying that the Golf Course would be the visual indicator to walk left, even though you might come up on the right side. Ok, so then you would walk left and eventually see the Lighthouse, so you would pass the compass on it's south side as that is where the footpath leads you to the beginning of the ravine trail, and if you continue to walk south, you would still pass it, but then the clues end there...so we take the south ravine. Then we come out by the first dig site where we can assume there was a birch tree. Then you propose we would walk North staying West along the Woodline, possibly passing 3 more Birch trees, all plausible...Then we come upon the Girl Scout Tree so you would propose the southern foot of the Girl Scout tree as a location? I like that. As far as walking the route...there is an easier way to get to everything on this one...so he defiantly wanted us to walk a specific route.... Let's mark it down 1. Old GS tree location. What else...

Unknown: Great posts Erpobdelliforme. I like the thought process. As far as the "proud tall fifth", I do think it's probably a tree with the Girl Scout marker on it. Wasn't/Isn't there more than one tree with a "G" on it? Is the one down on Lincoln still there? There was a big organized dig down by a tree down there I believe...was there a "G" on that tree? Thank you. I'll let those that actually dug by that tree discuss this more fully if they care to, but the thing that always bothered me about that particular tree is that from the looks of things, it's the first one you come to at the base of the South Lion Bridge Ravine. My theory holds that the "first young birch" would have been a small tree, probably freshly planted, that you would see once you came out of the woods. You would go to that tree, as it would be the only landmark in the area, and from there you would notice a line of freshly planted trees, maybe even on both sides of LMD, which would explain both the "pass three" and "staying west" clues (follow the line, but disregard the trees on the other side of the street). At the fourth tree, you would be within sight of the "proud tall fifth", which you would confirm when you saw the "letter from the country" (Girl Scout marker is what I like best, but it could have been initials carved into the bark). No need to go into the woods, and no need to know your trees. Just find the marker, figure out which way is south (hint: Lake Michigan is east of Milwaukee), and dig. I know I can't prove any of what I have written above (yet), and I'm with everyone else who think that burying something at the base of a tree (big or small) is a lousy idea in the long run. But if you are in an open field, trees might be all you have.

All we can do is start ruling them out one by one...if we find it, bonus, but at least we can narrow it down.

Agree. The name of the game with any hypothesis is trying to falsify it. There's no harm in testing it out.

Unknown: As far as walking the route...there is an easier way to get to everything on this one...so he defiantly wanted us to walk a specific route.... Unknown: What else... No doubt, since instead of climbing the Grand Staircase, he could have just kept walking south on LMD and ended up at the same place with much less trouble. But it would have been a lot less interesting and would have required him to just walk past the GS (which unless you are disabled, is an invitation and not an obstacle). My guess is that he probably wanted to bury the casque in North Point Park (at the base of one of the lion statues would have been good), but for whatever reason (too many people, too tired to go back and get the shovel and retrace his steps), decided to bury it at the base of the ravine near where he parked his car. Once again, I am speculating but part of the fun with these puzzles is to put myself in Preiss's boots and try to imagine his thought process as he engineered the puzzle. Well, there is one more thing. But you are going to need a metal detector, but not in the way you would think.

Here is something i haven't liked about the grand staircase: It's very obvious, and theoretically allows anyone to pick up the hunt in the middle, or shoot, toward the end. What's the point of the beginning part of the riddle if even a casual tourist will be able to go "Oh, it's that" and start in the middle? Just a thought, nothing concrete. Maybe it only seems obvious to me because I've heard it in so many theories, but whenever someone new comes to the hunt via BoingBoing, Reddit, SA, etc. they IMMEDIATELY go "The Grand Staircase in Lake Park" to this line.

If you are talking about electrical wires...that location is already on the list

Unknown: In the context of the grand stair, its shape as a C and backwards C, together ate thought to be Roman Numeral CC or 200 Yeah, not a fan. "Ascend the 92 steps" is precise and unambiguous. It stands on it's own with no need for further clarification. Why the redundancy? IMO, it has to refer to something between the top of the staircase and the North Point Light House since there is a decision point that needs to be made before you can get from one to the other, namely which direction to go. Ultimately though, since I can pick up the trail again after the golf course ,and we have a visual confirmer for the golf course, I'm willing to jump this clue for now. Although if someone could tie the Wolcott Statue to this line, that would be great.

If you consider the Chicago casque, the clue L sits, is a big indicator...if you spotted the bowman on the picture and knew where that was, you would immediately get "L sits" and that is in the middle as well. Again, maybe there is 1 big thing that ties each one of these to a solution...The Greek Gardens, Lincoln Sitting, and the Grand Staircase...they all get you close, I feel it's right in line with the rest of them.

I'm not sure every single Cleveland resident would go "The Greek Cultural Gardens!" when presented with "Socrates, Pindar, Apelles" as a clue. Same with Grant Park. It's definitely possible that this one is just an obvious clue - it sure hasn't gotten us a casque no matter how "obvious" it feels! I do know what you mean though, I have a pet theory about Montreal that literally is just solving the last bit of the verse, I have no idea what the rest of it means. I have an idea of what the final marker could be and then that's it. *shrug* With Google maps it does make it a bit easier to try to "jump in."

Well for right now, lets just concentrate on locations in Lake Park to rule out...there's 1. Old dig site 2. Old GS tree 3. ??

Unknown: We’ve covered proper glassware and its importance to fully enjoying beer before. What we didn’t cover is some of the more unusual vessels out there for drinking beer, vessels like the glass boot. The 2006 comedy movie Beerfest brought some attention to this odd drinking cup, but didn’t really explain its history. The exact origins of the glass boot are unknown, but there are several theories commonly proposed. The first and most popular theory suggests that the glass boot came to be about a hundred years ago. A German general promised his troops that he would drink from a shoe if they won a tough upcoming battle. To his surprise they did, but instead of sipping beer from his actual boot the general had a glass boot made just for him so he could honor his promise without the beer smelling like old socks. After that the practice caught on with soldiers throughout Germany and eventually the rest of the beer drinking world. There are several other theories that suggest that drinking beer from a leather boot was a test of courage and/or a hazing ritual for men and soldiers dating back anywhere from 500 to 50 years ago. Although we may never know for sure when the boot came to be, the where was probably Germany, where the glass is known as a “bierstiefel.” Today the boot is popular mostly among younger beer drinkers, especially those in college, who use the boot for various drinking games. Drinking very quickly from a bierstiefel with the toe of the boot pointing down creates a vacuum pocket which will eventually shoot the beer out of the glass. The challenge for these young revelers is to continue finishing the beer without letting the inevitable beer splash slow them down. Although we here at Beeriety don’t support most drinking games, we do support the celebration of ages old beer drinking tradition. Glass boots come in many different shapes and sizes and are available at some finer beer bars and restaurants. The next time you’re out be sure to ask your server if they have any beer boots for you to try. Das Boot Theory in Milwaukee I have a very strong impression that the Imperial Standard of Measure for a League, that is 3 miles or distance walked in an hours time, is the device used to get us from important point A to important point B in this puzzle. At this time, I'm hoping point B is the Kozy memorial, but is a result achieved without proper explanation of the verse or the image for that matter. I've outlined some ideas that get me there and nothing has been completely proven by any unique piece of evidence. (this is actually the case with just about anyone's theories for any of the other casques...whether they admit it or not...unless they're holding back some delicate details). I have two ideas in mind for point A: A1: visually, the exact shape of the spires of the City Hall can be matched while standing to the north at a spot in the city like E. State Street, this then might lead to or lead from A2 A2: View the three stories of Mitchell, I think it's one of four spots: Mitchell Hall, Mitchell Domes, Mitchell Street Bank, or the Wisconsin Club. The second line of verse helps compel our view of A2, and it has to be something you walk, likely a path or street or maybe a bridge or something more diverse like a theater stage. I call this the Das Boot Theory, because I'm trying to maintain a German perspective and I find the the general theme to be something related to walking, taking steps, ascending, climbing, and possibly even drinking. Take a look at this little bit of text I lifted from someone's blog on the history of drinking from a boot:

Unknown: In 1891 three Milwaukee businessmen, General F. C. Winkler, George Koeppen and Henry Gugler, held several meetings with sixty other men at the old Plankinton House Hotel to organize the founding of a new social club. The purpose of the club was to promote and provide a venue for German-American understanding and fellowship, a reflection of the large German immigration to Milwaukee at the end of the nineteenth century. The first home of the new club, called the ‘Deutscher’ or ‘German’ Club, was in the Old Opera House near the site of the present Pabst Theatre. In early 1894 a fire broke out and severely damaged the clubrooms. A new home had to be found. Several alternatives were considered including disbanding the club which was in a poor financial state. When the vacant Mitchell Mansion on Grand Avenue (now Wisconsin Avenue) was brought to the attention of club members, shortly after the death of Alexander Mitchell, all thoughts of dissolution vanished. An offer of over $100,000 was made and accepted. The Deutscher Club moved into its new quarters in early 1895 and began to settle in for a long stay. On May 1, 1895 the Club held their opening night party in the Mitchell home with over 450 attendees; this without any of the new rooms which were eventually added by the Club. Das Boot Theory continued 2/2 Verse line 1, I prefer the Mitchell connection of the Alexander Mitchell House (Wisconsin Club) at 900 Grand Ave. (now W. Wisconsin Ave). From this I presume we're either on a path fixed to one of four streets: 9th or 10th street, Wisconsin Ave. or W. Wells St. assuming you're viewing it's 3 stories from any one of the bordering streets. Verse line 2, if my WWII theory is correct, confirms that we're on W. Wells. as we view it. This doesn't yet give us any specific direction to walk, and so we might asume having walked all around the Mitchell House before connecting to our next clue. Verse line 3 and 5 stress the importance of some measure of distance dealing with the unit of time and space. I've jumped to the idea of using the Imperial Units Standards based on the word 'Imperial' being used in the reference to Germany in the Litany of the Jewels. Since we see the word 'three' being used three times in the verse, I've considered these lines about time and space have to do with the 3 miles walked in 1 hour unit of distance known as an Imperial League. This suggests to me that point of interest A and point of interest B might be one league apart or having to do with a "league" in another sense, like a team sport. One way to examine this might be to take a draft compass, set the center to the Mitchell House and draw a 3 mile radius arc on the city map and then see what might be interesting. 3 miles exactly south from the Wells St. side of the Mitchell House takes us to Modrzejewski Park. 3 miles northeast takes you to a spot in Lake Park just off of E. Belleview Place or about 1000 feet southwest of North Point Lighthouse. Verse line 4 may be a good reference to the founders of the "Deutscher" German Club that took up residence in the vacated Mitchell House, The pattern on the woman's collar in the image matches the doors to the Pabst Theater very well. This may be considered a strong connection to the Deutscher Club. Verse line 6 is simply phenomenal. I'm currently holding onto the wild idea that it has to do with chambermaids. Verse line 7 in connection with a chambermaid has me thinking of the vacuum cleaner. This is such a fresh thought, that its probably wrong, but for the moment I like the previous use of the word 'space', combined with 'silently' makes me think of the "sound doesn't travel in a vacuum" idea. Jumping to the different sense of the word and a maid servant really appeals to me.

Unknown: Here is something i haven't liked about the grand staircase: It's very obvious, and theoretically allows anyone to pick up the hunt in the middle, or shoot, toward the end. True, but only to a point. It's not enough to find the 92 steps, although that's a great start. Before one can be fully convinced that these are the correct steps, (s)he needs to be convinced that the 9 lines that precede "ascend the 92 steps" lead clearly and unambiguously to the bottom of that staircase. Since I absolutely believe this to be the case (with only minor hiccups that I am willing to discount to "poetic license on Preiss' part), I'm willing to continue my search from this point with confidence. Of course, I am assuming a clear, linear path, but in the case of Verse 8, I think that is what we are dealing with. For the record, I don't think for one minute that Preiss walked this exact route with a shovel and a backpack, looking for a place to dig a hole. He probably scouted the location and the surrounding area first, then later drove and parked on LMD. Walking the park a second time, he took pictures and notes, and finding himself back on LMD (but from a different direction), decided he had too much invested in the area to not bury the casque there. Near the soccer field was just the most convenient place (although as we are finding out, a killer in terms of long term viability of some of the clues). Pure speculation on my part, but consistent with me trying to put myself in his boots in an effort to understand the methodology a little bit more.

Here is why I don't think it is in the woods...or in an area behind the woodline. This could be totally wrong, but I am just using common sense. BP had a shovel and a box to bury (as far as we know). If you've done any digging or landscaping, you know that any wooded area is bound to have large root systems all over the place. BP didn't fly around with an axe and I doubt he bought one in every city and left it... To get in and out, and have dug a 3' hole, buried something and covered it back up...he wouldn't want to mess around with roots or anything that would cause a delay in getting it done. Not to say he didn't clear the burial sites ahead of time...maybe testing the locations to see if they were good for someone to dig a hole in without too much notice, I'm not ruling it out...but I don't think he did. Chicago was not in the woods, trees were planted after he was there and we were told the 10 by 13 was a foot measurement. Cleveland wasn't in the woods, although it was in a planter box in an area near woods. If the Houston and St. Augustine theories are correct they wouldn't be in a woods either. The reverse of this is that Milwaukee is one of the few images that has any kind of architectural representation in it...no stone pillars, buildings (city hall is just a city indicator,) hardly any designs that can clearly be matched to anything in architecture like the fence post in Chi or Siskel and Eg's wall. It has visual clues starring you right in the face...but the image on the cape...what many consider 1 of the 2 big indicators....not a wall, or fence, or anything apparently man made...no...a tree of some sort. It's been discussed that the bumps on the trees could represent the 4 tree's you need to find the "proud tall 5th." The straight one in the center has 1 small bump, the one to the left of center 2 bumps, right of center 3 bumps, and the 4th one seems to have many bumps at least 4. Are these the pass 3...ridiculous! I don't want this to be buried in the forest or near the woodline, but based on the picture, all the visuals I have come across, and the lack of any kind of visual indicator for something other than trees...I feel this one may be real close to a wood line or near a tree. I have to accept there is a more than fair chance that it could be near a tree...unfortunately. If there were any more obvious indications of visual clues other than trees I would be skeptical, but with as much tree stuff as I see in the image...SIGH...it could be near a tree.

Montreal's verse specifically calls out the forest, it's likely buried in a more wooded area. Though it also gives you a direct landmark to look for (stone closet). It also uses paces as a count off, which I just don't like at all. Not that I disagree with "paces" being literal paces taken by an adult human, but just because as was shown in CLE you can be so close and still completely miss the casque. Paces seems really arbitrary when a foot in either direction matters a ton.

To the doubters (photos courtesy stercox), once again, from the top: Bonus:

Unknown: Here is something i haven't liked about the grand staircase: It's very obvious, and theoretically allows anyone to pick up the hunt in the middle, or shoot, toward the end. Well, thanks Forest, that seems pretty conclusive...though I doubt Erexere will have any of it... I wouldn't get too hung up on the idea of the Grand Staircase being too obvious and in the middle. There need to be some intelligible clues FFS, and burying them under more obscure references seems as good a way of sowing confusion as any.

Thanks. Now I see how you have tailored the count to exclude those 3 steps that aren't used to climb to the top, and dismiss the 4 steps on the approach to the first landing. Its a great candidate, but WRabbit is right, Im not convinced. The Plankington Arcade is all together 92 steps, no more, no less, so its also a candidate. Something more that I'm examining is the possibility of using the last entry in the Abroad in America book to justify Byrons fascination with H.G. Wells. Remember the cool rotating disk on the back of the Time Machine in the film? Take a moment and look at the Plankington Arcade Wishing Well center and statue surrounded by circle of stairs. It looks quite similar to me. It is something you "cast in copper" pennies into for making a wish. My point is start at W W_ll_(900 W.Wells) and walk south 1 block to 900 Grand Ave. (Deutscher Club/Mitchell House), walk 7 blocks (seven juggled objects?) east to 200 Grand Grand Ave., toss a penny, make a wish and be transported through time and space to the casque's location. Watch out for Morlocks...

Here's the thing with the "7 juggled objects" thing - we have no way of ever knowing if that's right. So far we have 2 puzzles solved with more or less straightforward clues. There are directions and Polaroids snapped along the way to confirm that you're following the correct path. SO FAR there isn't an instance of having to use the image to interpret a clue, they just confirm you're on the right path, or offer their own clues (map of OH for example). How would one know to do that, and how could one ever know that they're right? I think that every step you take can be confirmed visually in the image, and as such I think taking 7 anything because their are 7 objects is folly.

Agreed. Folly. We are dealing with the Dwarven puzzle...depths unknown.

Xieish wrote:: Here's the thing with the "7 juggled objects" thing - we have no way of ever knowing if that's right. So far we have 2 puzzles solved with more or less straightforward clues. There are directions and Polaroids snapped along the way to confirm that you're following the correct path. SO FAR there isn't an instance of having to use the image to interpret a clue, they just confirm you're on the right path, or offer their own clues (map of OH for example). How would one know to do that, and how could one ever know that they're right? I think that every step you take can be confirmed visually in the image, and as such I think taking 7 anything because their are 7 objects is folly. Let me understand....you are saying that every line of the verse should have an image confirmation or???

Unknown: To the doubters (photos courtesy stercox), once again, from the top: Not me. Of all the slam dunks in this puzzle, and there aren't that many, this is one of the slam dunkiest. Ironically, it is immediately followed by the most obscure (at least to me) clue.

Hmm...hmmm... Why does the convention for counting stairs change after the first three counted? Looks like TWO stairs being counted as three. This would mean you have 91 steps according to the convention you adhere to with steps "4 to 92". Time for another pint of stout. Could the 7 objects juggled be a 7 dwarves connection? I'm back to thinking about Time Bandits and the 6 dwarves who joined up with the kid to go visit Napoleon and steal his goodies.

I've walked the steps many times. The original staircase is 92 steps, you don't count the additional steps that were added on after the promenade was torn down and the additional steps were added. The Grand Staircase as Olmsted designed it, has 92 steps.

Okay. Is there any proof of the Olmstead version? This whole "it was 92 steps" info is somewhat controversial.

erexere wrote:: Okay. Is there any proof of the Olmstead version? This whole "it was 92 steps" info is somewhat controversial. I am telling you 1 person to another, that I have walked them many times, and it counts out to 92 steps. You don't have to go to the original plan you just have to believe that I have walked them and can count...I know it's difficult these days for people to do anything without a cell phone or Ipad assisting them, but somehow I was able to count and walk the stairs at the same time....I know I can't believe it either so I did it like 50 more times since then...a lot of the time I see people in the middle section playing with their phone's and I'm like..."It's ok brother...just keep walking up....you don't need the phone...life does not need recalculation"

Sorry to persist on this topic, but you walked and counted them *before* some new construction took place? The photo spread cited by forest_blight courtesy of stercox seemed like it was years ago when stercox was more active in these forums. I thought you were a new member here and a recent Secret enthusiast. Can you source anything to help remove any doubt on the 92 stair count? Surely I missed a post where someone verified these facts 10 years ago. I'll dive in and have another look. I dont recall seeing clear proof of this when I joined this hunt 3 years ago as I only skimmed some threads. Edit: I want to trust the careful count by Varin back on July 22, 2004 of 95 steps (not counting the 3 but including the 4 on the bottom below the main). Is the situation basically that some construction happened after 1982 where 4 stairs were added to that lowest landing and the very first step of the main staircase was brought to level with the new ground? Thats the only way I can see this playing out.

wilhouse wrote:: have we checked to verify that's it not an address or something of that sorts (200 grand street, for instance?) wilhouse Good job, wilhouse, (in 2005). Plankington arcade's 92 stair steps at 200 Grand Ave does have some potential. The big question, "where to next?"

decibalnyc wrote:: Let me understand....you are saying that every line of the verse should have an image confirmation or??? Oh goodness no, just that there are image confirmations as you follow the verse. I do believe whenever the verse has you change course or direction that yes, there is an image. This is based on my understanding of Cleveland and Chicago as well as a lot of new stuff in Boston. I have a sense for how often you see images, now having walked a bunch in my city. It's not every 20 feet, and the Milwaukee puzzle seems less image heavy than Boston. But there are no multiple turn directions that won't have a Polaroid shot or two along the way.

erexere wrote:: Good job, wilhouse, (in 2005). Plankington arcade's 92 stair steps at 200 Grand Ave does have some potential. The big question, "where to next?" Sorry, I have not been keeping up with the Milwaukee hunt as much as the others. 2 questions, which may have been answered before: 1. Does Plankington Arcade really have an address of 200 Grand Ave? If so, that is more than just a coincidence to me. 92 steps and the Grand 200? 2. For the Grand Staircase, there are 92 steps to the top if you take 1 of the paths. What if you add up all of the stairs from both paths, including steps that go nowhere? Do you get to 200? Thanks.

Egbert, I believe Plankington Arcade is inclusive of the 200-299 block on Grand Ave. The part that becomes controversial is whether it was accessible to the Byron for the purpose of the hunt if the area wasnt open to the public until 1982. The stairs and wishing well statue are historic, and I find it hard to believe it was a private area inaccessible to the public for any period of time other than for the purpose of construction/remodeling/improvement. The address is easy verifiable, but Ive not seen absolute proof of access for Byron to have had access assuming he needed some time to setup and hVe ready for a Nov. 1982 publication. Grand Stair vs 200 Grand Ave are both ambiguous delending on what direction you want to go in.

Unknown: Does Plankington Arcade really have an address of 200 Grand Ave? If so, that is more than just a coincidence to me. 92 steps and the Grand 200? Technically, no. The historic building that houses the steps in questions is actually located at the corner of West Wisconsin Avenue and North Plankinton Avenue (100 block of W. Wisconsin), and is part of the whole Shops of Grand Avenue, which opened in 1982 (currently for sale at $4.75 Million if you are interested). It's likely that this whole area would have been inaccessible to Preiss at the time he was researching and writing The Secret . Since that last part is speculation on my part, I'll list several other reasons why I don't think this particular area fits the puzzle (well, besides my slam dunk comment earlier): 1) It's indoors. In no other puzzle has anyone even remotely suggested that you have to go inside a building at any time. And if you are looking to bury something, inside is one of the last places you want to be as the difficulty factor increases exponentially. Now, if someone can show me an arrest record from 1981 for a man with a shovel inside the Plankinton Arcade, I'll reconsider. 2) There is no definitive proof offered that this staircase (actually four separate staircases) has 92 steps. It's possible that each staircase has 23 stairs (for 92 total) but that has not been proven as far as I can see. 3) There is no simple or logical explanation offered as to how the verse leads us there, or where to go once we have climbed up the staircase and find ourselves on the second story of a building. 4) The "compass" at the base of the staircase looks more like a star pattern than a compass rose. The latter usually has alternately sized triangles to distinguish the cardinal points. The triangles on the floor are all the same size. "Ascend the 92 steps" refers to the Grand Staircase. There is no hope otherwise.

Unknown: What if you add up all of the stairs from both paths, including steps that go nowhere? Do you get to 200? Assuming the right side is symmetrical to the left (as you face the stairs from below), and assuming the 92 count is correct, then we only need to add the right side curve (50 steps) and the steps to nowhere (3) to get an accurate count of the staircase as a whole (145). It's a good idea, but we are way short. One other problem with "climbing". If we are talking about steps, that would put us almost 120' higher (at an average of 7.25" per step) than the top of the Grand Staircase (as a frame of reference, the lighthouse is only 74 feet). And yes, I looked there even though it's inside. It looks like a normal height staircase riser ( hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Poin ... stairs.jpg ). There might be a few trees in Lake Park that approach that height, but that's about it as far as I can tell. As I've said before, there is much about the "after climbing the grand 200" that doesn't make any sense. But the explanation for what precedes it, and the clues that follow, are sound. For now, I'm willing to ignore it and focus on the treasure ground. That just seems like a more efficient use of time and resources than trying to figure out this one clue.

Technically speaking: Grand Avenue has been renamed Wisconsin Avenue. The 92 steps are of a set of 4 stairs of 23 steps each in a rotunda centered in the atrium of one single large building addressed at 161 W. Wisconsin Ave. As a point of reference is possible to refer to the site a number of ways: 200 Grand, ~150/161 Grand, or possibly ~650 N. Plankington. It's a historic building, so it's entirely reasonable for Preiss to assume it would retain its historic character although it wasn't admitted into the NRHP until 2000. It was sold to developers in 1980 and became annexed to the splendid new shopping mall. Looks like they built a nice sky bridge connecting the two block buildings, but all in all retained the historic character of the building. I don't have the opinion that the pattern in the center of the rotunda looks like a compass rose. I believe the meaning of "pass the compass" refers to a physical object that you can manipulate. If the compass is seen as the North Point Lighthouse, then the verb 'pass' means to go beyond during the course of travel. If we're talking about an actual compass like a tool you can hold in your hand, then it may be the kind that points to magnetic north or the kind which draws a circle based on setting a radius and origin on a piece of paper. The object can be handed or passed to another person, or itself may be used to draw a path which as a way of showing movement from one point to another, which then uses 'pass' in the first sense and not the latter.

Here's how I envision the puzzle: Anyone with a copy of Abroad in America, could you check the last entry where it talks about H.G. Wells? Just curious if there's anything useful.

Forget about copyright for a moment,

Egbert wrote:: 2. For the Grand Staircase, there are 92 steps to the top if you take 1 of the paths. What if you add up all of the stairs from both paths, including steps that go nowhere? Do you get to 200? Thanks. If you add 92+92+3 steps that go nowhere, and the 3 added to the bottom, Ironically, you would get 200 so here we find another dual meaning...the CC shape, and the total # of stairs up and back down is 200 including the landing at the bottom and the 3 mid stairs that just take you near the flower bed in the middle.

Unknown: If you add 92+92+3 steps that go nowhere, and the 3 added to the bottom, Ironically, you would get 200 I don't want to belabor the point, because I really don't think it affects the final solve, but I can't see any scenario (other that going up and down certain stairs arbitrarily) where you get to 200 steps. -If you go up and back down, that's 184 -If you go up and back down, and include the middle 3 (even 4 times) that's 196 -If you count all the stairs once, that's 145 Two hundred makes no sense. Climb makes no sense. I could see this being another clue for getting from LMD up to Lake Park, but we have already "ascended" to that level via the documented "92 steps". The only thing that fits is "grand" and Grand Staircase, and that's just not enough of a connection to me.

The book was published in 1982, does anyone know when BP buried the casques? Is there anything on record about it or are we guessing?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I don't want to belabor the point, because I really don't think it affects the final solve, but I can't see any scenario (other that going up and down certain stairs arbitrarily) where you get to 200 steps. -If you go up and back down, that's 184 -If you go up and back down, and include the middle 3 (even 4 times) that's 196 -If you count all the stairs once, that's 145 You're right, my math was way off...it's been a long day already :-) So Egbert...no it would be 195 in total. I still believe it's just an affirmation of direction. You can't see the double C in the staircase until you are above it looking down, so he's just saying "After climbing the staircase"....because think about it...there is an uphill road only 20 feet from the grand staircase (Ravine Rd.) he says "Ascend the 92 steps" that could mean walk up the hill, if he wanted you to take the stairs, saying "After climbing the Grand 200" is just confirming you are on the right path. My interpretation at least.

Unknown: My interpretation at least. Good enough for me. You are on the ground and if there is one thing I'm learning, facts on the ground trumps Google Maps, all other things being equal.

I'm dubious about the CC. I'm looking at a photo and it seems a highly unlikely description. But I think he was talking about the Grand Staircase, although we might never be sure why.

Unknown: The book was published in 1982, does anyone know when BP buried the casques? Is there anything on record about it or are we guessing? I just always assumed that all the legwork for the book was done in 1981. I just don't think there is enough time in one calendar year to do everything necessary to have a book like this published, especially when you consider that he probably didn't put them in the ground in the north until spring, and putting them in the ground is one of the first things (after commissioning them of course) that needed to be done. So late spring to early fall of 1981 would be my best guess.

Unknown: But I think he was talking about the Grand Staircase, although we might never be sure why Like "where M&B are set in stone". There is still uncertainty about what Preiss had in mind when he wrote that line, but it didn't prevent the Chicago puzzle from being solved. I'd like to believe that the same dynamic is at work here. That is, while it would be nice to put this piece of the puzzle in place, ultimately it's not essential to the final solve.

Das Boot Theory continued 3/3 I'm rather intrigued by the way these Dwarves hid their purple amethyst. The stereotypical tinkerer, engineer, builder, tunnel digger, and drinker might apply to these Fair Folk. I've got a feeling the aim is to pay homage to Time-Travelling. Some things in this puzzle related to the "ticker" (clocks), and others relate to the "walker" (feet). When it comes to "time travel", H.G. Wells is the main man even though he is British and this is intended as a German themed puzzle. We can't ignore that he did write the ever so great novel, the War of the Worlds. I was just reading the eBook of The Time Machine, by H.G. Wells. Some things that I looked for were any "phrases" that might match the verse, or any context involving words like 'nature' or 'harpsichord'. The subject of Man vs. Nature is brought up several times during the Time Traveller's observations of how Man has endured in Nature over countless years. None of this seemed to directly connect to the Milwaukee puzzle. A couple observations I must mention, however, are his initial meeting of the people from the distant future and his description of a 4 foot tall, fragile man wearing purple. The adults were small, weak, and only as intelligent as a 4 or 5 year old child. Another thing of note was the disappearance of the Time Machine, which he discovered had been carried towards a giant statue of a white sphinx and then into some secret panel or hatch in the large pedestal. I'll like to think more about this as I work this puzzle. Start at City Hall, "clock tower". When standing on E. State street and about halfway between N. Water St. and River St. you would have the exact match of the spires on City Hall as it's portrayed in Image10. You can't see this now because the Marcus Center for the Performing Arts stands in the way. I don't know when this theater building was built, but I'm guessing it wasn't there in 1982. It's not a bad idea to consider this as a starting point based on the Iconic Picture Path concept. I think at some point we need to consider walking by the Pabst Theater based on the collar pattern. Start on N. Water and E. State (primary image clue) Take N. Water south for 2 blocks (direction change because there's another image clue) Take E. Wells west for about 9 blocks to 9th and W. Wells (apply first line of verse) At this point we might consider the German focus that the Wisconsin Club represents (the club's three founders lived there) Perhaps here we adjust our position to 9th and Grand Ave. Treat the Club as the center of a clock, north as noon and standing on the corner might be considered 1:30 and moving some distance in time might be conveyed by taking the 4:30 position at the southeast corner of the Club. Whatever is meant by "From woman, with harpsichord," and "Silently playing," I'm assuming it has something to do with the approach to the Plankington. Take Grand Ave. 7 blocks to 2nd and Grand Ave. "At a distance in space," could be the 7 blocks travel, speculating that the 7 juggled objects could be used as a clue and a block could be the measure of space or it could mean to go into the space of the Plankington Building and find the atrium. (atrium is an interesting word, a heart chamber? I recall thinking a maid or chambermaid could be "from woman," and music or chamber music could be "with harpsichord.") In the center is a wishing well occupied by a tall pedestal and statue of John Plankington. (cast in copper) "Step on nature" is difficult to ascribe. Nature could be used in the sense of the anything natural and not man made, such as the basic elements like earth, air, fire, and water. I'm thinking that 'step' could have to with the foot or 'ped' and the nature could be the water of the well with the PEDestal in it's center. In the context of a wishing well, I want to play with the idea that we're wishing ourselves to some destination. Surrounding the well is a rotunda with four sets of stairs, count 92 total steps in all. "Pass the compass and reach," at this point is open to much interpretation. Whatever it is, we reach the foot of the culvert and so must be at some road where water is channeled below it. I think this may apply to any normal city street with sewers tunnels below. "Below the bridge," can mean anything that connects two points through or over some kind of intervening obstruction. I'm sorta stuck at this point to imagine a means to take us from this point at the rotunda to the next point. Jumping ahead to my "boot" on the Kozy monument, I find several lines of verse work exactly to get you to the base of his statue. Working backwards, 1) pride, has to do with achievement, and Kozy has achieved the rank and status of Brigadier General, a 1-star officer. Full general is a 4-star officer, but there is such a thing as the elite 5-star, which has only been recognized in about 8 people in US History (3 during the Civil War era, and 5 during the WW II era). So 1 of 5 = a fifth. 2) Kozy is Polish, and wonderstone is something which is often highly "polished", so it's a perfect blend of two meanings between rubbing a stone smooth and the name of a country. 3) You pass 4 birch trees as you walk from the northwest corner entrance of the park, staying west, to the southwest corner next to the Kozy monument. 4) 100 paces from that Park entrance to the northwest (remember I'm working backwards, so it's 100 paces southeast over rock and soil in the verse) is the diagonal fence line of raised sports field. This may be seen as a bridge in the sense that you climb up onto it, walk across, and then climb down back to the street level. (The status of the fence being there in 1982 is unknown at this time) So I'm not really sure how to regard the lines "The foot of the culvert / Below the bridge", but maybe that's the one thing that will have to go unexplained. I'm just left with trying to figure out how to recognize the precise spot to dig at the "southern foot" of Kozy. My best guess is it has everything to do with one of his boots, because the word 'waits' ends the verse, and if the idea of 'chambermaid' is involved in that previous line about the harpsichord, then it's possible that and other clues about feet and walking might be a hint about the FOOTMAN type of waiter/servant. I believe Kosciuszko is our FOOT. All we need now are some brave turtles armed with shovels...

I should've revised my concept on the "time travel" leap from point A to point B. Point A is the Plankington rotunda near 200 Grand and the usage of that address reference is Byron's super clever compass hint to set 0 at North and take a 200 degree bearing from there to some point that gets you "100 paces southeast" from your next breadcrumb, the first young birch. Im still open to going northeast towards lake park, but that will require more mental gymnastics.

A few posts back I cut an pasted a the flag from image 6 onto the comparison of image 10 with art for the film Time Bandits. That was just some fun and not meant to present any sureness on my part that they are related. I thought they looked similar and if they suggest anything, it might suggest the artist couldve borrowed material but not for any particular meaning beyond that. Hope that's clear and not confusing. I sure like the idea of time travelling treasure hunting dwarfs as an influence on Milwaukee, but nothing to get too excited about. Hope people enjoyed the comparisons.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I just always assumed that all the legwork for the book was done in 1981. I just don't think there is enough time in one calendar year to do everything necessary to have a book like this published, especially when you consider that he probably didn't put them in the ground in the north until spring, and putting them in the ground is one of the first things (after commissioning them of course) that needed to be done. So late spring to early fall of 1981 would be my best guess. Well based on the article written about the Chicago guys, BP buried the casques (or the Chicago casque) in the "winter of 1981-82." I was always curious as to the months too...there are some monuments that were installed in parks, etc, that were in 1981 (for example one referencing V6) that it would help to know exactly when he was there. (see if this shows up...)

Well the Girl Scout Markers were placed in 1981. I guess he would have buried it after they were put up, and at this point I have to begrudgingly admit there is a 50% chance that he did put it next to a tree :-( There is just nothing else there that fits the description of a proud tall 5th. The large cottonwood at the first dig site, used to have one of these markers on it...as did any tree that signified a turn along the path. They were taken down in 1989, except the ones that grew into the trees. These markers appear to be the key to the whole thing as there is nothing else that would represent a letter on a tree. Also there is nothing else along the current path that would have a letter on it at all...there are trees, trees, and more trees. Because we have history on our side, knowing where the 4 trunked tree was, and knowing where the GS markers were, it's going to be a guessing game at this point. If the letter from the country would be an "O" well then it would be easier.

decibalnyc wrote:: There is just nothing else there that fits the description of a proud tall 5th. I'm ready to drink a fifth of whiskey while dressed like James Monroe wearing a giant letter E on my head, if it would help.

Unknown: Well the Girl Scout Markers were placed in 1981 Unknown: If the letter from the country would be an "O" well then it would be easier. If true, that actually helps. It means that the markers were new and prominent when Preiss went to bury the casques. It also means that trail would have been fresh and not overgrown as they tend to get after years on neglect. IOW, something that would have easily attracted his attention. I know it doesn't help identify the burial ground, but does reinforce (at least to me) that we are on the right track. I don't follow. What does this mean?

I just now realized the "beating of the world" doesnt need to to be first thought of as WWII and then fooled with like a missing letters guessing game. The cleanest way to deal with it is to envision Byron standing on Wells street in view of the Mitchell House. Wells = H.G.Wells = War of the Worlds = "beating of the world". Its just that simple and its not necessary to think in terms of WWII. Im sticking with the Wells theme for Time Travel. Ticking time...a measurement of degrees on a circle. Travelling...a measure of distance.

catherwood wrote:: I'm ready to drink a fifth of whiskey while dressed like James Monroe wearing a giant letter E on my head, if it would help. I'd like a fifth of WISH KEY. *flips a penny into a wishing well*

Aren't there german things/beer gardens in some of these parks? Why would a Girl Scout symbol in any way resemble a "letter from <likely Germany>" I always expected this one to be passing a sign with an esset or umlauts.

The girl scout markers had a GS on them. G is a letter from Germany.

I... think that's more than a little bit tenuous, but alright. Especially since they said "GS" and not just "G." I'd be shocked if this clue wasn't referring to something a bit more obvious than the letter G next to the S (but ignore the S!)

decibalnyc wrote:: The girl scout markers had a GS on them. G is a letter from Germany. D is from Deutschland.

This is what the Girl Scout marker looks like. It has enough letters for almost any "country".

That's an absolutely awful match. There is almost no way in hades that refers to "a letter from wunderstone's hearth." I always assumed there was a big stylized GS or something on there. Has this really been the basis for multiple theories/digs? I'm sorry if i seem rude, but this might be the worst case of "desperately wanting our theory to be right" I've seen. There is no possible way that marker fits the clue as written.

Xieish wrote:: That's an absolutely awful match. There is almost no way in hades that refers to "a letter from wunderstone's hearth." I always assumed there was a big stylized GS or something on there. Has this really been the basis for multiple theories/digs? I'm sorry if i seem rude, but this might be the worst case of "desperately wanting our theory to be right" I've seen. There is no possible way that marker fits the clue as written. You're right...I would probably just stay away from Lake Park, and dissuade anyone else from looking there.

I never said any of those words, so I'm not sure what I'm right about. You're an intelligent person. It's entirely possible that the solution is in Lake Park but those markers have nothing to do with it. It's also possible that it's not in lake park, but either way those girl scout markers are not involved in this puzzle. If that's the best we can do for any of the clues then what's the point of this hunt? If the clues aren't solvable then why are we here? If that is the "letter from wunderstone's hearth" what's the point of solving any of the clues, if they could all wind up being completely unrelated markers with tons of non-unique letters on them? At that point a sign that says "LAKE PARK" or "HELLO" would be equally valid. L is a letter in german, so is H.

If they appeared on a proud tall fifth...Yes...any letters would be pertinent.

Sure, if we had it all solved and were left with the obvious "huh, I guess these HAD to be the markers, what a bad clue!" But we're not. If you threw out everything we "knew" about these hunts and someone came to this board with that image and said "letter from wunderstone's hearth" we would all politely thank them for their time and disregard it. Nobody would be convinced by that image who was not already convinced of the theory it is shoehorned to fit. Can you really believe that marker means "a letter from wunderstone's hearth" objectively? I can't fathom it, knowing what we know about the rest of the clues. They're fairly obvious and make sense. "M and B" does not refer to a sign that say "Make way for Beautiful sunshine!" The clues are at least a little specific. Why even have that clue? The GSA have tons of history, is a reference to Germany really the best way to bring attention to that marker? Would anyone walking around in 1982 see that marker and go "Ah yes, this is a letter from Wunderstones hearth"? I just can't believe it. I gain nothing from being contrary, as I'm not in Milwaukee and likely never will be, but someone needs to call this out, that is an awful match to the clue. This is my first time actually seeing the marker in question. It doesn't mean Lake Park is wrong but proceeding like THIS is the only thing that can be the answer to that line is... well it seems ridiculous to me and so unlike the rest of the work applied to this & other puzzles. It's inconsistent with the absolutely excellent work we've seen done on these puzzles.

A tree with a metal marker of any kind on it mi ghostt be considered like a "medal of honor" to the Dwarven Fair Folk. Thats the only way I can see the word 'proud' ascribed to a tree.

erexere wrote:: A tree with a metal marker of any kind on it mi ghostt be considered like a "medal of honor" to the Dwarven Fair Folk. Thats the only way I can see the word 'proud' ascribed to a tree. See this is how you help rule these clues in or out...Erexere, that's a great comment, much better than just saying that it's wrong....better to discuss in a positive way.

I'd have to agree that if Preiss had been talking about one of those markers, then the fact that it contains a letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth, is not a good clue.

Unknown: If that's the best we can do for any of the clues then what's the point of this hunt? If the clues aren't solvable then why are we here? With all due respect, I think we have a pretty definitive path that leads us to the end of the NLB Ravine. With the exception of one clue ("after climbing the grand 200"), most of the rest of the verse leads us unequivocally to there. I mean, it can't all be coincidence, can it? So, IMO at least, many of the clues are solvable and that's why we are here. To shed whatever light we can on a 33 year old mystery. The problem is that after 33 years, some of the clues may not be solvable (for any number of reasons). If they come in the middle of the verse, we may be able to safely skip over them as long as we have a clear understanding of what precedes, and what follows (which is why the "grand 200", while annoying, isn't an obstacle to finding the treasure ground). However, if the lines in question are the markers to the exact plot of land where we are supposed to dig, well then, the odds of digging up the casque decrease significantly. If you don't like the odds, then perhaps this isn't the place for you. But please, be a little more considerate to those of us who embrace the challenge and keep looking for ways to increase those odds in our favor. Trees and girls scout markers are the best we've got right now. It might be the best we'll ever get. But I'm convinced that we are in the right place, and if the protocols for this verse are consistent, then we are within a few hundred feet of the treasure ground. As always, my two cents.

Unknown: I'd have to agree that if Preiss had been talking about one of those markers, then the fact that it contains a letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth, is not a good clue. Would you agree that the puzzle (as a whole) has it's share of "bad clues" ? And if so, is it possible that some of the clues were bad from the jump, and not just because time and change has made them bad? Answering my own question, I think the "after climbing the grand 200" was a bad clue from inception. On the other hand, "the first young birch" and "the letter of wonderstone's hearth" might be examples of clues that made perfect sense in 1982, but just doesn't fit the treasure ground today. A better example might be "the end of 10 X 13" in Chicago. It might have lead precisely to the casque in 1983 (although, it is well documented that even with that, the finders still needed help and confirmation from Preiss), but today, anyone in that corner of Grant Park is left scratching their head on what exactly Preiss meant by "10 X 13". Doesn't mean you abandon all the other clues. It just means you find something (maybe a historical picture or document) that might shed a little light on the clue. For me, I'll switch gears on this one when someone shows me something better for the verse as a whole, not just a line here or there.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: For me, I'll switch gears on this one when someone shows me something better for the verse as a whole, not just a line here or there. I have to agree, the verse works up to the birch...then you are only 2 directions away from a potential dig spot.

Nobody said anything about switching gears or the theory being false. I'm sorry to call him out but decibalnyc made that up and attributed it to me. Why are we now discussing that like it was ever on the table? However, just because the clue may be "dead" and unsolvable in 2014 doesn't mean I need to accept that Girl Scout marker in any way shape, or form as a "replacement" clue. I agree 100% that there are clues that no longer exist. I do not think that the Girl Scout marker somehow makes up for that, nor do i think the GS marker not being the "letter from wunderstone's hearth" means that Lake Park/the whole theory is bunk. I literally never said that.

I've often went wrong by my own persistence to treat the puzzle in the way I hope it works, rather than how it actually works. It's a tough line when drawing conclusions formed by an unknown mix playful references that are sometimes literal and exact and at other times once or twice removed by a layer of implication. There was a time some of us treated the verse like it wasn't linear...that only made us cringe at the unfathomable possibilities and futility of the notion. I've thought the juggler was symbolic for juggling the verse lines, thus opening this puzzle to such a nonlinear idea. It's always possible, but I think we would agree that it needs to be justifiable at the inset. A juggler with seven objects could mean a lot of things. How we treat symbolism in the images, whether it's just a rebus or some connection to the month of a birthstone will continue to be a factor. Until we find another casque, I hesitate to ignore such possibilities.

Unknown: The cleanest way to deal with it is to envision Byron standing on Wells street in view of the Mitchell House. Wells = H.G.Wells = War of the Worlds = "beating of the world". Its just that simple and its not necessary to think in terms of WWII Unknown: Im sticking with the Wells theme for Time Travel. Ticking time...a measurement of degrees on a circle. Travelling...a measure of distance. I honestly don't think this is part of the solution, but as a starting point, it actually makes sense. In the abstract, it's on the same level as Mitchell Hall on Kenwood. I'm with you so far. And you've lost me. All I can say is that if these puzzles follow this degree of complexity, and I should note that the two that have been solved did not, then there is no hope. For me at least. "Three stories" is a building, "nature" is a park, "copper" is a Lincoln Penny, and "steps" is a staircase. Like that.

I saw something somewhere...not sure what I was watching...I think it was a ship captain using a tool to plot a course on a map. It looked like a compass. If I understand it correctly, he measured the distance traveled in one day and then "walked" the tool across the map some number of times to show how much distance would be traveled in some number of days. I think this is the idea behind using a map of Milwaukee. I'm trying to replicate this with an online tool, but It's clumsy. I wish I had an actual map of Milwaukee...then I'd just do this by hand and feel good about it.

Unknown: nor do i think the GS marker not being the "letter from wunderstone's hearth" means that Lake Park/the whole theory is bunk. I literally never said that. Ok, so you like the theory up until we get to the "first young birch" but not so much from there (including absolute disdain for the GS Medallion connection), correct? Without putting words into anyone else's mouth, and allowing for differences of opinion on how exactly the trail markers figured into the end game, I think that's the consensus. But we have to consider that back in 1981, when the trail was new and freshly marked, those medallions would have been hard to miss. Being highly visible is kind of the point, after all.

Check this out, Find the unique spot on the city map where you view City Hall. Mark it down on a map. Point A. Find Plankington at 200 Grand. Mark it down. Point B. Relate these to the solar system. Point A is the Sun. Point B, having to do with following the Wells street to a Wishing Well with HG Wells references of The War of the Worlds to The Time Machine and then consider that HG is a mercury reference, Hg, but also the first planet. Use Points A to B as that unit distance reference on the map. Walk the compass seven steps.

"Step on nature". Literally. hxxp://tinyurl.com/qjtyd2x

That's not exactly literally. This isn't an argument, but if "Nature" was written on the ground I'd agree with your literally.

Unknown: if "Nature" was written Blah, blah... blah blah blah. Somewhere in a dusty old cardboard box, there is a polaroid of this sign. Preiss wasn't being poetic when he wrote the clue "step on nature". He was being literal.* *The usual disclaimers about these being my words and my thoughts (original or adopted) apply. Proceed accordingly.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: "Step on nature". Literally. hxxp://tinyurl.com/qjtyd2x I'm not saying this is what BP intended because the date and placement of the sign isn't verified, but this is as literal as it gets for me. Additionally, how about this for a literal interpretation of "wonderstones hearth" with a German connection (which also likely has no connection, but the date is good): hxxp://www.loc.gov/item/ncr000922/ . See the red ball? LOL.

Hi four21! Such a lovely hearth...! And so warm and cozy. Winter is coming early to Wisconsin with morning temps in the 30s already. But we will keep looking until we find the casque...or the snow covers the ground. AP

Unknown: I'm not saying this is what BP intended because the date and placement of the sign isn't verified Very true. I was just having a little fun. But if the sign was there in 1981...

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Very true. I was just having a little fun. But if the sign was there in 1981... ... Then we'd be exactly in the same spot we are now?

Unknown: Winter is coming early to Wisconsin with morning temps in the 30s already As it has (give or take a few weeks) for at least the last 33 years. All the more reason to think that the northern casques were already in the ground by the late summer or early fall of 1981. The 5 southern casques and the one in San Francisco, on the other hand, could have been buried any time of year.

Unknown: Then we'd be exactly in the same spot we are now? Well, not exactly. We would have one more clue where Preiss' exact meaning (or as close as we can come) was known. Please excuse my presumption, but I think there is still some value in this, even if it doesn't lead directly to unearthing a casque.

The Kenwood Chef was developed by Ken Wood in Britain and the first model - the A700 - went on sale in 1950 with an array of attachments to whisk, mix, mince and liquidise food. It was an instant success and after numerous models and updates is still Kenwood's top seller today. hxxp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... YEARS.html

I found the link to how to divide or extrapolate distance, this must be considered as a very easy and accessible method suitable for what could be meant by "Pass the compass", hxxp://www.boatsafe.com/navigation/divide1.htm hxxp://americanhistory.si.edu/collectio ... -compasses I applied it to this visual representation based on two very critical points. A) the exact match of the image of City Hall as a position on a city map, B) the intersection of 200 and Grand. I use the distance from A to B to establish the setting on the compass and the direction of the line which so happens to be 200-degrees on a circle which starts with 0-degrees at north on the map. This is extremely easy to verify and nothing too fancy, though I wouldn't be surprised if some people are shy of using a ruler, compass, and 360-degree measurement tool. The very first stepping of the compass lands on the bank of the historic Milwaukee Sewerage District, which is something considered to be at the lowest elevation for the purpose of sewage treatment and ease of access to river water for pumping. Could this sewer facility be the interpretation for the line that follows "pass the compass"? Is a context for a culvert? Also, does "below the bridge" lead us to the idea of "looking to the future," as in "water under the bridge"? After seven steps, we land in a spot which is highly consistent with walking 100 paces south east to the entrance of the park where we find a young birch and then only three more birch on our approach to a 1/5th rank statue of Brigadier General Kosciuszko.

I have a pet theory that the line "cast in copper" not only helps us find a typically circular wishing well, it may have been worded in such a way as to be a hint for Polish astronomer Copernicus, "copper in cast".

OK but city hall is on the other side of Kilbourn, you're starting point A from Starbucks on that map. That's a good 70-100 yards away.

decibalnyc wrote:: OK but city hall is on the other side of Kilbourn, you're starting point A from Starbucks on that map. That's a good 70-100 yards away. I'm actually suggesting a spot about 200 yards away where you stand up on the top level of the parking structure across from the Marcus Center and you take a photo of city hall. The point is to match the exact outline of city hall to that of the painting. I can only approximate based on google's fancy car camera and hope that the curvature of the angle hasn't thrown me off the perspective. If I lived in Milwaukee, I'd have this fact figured out first. It's a unique landmark, we all seem to agree that it's city hall, yet nobody has bothered to identify the exact position one must stand to have a match. Probably because it might cost them $5.00 to use the garage...

Considering you can see the front doorway arch in the picture, it would have been taken from just in front of the BMO bank aiming north if that helps.

I'm not seeing the doorway arch you're talking about. When I took a look from the BMO entrance, it gave me a view looking north at city hall which had a dominant view of the clock spire.

I really like this view from the corner of the Marcus Center looking south, which shows both spires in level alignment and it looks like the view might be perfect if taken from a vantage point a 10-20 yards west. Because that would make the Marcus Center itself an obstruction, I'm proposing that we take a view from higher up, across the street from the parking structure.

As you can see, pictures taken from a spot about 100 yards closer and 20 yards to the east show the spires in a much different position because of parallax.

This is going to sound nutzo, but I read the field guide entry for the Pre-Revolutionary Warlock for the first time today and it really compels me to consider there is more going on than we've been led to believe. If you've been following my recent ideas about Image 10/Verse 8, then you'll know I'm pushing for some connections based on a small variety of considerations, namely things to do with: waiters, footmen, beer, boots, cobbling, chambermaids, seven dwarfs, units of measuring distance and time, draft compasses, dividers, tumbling, polishing, HG Wells and time traveling. So I take a moment to read the p100 entry followed by two photo pages. I catch the use of the word 'cobblers' and 'chamber pots' and 'beer'. I notice the picture has the number 7 in a couple places and also the initials HG might be extracted from the upper right corner. The second page talks about polishing a canon for auction. Perhaps Warlock is a good nudge for the word Morlock, the creatures from HG Wells' story the Time Machine. It looks to me like someone who knew the inner workings of the puzzle had a little fun with this particular entry.

Erex, The shot you showed from the BMO bank has the front door archway in it!! ...and if you move east on the sidwalk of water st. going towards the bank entrance, which I have done when using that bank many times, both spires comes into view and it puts the entrance arch in the right place...next time I am downtown I will try to stop there and snap a picture for you. If you look from wells st. east of water, it makes more sense as that doorway arch is on the south side of the corner as well as the east side of the corner and the west....a shot from the west is impossible it makes everything the wrong perspective...from dead south, you would have the doorway, but the spires would be uneven. Only a shot from the southeast would give that perspective, still including the archway...but the spires would be different height's. This is the correct position...but there is more... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0410771 ... GfajUg!2e0 Because of the perspective I can tell you that the polaroid was most likely snapped from the Sky lounge on top of the Pfister hotel...likely that if Preiss stayed the night, he would have stayed at the Pfister. It's illustrated as an upwards shot from the north west...that would make the spires correct in height because you would be shooting from the side of the short north spire making it the same size as the taller southern spire...more logically, BP took a shot from the southeast from ABOVE creating the proper perspective for the spires and allowing for the prominent doorway arch to be represented. There are half arches around the building, but the doorway arch stands out big time. I have been to the Sky bar many times doing gigs, I've seen that perspective and it's a pretty good match.

After closer examination of the image, I have to conclude that your shot from the northwest by the PAC does seem to be the right perspective...the doorway arch must have been an "artistic license" on JJP...it certainly does match up better from the northwest...the spires would be reversed from the Pfister sky bar shot...good work...he probably passed the Pabst theater on the way and snapped a picture of the doors which have the neck design on it. Good work

To clarify, I don't see any evidence that this "divider" or compass method is used in any other puzzle. I think its unique to Milwaukee for its focus on the dwarf themed jewel as something of a stereotypical view that the dwarfs are known for their masonry and engineering. I wonder if that's how Gygax portrayed them in late 79 or 80. This is why I think its really important to find a good reference match of city hall to position. Its exactly how someone would go about tailoring such a method to plot a course as the crow flies. I have one request for anyone local to Milwaukee: please take a photo of the west side boot of the Kosciouszko monument. Lets compare the wrinkles above its ankle to the shape depicted in the cloak that is thought to be a multi-trunked tree.

Kozy park is not the greatest neighborhood. If I happen to be travelling by there I will get some shots for you, but I just feel that it's the wrong location for so many reasons that if I am going to work on this, I'd rather spend the time in a location that fits all the clues in the verse. Erexere, not to discourage you, cause it looks like you're having a lot of fun and coming up with interesting parallels...but even I have a hard time following some of your streams of consciousness. I don't think Milwaukee is any different than Cleveland or Chicago...the verse should take you right to the treasure grounds without having to use too much creative license. If there was a clear case for Kozy Park, I'd be with you 100%...there is just too much lacking for that location, and everything is represented in Lake Park...very hard to throw a location that has everything to make the verse work right in it. Just because there was 1 dig at a suspected area that came up blank, doesn't mean that the treasure isn't there. TenByThirteen said they dug like 6 or 7 holes before finding the Chicago casque. Even after BP confirmed they were in the right spot, they dug 3 holes and found nothing. Then he sent them a photo of the burial spot, and they dug, and were about to give up and Rob or someone threw the shovel in disgust and when they did some dirt fell off a side wall in the hole exposing the casque. Maybe the first dig was in the wrong area, but why rule out a place that seems to fit everything in the verse better than any other place in the city does. Like I said, I sometimes go through that area...if it's daylight out, I will get you pictures next time I do.

Thanks! I completely understand.

decibalnyc wrote:: TenByThirteen said they dug like 6 or 7 holes before finding the Chicago casque. Even after BP confirmed they were in the right spot, they dug 3 holes and found nothing. Well, exactly. And in the Cleveland hunt they started at the wrong end of the flower bed and dug for five hours before they ended up in the right place. But BP and JJP obviously didn't mean for you to bring a bulldozer and start tearing up these public parks. They wanted you to use a different and very precise system to find the spot for digging. The visual references and the clues in the text will get you to the right general area, but once you're there you'll still need to do the geometry. (Or bring a backhoe.)

Unknown: The visual references and the clues in the text will get you to the right general area, but once you're there you'll still need to do the geometry I'm not sure I agree with this. In Cleveland, the verse told them exactly where to dig, based on the placement of certain stones in the wall. The problem was that "right to left" should have been "left to right". The geometry is nice, but they had everything they needed to dig up the casque without it. And in the case of Chicago, if the geometry was so important to the final dig location, don't you think Priess would have told them that they were on the right track, but missing something that would confirm the precise spot, instead of just sending them the picture? Especially given his reticence with the good people here for the same type of help when time and renovation had significantly altered the visual clues, and his help would have been truly appreciated? And in Milwaukee, the verse is clear: dig at the southern foot of a tall tree with a letter on it. But the tree is gone, and with it, the precise location of the casque, geometry notwithstanding. The geometry is nice, and in some form that I am still noodling with, points to something that you should be able to see clearly when standing on the treasure ground, or would have seen in 1982. But I don't think that it points the precise location of the casque.

When Erexere said Milwaukee was a special case, that's defiantly correct. It has very little in the way of obvious clues. At least in Chicago and Cleveland, the clues are distinct...the wall, the fence post, the fountain, the bowman, all we have is a mish mash of dark trees, dark outlines, and the objects in the rebus code. The pattern from the Pabst Theater, that's difficult, it's only on 1 place on 1 outside door, so if you've never been in there you wouldn't recognize it. Even City Hall is all dark and blurred out. The dark images all over the cape and gown...I mean c'mon...is it a horse hoof, is it a tree, is it a topo map...it's insane, is it a bell, a shoreline, a road...is that the lighthouse between the 4 trunk tree, is it a lamp, is it a tree.... Out of all the images I have found that this one makes my brain hurt the most.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I'm not sure I agree with this. In Cleveland, the verse told them exactly where to dig, based on the placement of certain stones in the wall. The problem was that "right to left" should have been "left to right". Can you see the contradiction in what you just wrote? You're saying that the verse gives the exact location and the only problem is that the verse is wrong. That's a problem all right. I salute Egbert for his persistence, but I don't think many of us could get away with digging for five hours or over that broad an area in the other casque locations. BP needed a precise way of pinpointing the exact spot so searchers would dig only a single hole. He gave his readers multiple pathways to get to the general area, but then he used a set of geometry problems to put people in the exact spot. Did you look at that line I posted in the thread for Image 4? It doesn't just go to the general area. It doesn't just go close. It goes over the exact spot . (A line from the hand through the jewel, by the way, goes wide by about 15 feet.) Of course, a straight line contains an infinite number of points. One needs an intersecting line to define a single point. Hmm.... How goes the Milwaukee search, by the way?

Oregonian wrote:: I salute Egbert for his persistence, but I don't think many of us could get away with digging for five hours or over that broad an area in the other casque locations. How goes the Milwaukee search, by the way? Forest, Pine, and several others dug for 5+ hours around the base of a tree in Milwaukee in 2006 uncovering a yard and a half of dirt. The Milwaukee search is good, have a few new locations, a mock up of the casque and box on the way, and all of next week to work...steady as she goes.

Unknown: Can you see the contradiction in what you just wrote? You're saying that the verse gives the exact location and the only problem is that the verse is wrong. That's a problem all right. But the verse does gives us an exact location to dig: In a rectangular plot Beneath the tenth stone From right to left Beneath the ninth row from the top Of the wall including small bricks Our line experiment suggests one as well. Problem is, they are on opposite sides of the planter. There are only four possibilities that reconcile both conditions: 1) The verse has a directional error in it. Change "right to left" to "left to right" and we are good to go. Everything fits together nicely. 2) The interpretation of the verse is wrong. Egbert was there, so perhaps he is the best person to ask if this was a possibility. But as written, it only works if you are counting stones as you face away from the wall. Kinda hard to do. 3) The interpretation of the line experiment is wrong. It suggests the planter, but it is not meant to suggest the exact spot in the planter. 4) The casque was buried on the left side, but shifted to the right side over the 20 years that it was in the ground, either naturally or during a remodel. Since I'm not sold on the idea of the geometry leading to an exact dig spot, I'm leaning toward the first explanation as being the most likely. But I'm willing to be convinced if you can show how it works for Chicago and Milwaukee. I just can't see how those images allow the same level of precision that you are touting in Cleveland.

I don't like the Grand Stair count. The numeric label on stair #56 being placed on the tread because the riser is obscured by a glove is acceptable, but the fact that the very first step is counted as a tread for which there is no immediate riser causes concern. According to the careful count of risers convention the "main" of the Grand Stair is only 91 steps, unless there's a very good explanation for counting the tread that comes before the first riser and then the second and third treads as belonging to three stair steps when its really two risers = two stair steps. I'm not trying to accuse anyone of intentional misinformation. I think this is just a case of human error. The Grand Stair may not be the 92-steps ascended.

I understand what you're saying, erexere. But remember the steps are very old, and the bricks at the bottom are (relatively speaking) much newer. It's likely that the bricks cover the first step or half-step, so that the first riser is now flush with the bricks.

f_b, that"s something I thought might be the case. It's frustrating to fact check the details of the past. I have to think this is the phantom-step until some proof is produced. Even though the brickwork at the base is proven newer, it's not a guarantee that step #1's riser was sacrificed.

Just breaking it down to more basic terms.... Is there any other location in Milwaukee, where all of the things from the verse are in one general location? I would be more than willing to dismiss lake park and examine another park or area of town that has all of these elements located within a 2-3 mile area, where one clue leads to the next and makes sense. There are too many coincidences that are right up BP's alley...The Grand Staircase and The Grand 200, The compass and the NORTH POINT lighthouse...the bridges, the ravines's or culverts... IF there was another area where this all made sense...I would love to find it...but from anything of Mitchell that has 3 stories...weather you are talking the Mansion, or the Domes, there is nothing else that fits better than Lake Park...even with the disagreements about the verse...it still makes the most sense.

Unknown: I have to think this is the phantom-step until some proof is produced. Even though the brickwork at the base is proven newer, it's not a guarantee that step #1's riser was sacrificed. Easy enough to check if it was important enough. Discretely remove on of the dentil bricks (the ones that run perpendicular to the tread) and see if the riser of what we are calling the first tread is made of granite, and how far down it goes. When there is a change in material, conventional masonry stairs put the first tread above the landing, and not on the same plane as it appears in the picture. But if you had to raise the level of the landing for any reason, then it makes perfect sense that you would raise it up so it was in line with the first tread to avoid a smaller first step (which can be a real tripping hazard). The alternative is to excavate the landing, or cut away the first tread so you can account for the thickness of the brick, and both of these options are significantly more work that the method that they employed here. There is nothing about that picture that is inconsistent with this theory, as far as I can tell.

The case being that the inner workings of these puzzles is still unknown and any conception based on Cleveland or Chicago is a work in progress that hasn't brought any certain results for the other puzzles, I think its saying something that we have narrowed our focus to a relatively small number of options limited to a select few methodologies. When you say something makes sense, you're arguing for an oversimplification of what entails a host of different processes depending on how many components are in play. If you allow yourself to be convinced of a specific location based on preponderance, you're really expressing the view that the puzzle couldn't possibly be designed otherwise because it would mean BP was an evil genius. I like the example of the North Point Lighthouse. Supposing we don't have absolute proof of there being 92 steps, if its only 91, we're allowed to assume BP made a slight error of no consequence. That NPL is just a small distance away and it fits a clever idea that a directional compass ALSO points north, it forges an immutable course in our minds. Is this BP's straightforwardness or a case of evil genuisitis? We do have alternatives. Its only opinion that separates one prospect from another. We label something as significant and making sense at the risk of exercising faulty judgement. Cleveland and Chicago have left us scant evidence of their inner workings. When were given step by step guidance to the casque but still questioning why BP mixes up right with left, we cant say much with confidence as we interpret puzzles which have even less direct guidance. If NPL is to be an imaginative component of the solution, then I'd expect we've thoroughly tested the more literal options first. But we haven't. The directional compass would require a strong point of reference and a heading. A heading would be something like "southeast" or 135-degrees (headings are generally set at 0-degrees = north and increase towards 360-degrees clockwise). The other compass option would be a draft style compass using a map and taking a point-to-point read of distance as a method for approximating the time it takes to navigate a course. This draft compass is practically the same as a divider, only one end has a writing implement, which may be used for drawing an arc. These may seem like intimidating tools to the feint of heart, but should we rule them out so quickly just because we have a more imaginative possibility within reach or because we would argue Chicago and Cleveland didn't use maps and map tools?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: But the verse does gives us an exact location to dig: In a rectangular plot Beneath the tenth stone From right to left Beneath the ninth row from the top Of the wall including small bricks Our line experiment suggests one as well. Problem is, they are on opposite sides of the planter. There are only four possibilities that reconcile both conditions: 1) The verse has a directional error in it. Change "right to left" to "left to right" and we are good to go. Everything fits together nicely. 2) The interpretation of the verse is wrong. Egbert was there, so perhaps he is the best person to ask if this was a possibility. But as written, it only works if you are counting stones as you face away from the wall. Kinda hard to do. 3) The interpretation of the line experiment is wrong. It suggests the planter, but it is not meant to suggest the exact spot in the planter. 4) The casque was buried on the left side, but shifted to the right side over the 20 years that it was in the ground, either naturally or during a remodel. Since I'm not sold on the idea of the geometry leading to an exact dig spot, I'm leaning toward the first explanation as being the most likely. But I'm willing to be convinced if you can show how it works for Chicago and Milwaukee. I just can't see how those images allow the same level of precision that you are touting in Cleveland. The only way that the verse is correct for Cleveland is if you are standing in front of the wall and counting the stones. Then, you have to go to the back of the wall to dig in the spot you get to. This just does not make much sense to me, since BP gives the clue "7 steps up you can hop," which puts you at the back of the wall. So, it is possible that BP just made a mistake and mixed up left and right. That conclusion does not bode well for the rest of the verses - hopefully he did not make any other "mistakes." That sort of confirms my impression of BP - that he was somewhat of an "absent minded professor" type - very smart, but sometimes can make a simple error. To tell you the truth, with all of the excitement after finding the casque, taking photos, washing off the pieces, and having to rush to drive home many hours, no one ever bothered to check and see if the verse was correct if you were standing in front of the wall. If someone is in the Cleveland area, it would be great if you could double check this. To answer everyone's question, yes, the casque was found on the right hand side of the planter, if you are standing behind the wall and facing the wall. So, the geometry referred to above seems to hit the location of the casque in the planter.

Unknown: So, the geometry referred to above seems to hit the location of the casque in the planter. Thank you for your feedback. There is so much uncertainty and second-guessing with these puzzles, even with things that we believer to be accurate beyond a reasonable doubt (hello again 92 steps). It's nice to know that some things are absolute.

Here's my visual concept, showing the two types of compass. One type may be used to set a heading of 200-degrees, the other type can be walked 7 steps once the Plankington rotunda and the specific view of City Hall are discovered,

Also, p.101 seems to be consistent with my theory: German theme - upper right corner writing says "A. G. Hugo" aka Hugo Boss AG, German apparel company. Notice how the initials G and H might be a loose hint for H.G. Wells. Writing below A.G.Hugo says "Co.K". Is that for Company K? Is "K" a clue for Kosciouszko? Uniform has the number 7 Pre-Revolutionary Warlock might be a loose hint for Morlock of H.G. Wells' Time Machine story and also might be a hint about American Revolutionary Thaddeus Kosciouszko. p.102 says the Warlock is "polishing" the canon for auction. Kosciouszko is Polish. Wonderstones are polished. Time to polish off some beer.

Something I hoped could receive some discussion is the way the four lines could work starting with "at a distance..." to "...harpsichord". Looks like we might try coordinating the word 'time' with 'from three' and then 'space' with 'from woman'. Time and three, might be saying "from the direction east" if 3 "o'clock is taken as a direction. So the two lines together would mean "go west + who lived there?" I want to think Plankington, because his statue sits in the center of the building named for him and was described as his home. I want to check that. It looks like such a commercial type building. Was that really his mansion long ago? Now space and from woman as a direction is really wonky. Whats that symbol for for woman on an astrology chart? Its like a key...a circle with a "t" below it. Does that mean anything to anyone? Is it the same symbol for a planet or something? Oh yes, its the symbol for Venus or the chemical element copper. So at a distance from the second planet + "with harpsichord"...weird. gonna think more about this strangeness.

From a solar system perspective, I think of the number 3 as reference to Earth. I think of H.G. Wells as reference to Mercury (Hg - element). I think of Woman as Venus (copper). This whole planetary reference system could be applied in a number of ways when looking at a map, but first requires really good points of reference...seems a weak spot in this whole line of thought.

The Voyager space probe was a glorified record player, silently playing in the vacuum of space. It contained a platter of copper, coated with gold, containing sounds of Earth and a variety of music samples. The first music track is Brandenburg Concerto No. 2 by Bach with harpsichord. My thoughts on this don't really go anywhere except in terms of space and distance, Im thinking "from woman" = Venus and since Venus is the second planet from the Sun, maybe the instruction is "from 2nd street, take a voyage". hxxp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QSgkeOwTVx8

I think the divider-instrument on a map is a good idea for how to apply the word 'voyager'. Another idea might be to find something relating to Leif Erikson.

How many believe that BP used "woman with harpsichord silently playing" to indicate Marietta? I ask because I believe I have found another painting's title that links to a verse line, and that the line would only make sense if you knew the title of the painting (which I flippin' hate).

Four21... I would definitely like to see another idea about the "harpsichord".... ! AP

animal painter wrote:: Four21... I would definitely like to see another idea about the "harpsichord".... ! AP me too! but i am talking about a different verse. i was never quite kosher with the painting reference because it seemed too far outside the scope of tangible clues (i.e., you needed to research) to find. that is why i am asking... if this same type of method (i.e., name of a painting referred to clues on ground) was evident in a different verse, it would make it more valid for both.

The painting of Marietta with the harpsichord is as good as it gets to answer the question about verse 8's "Woman with harpsichord". Marietta Ave. is in line with the other streets named for the three other famous people who lived in Milwaukee, and it gets us down Kenwood Blvd to Lincoln Memorial Drive. To which verse are you applying your painting/title?

animal painter wrote:: The painting of Marietta with the harpsichord is as good as it gets... I've always thought the same thing. It just seems to be a totally different type of clue than any one used in either Cleveland or Chicago. The line refers to something completely outside of anything you could find on the ground. But the thing it refers to, in turn, refers to something you could find on the ground. I really don't like that. It's made me look for alternate interpretations for the lines. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a decent one. Running into what may be a second instance, IMO, of the exact type of clue in a different verse (where the line only makes sense when knowing the name of a painting, which is featured at a local art museum, which in turn refers to something back on the ground), is odd to me. I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad.

Unknown: How many believe that BP used "woman with harpsichord silently playing" to indicate Marietta? If you mean Marietta Avenue, then me. But mostly because of how well Marietta Avenue fits into the narrative. The fact is, of the first seven lines of this verse, the only one that seems sure fire to me is the first one (View the three stories of Mitchell). The rest are subject to research and interpretation (although it can't be a coincidence how well the next six mesh with the surrounding geography of Mitchell Hall). Preiss wasn't from the area, so it probably required some research on his part to learn that the streets leading to Lake Park were named after some of Milwaukee's most prominent citizens (three who lived there). It's entirely possible that the same source gave him the idea for the Marietta reference (as opposed to thinking that he was familiar with a fairly obscure painting and made the connection himself), it appealed to him, and he ran with it. He might have reasoned that even if no one understood this clue, it wouldn't prevent them from getting to the treasure ground, and would add a little complexity to a puzzle that he was afraid would be solved in its entirety in a few months, tops.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: (where the line only makes sense when knowing the name of a painting, which is featured at a local art museum, which in turn refers to something back on the ground), is odd to me. I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad. Well I was considering why he thought they were too easy, so I immediately started looking for patterns, but with only 2 solutions it's hard to find real patters vs. coincidence. It could be possible that each city has something in common...a visit to a musuem, a visit to a historical landmark, a library etc.... Maybe they all have something in common, but until we find 3 or 4 it may not be that apparent.

decibalnyc wrote:: Well I was considering why he thought they were too easy, so I immediately started looking for patterns, but with only 2 solutions it's hard to find real patters vs. coincidence. It could be possible that each city has something in common...a visit to a musuem, a visit to a historical landmark, a library etc.... Maybe they all have something in common, but until we find 3 or 4 it may not be that apparent. decibalnyc wrote:: Well I was considering why he thought they were too easy, so I immediately started looking for patterns, but with only 2 solutions it's hard to find real patters vs. coincidence. It could be possible that each city has something in common...a visit to a musuem, a visit to a historical landmark, a library etc.... Maybe they all have something in common, but until we find 3 or 4 it may not be that apparent. Well, I have also been looking for this because I haven't been convinced about the Olmsted significance (that dude was everywhere). I've been looking at BP making stops at the local art museums, which Chicago seemed to point out, and I've had some great success. I haven't shared this before because I have been working on it's significance. I'll let you all find others (I'll share a couple good ones, IMO), but here's four to peak your interest... The Chicago image utilized the Great Lakes Fountain. The Cleveland image utilized the Man and Horse Armour. The Charleston image utilized the Persephone Fountain. The Boston image utilized the Horus Falcon (Horace ). Interestingly, BP also seemed to rely on a work of art featured in some museums, too.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: here's four to peak your interest... The Chicago image utilized the Great Lakes Fountain. The Cleveland image utilized the Man and Horse Armour. The Charleston image utilized the Persephone Fountain. The Boston image utilized the Horus Falcon (Horace ). Consider our interest piqued, but what are you talking about? Is there some work of art called "The Man and Horse Armour"? And how would that tie in with an unarmed centaur?

Oregonian wrote:: Consider our interest piqued, but what are you talking about? Is there some work of art called "The Man and Horse Armour"? And how would that tie in with an unarmed centaur? Look at the art museums... man and horse... centaur... derp. And thank you for correcting my "peak."

What about proximity to college campus' ?

Actually getting off topic with this...interesting and valid conversation, but I think it's for a different thread. I have it on good authority from someone close to BP that he did have some knowledge of trees, and I believe he would have known a birch tree from any other in the woods. There was some question as to weather he knew his trees or not, I would say he did. We are defiantly looking for a photo from the 80's with a birch tree at the end of the north ravine. We could also hope to find 2 or 3 in a line either to the north or south of the ravine, telling us where to go. I doubt that the "proud tall fifth" is a tree, but for now we need to verify the birch at the end of the north ravine. Those who follow the Lake Park solution, are we all in agreement that the verse is pretty clear from the top of the staircase to the bottom of the north ravine? After climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch I think the beginning of the verse could be figured out, but it's not crucial to solving it. Thoughts?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Well, I have also been looking for this because I haven't been convinced about the Olmsted significance (that dude was everywhere). I've been looking at BP making stops at the local art museums, which Chicago seemed to point out, and I've had some great success. I haven't shared this before because I have been working on it's significance. I'll let you all find others (I'll share a couple good ones, IMO), but here's four to peak your interest... The Chicago image utilized the Great Lakes Fountain. The Cleveland image utilized the Man and Horse Armour. The Charleston image utilized the Persephone Fountain. The Boston image utilized the Horus Falcon (Horace ). Interestingly, BP also seemed to rely on a work of art featured in some museums, too. Yes. Yes. I think this is prime source material for one of the "prongs" if you will, of the puzzles for each location. Local museums, art galleries, and cultural gardens...all within a "vicinity" of the burial location.

While we won't know for absolute until we dig up a few more, we have more than enough circumstantial evidence to pinpoint the general location of at least 3 casques in addition to the 2 that we already have out of the ground: Houston, Milwaukee, and Roanoke. Xiesih claims that he has the definitive solution to the Boston puzzle, so perhaps we can add that one to the list once he is ready to share his ideas publicly. That's six of twelve and if we add FOY, which also seems pretty solid, we have over half of the puzzle solved. Of the puzzles mentioned above, four fit the Chicago pattern (a walk [or ride] that takes you from Point A to Point T) and only one (FOY) that fits the Cleveland pattern (a fairly detailed description of the general area surrounding the treasure ground). Intuitively, this makes sense since we have to accept that in most cases, the treasure ground has probably changed significantly in the 33 years since Preiss buried the casques. The verses that focus on the treasure ground are therefore harder to decipher today for all those changes. As for an all encompassing unifying theme, I'm not sure it exists beyond what we have already discovered. Preiss probably had his routine as he traveled the country, and probably stuck to it as much as possible from city to city. And if it lead him to a suitable place to bury the casque, so much the better. But he probably had to make a fair amount of decisions on the fly (ground conditions, weather, prying eyes, information after the fact, etc.), since I don't believe he scouted all twelve locations in advance. IOW, I believe Preiss was flexible and we should be as well. Let me ask this question: Where would you bury the casque in Lake Park?

Unknown: I think the beginning of the verse could be figured out, but it's not crucial to solving it. Thoughts? Solving the first part of this verse isn't necessary to find the treasure in Milwaukee, but could prove to be useful for the other solves. As for the "proud tall fifth", if the "first" is a tree, and "three" are also trees, then it makes sense that "fifth" is a tree as well. Besides, unless things have changed significantly in that area (and historical photos seem to suggest that is not the case), what else in the immediate area is both "proud" and "tall"? There's a grown-up in Milwaukee that used to be a kid with a pen knife that need to come clean.

Renovator, I was wondering how long you've been working on these puzzles? I've been at it for a 3.5 years. Its amazing how even now, new ideas seem to be popping up to keep it interesting. This hunt has definitely been warming up and I believe more help from folks like yourself will help recover a casque someday soon.

Unknown: Renovator, I was wondering how long you've been working on these puzzles? Unknown: This hunt has definitely been warming up and I believe more help from folks like yourself will help recover a casque someday soon. For about 5 years now. But since I am at least 5 hours from the nearest treasure ground, and don't travel for work, I've never really given much thought to actually digging one of these things up. And it's only been recently that I thought that what I have learned from following the forum might be useful to the people who are actually willing to do the shovel work. Which is why I am more fully involved now. That is kind of you to say. I certainly hope that will be the case.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: As for the "proud tall fifth", if the "first" is a tree, and "three" are also trees, then it makes sense that "fifth" is a tree as well. This is one subject I would like to debate. I don't think the "proud tall fifth" is a 100% tree. I'm not ruling it out, or anything for that matter, but we should consider it could be something else. If you look at the verse that line is disconnected from the 2 instructions that we suspect involves trees. Because he makes the comment "you'll see a letter from the country of wonderstones hearth," This seems to signify something a little more than "here's a young birch" and "pass 3 more of them." Also BP was a knowledgeable person, I have some doubts as to weather he would put the actual casque next to a tree, unless there was another significant structure there. He would have seen the erosion problem, it was actually worse in 1981. I think there are still more options for our "fifth" besides a tree (no pun intended). I now know that BP at least had a general understanding of trees, so I believe an old photo will show a birch tree at the end of the north ravine. I also have expectations that we may uncover 3 more birch trees giving us a direction of travel. Depending on which way (north or south) we are directed to go from the ravine will give us more insight to what the "fifth" might be. It could be a tree, but I feel it could be a little more than that. Also, I would debate (on a separate issue) that BP did scout out all of these locations and I think he used ariel maps based on some of the clues in the image. He must have taken the time to visit downtown where city hall is and to learn about Downer, Shepherd, and Hackett for the verse...he didn't google any of this stuff, so I would guess he did some research. Also I don't think he would just go hiking with a casque a polaroid and a shovel looking for a good spot, he would have the spot already picked out and would probably drive there and park somewhat near the burial site. Please lets open this up for debate though, that is how we learn and advance!

What if you rearrange the "three" the verse is referring to just a bit, and you start at the art gallery? Something like this (farewell = relating to time; down = relating to space)... Mitchell Hall ----- View the three stories of Mitchell Kenwood ----- As you walk the beating of the world Farewell ----- At a distance in time Stowell, Hakett, Shepard ----- From three who lived there Downer ----- At a distance in space Marietta ----- From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing Oak Leaf ----- Step on nature Lincoln ----- Cast in copper Grand Stairs ----- Ascend the 92 steps Then... et al. ----- After climbing the grand 200

Sure but as far as 3 who lived there...he could be referring to the Mitchell brothers who all resided in Mitchell hall at one point in their life. OR as you said it could be Stowell, Hackett, and Shepard...but why those 3 and not James Murray, Leonard J. Farwell, or Jason Downer which are also streets named after famous Milwaukeeans that cross Kenwood in that same area? I have always wondered why people went right for those names as the 3 who lived there and disregarded the fact that Summit st. or the skipping of it, isn't accounted for in the verse, as well as the other streets named after famous locals nearby like Downer, the street Mitchell Hall is on. I always thought we entered the park wrong just walking down Kenwood...I thought there might be something more to how we enter the park which could come into play later on. Some say you don't need to have everything correct to locate the casque, but I think that overlooking something in the first part might lead to confusion in the 2nd part. So many things are based on numbers in this verse...3 who lived there, Pass 3, Proud tall fifth.... What if we were to be paying attention or counting something as we walk which would help us with the "fifth" later on...just a thought.

FYI hxxp://murrayhillna.org/aboutus/neighborhood-history/murray-hill-street-names/

decibalnyc wrote:: FYI hxxp://murrayhillna.org/aboutus/neighborhood-history/murray-hill-street-names/ Thus my use of "rearrange the way" the roads are used, rather than speaking to which are famous and which are not.

I'm defiantly interested in what you're saying, are you just speculating on this or did you have a theory on it. I guess I would need to know what you understand the distance in time / space lines in the verse to mean... If he wasn't referring to the Mitchell brothers as the 3 who lived there, then this is well worth trying to understand better.

decibalnyc wrote:: I'm defiantly interested in what you're saying, are you just speculating on this or did you have a theory on it. I guess I would need to know what you understand the distance in time / space lines in the verse to mean... If he wasn't referring to the Mitchell brothers as the 3 who lived there, then this is well worth trying to understand better. I guess I am just saying that this would be a way to read the lines without needed to understand any sort of obscure things. What else is the proposition for "at a distance in time?" I thought "Farewell" might be a distance in time, because it refers to when you come and go; and "Downer" seemed to refer to where an object is in space. The "three" could be the hall, and none of the lines would then be/need to refer to any other streets.

Look I know...this one in particular drives me insane. I've probably stepped on the thing 10 times by now, just in the last 2 weeks. There are so many dual meanings in everything that at some point you have to say...OK this is what I am going with...then when it turns up an empty hole, I go all the way back to the beginning and it's the same riot all over. I believe that the "proud tall fifth" is not a tree...and sadly I can't base that theory off of anything but gut instinct from walking the park 100 times. Even with the GPR this is turning out to be extremely difficult. It seems everything is working against us. Most of the lower park is landfill so the GPR is picking up every brick, bottle, rock, and root that is in the ground. The hill is eroding towards the lake, everything is sliding northeast, major reconstruction has been done to one of the ravines, and the statue, and the other ravines are slowly being overgrown. If this casque was put at the foot of a large tree, I fear the worst. I will hopefully know more tomorrow after a trip to the historical society.

I see what you're getting at...reading it more like Chicago, giving you a general location of a place in the city to start. Instead of taking the first half as step by step instructions, maybe he was just getting us to find the corner of Kenwood and LMD and then the specific trail starts. Kind of like where M and B set in stone and to congress R is known...he was just getting you to the area on Roosevelt where the bowman is which leads you to Lincoln...there is no specific step by step. Good observation.

decibalnyc wrote:: ... at some point you have to say...OK this is what I am going with...then when it turns up an empty hole, I go all the way back to the beginning and it's the same riot all over. Exactly. I am likely going on a dig tomorrow It's what I've been all about for the past year or so. I don't understand why more locals don't try it. The thorough report of a failure is as valuable as a find.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: The thorough report of a failure is as valuable as a find. Being an expert at failure I can attest to that.

Uncovered a photo today with AP showing a fence that used to surround the lighthouse. If you walk down there today, without the fence, it would make more sense to pass the lighthouse on it's southern side and enter the south lions bridge ravine. When the fence was up, this would not make a whole lot of sense as you would have to walk over both bridges and follow the woodline all the way to Whal Ave. then walk back to the entrance to the south ravine. With the fence up, it makes more sense to pass it on the north side, and enter the north ravine. This can finally be put to rest, it was intended for us to take the north ravine because of the fence.

Interesting! Can you scan the photo for us?

this was in 1968, i think it has a copyright hxxp://content.mpl.org/cdm/singleitem/c ... 4591/rec/2 hxxp://content.mpl.org/cdm/search/searc ... mode/exact adding another,date unknown, rail fence in back of LH hxxp://content.mpl.org/cdm/singleitem/c ... 4590/rec/3 hxxp://content.mpl.org/cdm/search/searc ... mode/exact

erexere wrote:: I don't like the Grand Stair count. The numeric label on stair #56 being placed on the tread because the riser is obscured by a glove is acceptable, but the fact that the very first step is counted as a tread for which there is no immediate riser causes concern. According to the careful count of risers convention the "main" of the Grand Stair is only 91 steps, unless there's a very good explanation for counting the tread that comes before the first riser and then the second and third treads as belonging to three stair steps when its really two risers = two stair steps. I'm not trying to accuse anyone of intentional misinformation. I think this is just a case of human error. The Grand Stair may not be the 92-steps ascended. cw0909...Great find of that photo of the chain link fence around the lighthouse! Looking at photos at the Milwaukee County Historic Society today... There were photos of the Grand Staircase (from the sidewalk) that showed that there were indeed THREE steps at the beginning of the stairway ever since it was created in 1907. This is a comparison of what the staircase looks like today and what it looked like in 1990. This is what the stairway looked like when BP ascended the "92 steps". (I know I should have had a copy made of one of the earlier photos in which those first three steps could easily be seen, but there were so many photos to look at, and this one was the closest to 1982.) The concrete pavement leading up to the steps has since been updated with a layer of bricks which actually were laid over the concrete, bringing the brick layer up to the level of the first step tread. I hope this lays to rest the question of the number of steps being 92. AP

Aye. If true, we have two options. Lake Park and Plankinkton's atrium.

erexere wrote:: Aye. If true, we have two options. Lake Park and Plankinkton's atrium. I've carefully looked at a historic postcard photo of the Grand Staircase and it shows the previous landing of steps before the remodel to be 6 stair steps and the next to be 3. If those steps on the approach are to be ignored, then the total count of ascending steps from top to bottom of the main section is indeed 92 and not 91 as I previously argued. 92 steps is correct.

Unknown: 92 steps is correct. I'm shocked... On a more serious note, and looking at the first picture, I keep asking myself why Preiss didn't bury the Milwaukee casque here on the Grand Staircase. It has a lot of similarities to the Cultural Garden in Cleveland. To answer my own question, this is where I would have put the casque, all other things being equal. But he didn't, and knowing that should make the rest of the puzzle (this one and the rest) a little bit easier to understand when we find ourselves questioning a final treasure ground. It doesn't have to make sense to us, and our present day sensibilities. It just had to make sense to Preiss, and the constraints that he was under at the time.

Another thing we know is the South ravine (and possibly the north) was re-done sometime between 1984 and now. We are currently searching for more photo's of this area from the 80's. The ravine's used to extend a lot further east than they do now by way of a dirt incline. Now the south ravine has steps where the incline used to be. Also the large circular stone by the Ravine Rd. bridge that some compare to the millstone was in fact there since before 1980. I don't know if this is supposed to be represented by the millstone in the rebus or not, but it was there in 1980.

Hi all, Relative newcomer here, but I've tried to do my homework before posting - including reading the entire threads for the Milwaukee image and verse, and countless hours poring over maps, websites, etc. No full theory yet, but I do have some thoughts on the existing theories, and some partial-theory ideas of my own. Warning - it's a long post. First, as plausible as the Lake Park theory sounds, I don't think it's as certain as most of you do. I know that's kind of heretical around here. But a big part of my skepticism is because there's pretty much nothing in the image that pictorially matches Lake Park (other than a golf motif suggesting the golf course, and some pretty sketchy tree ideas). The theory is almost *all* about the verse, and the verse is so cryptic that it could be used to "confirm" a variety of theories. Let me come back to the lack of image references. But even in the verse, nothing is a true slam dunk for Lake Park. - Yes, 92 steps seems plausible for grand Staircase, especially since the next line includes the word grand - Yes, I see why Cast in Copper could reference LMD - And yes, the North Point lighthouse is a reasonable explanation for the "compass" But I still have problems with even these. First, there are so few places in flat Milwaukee that could possible have 92 stairs. The grand staircase is almost the only place you could consider - if you truly needed to ascend 92 stairs. And to me, that makes it too obvious. I don't like the idea that one could jump into the middle of the verse without having to decipher *any* other clues (other than the ones that identify Milwaukee in the first place - rebus and City Hall pictures). It's too easy for a local to say "I know - the Grand Staircase! Let me skip the whole first part of the verse, and ignore the image too." That's not how any of these puzzles work. I don't like the Plankington Arcade idea, because it's clearly not ascending. But I like the "kind" of idea that it is: not too obscure, but not too obvious either. Knowing that Milwaukee is not rife with long staircases, my first thought was to look for a staircase that was built in 1892 (or 1792, I guess). That kind of clue would make sense for BP to use. You'd know it was right only when you saw it (e.g. a cornerstone with a date). No, I don't have any 1892 stairs in mind, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone finds some. My point is that if we weren't all hung up on "92 has to be the Grand Staircase", then you'd probably never think Step on Nature *must* be "Oak Leaf Trail". And you'd never think "Pass the Compass" *must* be the lighthouse. Also, "After climbing the Grand 200" seems a weak match for the grand staircase. For one thing, why is that line necessary (you've already been told to ascend the steps - why say it a second time)? And for another, that would be really odd wording - if the grand 200 meant the two C's that are at the landing, you're not really climbing *them*. If the verse said something like "After you *pass* the grand 200" that would be more plausible, as it could mean start ascending the 92 steps, but once you pass the double C (partway up) then *leave* the staircase to look for the next clue. But that's not what it says. (If you think the double C refers to the curving, ascending upper parts of the grand staircase, I think that's even less likely as they only even resemble C's from an aerial view, and you're only going to climb one of them anyway.) Anyway, basically, what I see in the existing Lake Park theory is "The Grand Staircase must be it," followed by a whole bunch of (reasonable, but flawed) confirmation bias. Now let's get back to the image. The group has identified two possible starting points for this verse - Mitchell Hall, and the Wisconsin Club (formerly Mitchell Mansion). Both reasonable 3-story buildings, etc. But one of them has an exact visual match, and the other has nothing of the sort! Atomicleprechaun posted this link a while ago: https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 5709486983 That's not just a "if you squint, it almost maybe matches" kind of a thing. It's a "Eureka! I guess any theory that starts at Mitchell Hall must be regarded as wrong," kind of a thing. I'm not sure why Atomic's find hasn't made everyone shift their energy in this direction! Similarly, look at all the other visual clues that have been identified by others in the image thread: - The Juggler resembling the bronze on the Juneau statue: hxxp://www.december.com/places/mke/album/photojpk4.html - The hair matching the Laureate at the Performance Arts Center: The hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laureate_(Lipton ) - The obvious City Hall. Those are all close to the city center, and pretty much on a straight line path from the Wisconsin Club. What does that mean? I don't know. But what I do know, is that the most definite visual clues are all relatively near each other, and not at all near Lake Park. And that while it's certainly possible to walk to Lake Park from this area, I can't imagine that's the walk BP wanted us to take. OK, so enough of the critique of the Lake Park theory. So where do I think we *should* look? See next post. -Len

Hi, In my last post, I described why I think we should be looking elsewhere besides Lake Park. Where? I don't know. But I do have some partial ideas I wanted to share. First, again, I think we need to start at the Wisconsin Club - a 3-story building, formerly the Mitchell Mansion, lived in by Mitchell, his wife, and one son (three people) and, most important, visually confirmed by this image: https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 5709486983 Interestingly, to see this View (as in View the three stories...), you need to be on W. Wells St. (back of the building). And as others suggested "Wells" certainly evokes a thought of time and space (Time Machine), and also of the War of the Worlds (beating of the world)? I don't think those are the *only* meanings intended by BP for those lines. But I think it helps get you onto Wells and gets you oriented. Perhaps "walk the beating of the world" means walk on Wells. Which way? "A distance in time" and references to "three" suggest East. That's not a slam dunk, but makes sense in that all of the famous landmarks of Milwaukee are East, including the visual references in the image (City Hall, Laureate, Juneau Statue) are in that direction. But how far do I go? Here's where I'm clearly speculating based on several "loose" clues that seem to all point in the same direction. But I think it's plausible: I think you're supposed to climb the stairs in City Hall! Why? Obviously you can't dig up there, and have to come down again. But my theory is that you need to climb City Hall in order to see the next clue! Here's why I think this makes sense: 1) City Hall is in the image. 2) More important, the *entrance* to City Hall is in the image! https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5096/5452 ... 003b_z.jpg 3) City Hall's address is *200* East Wells, and it certainly is "grand" - tallest habitable building in the US at one point! 4) Atomicleprechaun said in July (quoting someone else) that after 92 stairs in City Hall, you get to a landing with a window that looks west (i.e. allows you to *View* the three stories of Mitchell). If we can confirm or deny that, that would be a big test for this theory. 5) View is a term often implying that you "have a view", i.e. from a mountain or top of a building. 6) Walk the beating of the world? View at a distance *in time*? You're literally inside of a beating clock tower. 7) A distance in space? You're suspended in space, high above the city. 8. Cast in copper? Although this might *also* be a Lincoln reference, it is undoubtedly a reference to the Solomon Juneau bell at the top of City Hall. This article is really interesting - describes how the bell was one of the largest, heaviest copper bells ever cast, and it was a huge source of pride for the city. hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=CYMoAQ ... er&f=false In short, my theory is that the whole first half of the verse, as well as most of the image, is designed to get you up to the window of City Hall, facing west (in the direction of Viewing the Wisconsin Club). Again, I think the the most important thing we can do to test this theory is count the steps to get to a landing/window. We should also see if there is anything either on the floor by the window, or on the ground outside the building that could be meant by "Step on Nature" or "Cast in Copper" or "Step on Nature Cast In Copper" (like a picture of a tree embossed into a copper seal on the sidewalk, for example). BTW, I have no ideas about From Woman, With Harpsichord - perhaps there was something in the lobby once, or outside so that "at a distance in space" could mean above it. OK, so we're up there? What are we looking for? Here's where my theory peters out a bit. However, I do have one idea: Check out the raised concrete platform on the waterfront at the center of this page: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Milwa ... c19c92c636 Doesn't it kind of resemble the millstone? A grey circle with a square in the center - roughly in the right proportion. It's right across the river - to the west of City Hall, and would probably be visible from the window in a similar perspective as the image. Here's a ground-level view (with clock tower in the backgrond, no less): hxxp://www.bethsahagian.com/images/Beth ... Grylli.jpg That tile looks fairly new, but is it? Was there something similar there in 1982? I have no idea. Could be a red herring, or could be important. Wonder how we can find out. Although I think this idea is suspect, here's one thing I like about it: It puts you in one of the *very* few places in Milwaukee where you can actually walk 100 paces (200 steps) southeast without walking through a building. Almost no streets run southeast/northwest except right here. And few city parks are large enough to allow 200 steps. And 100 paces is so long, it's difficult to be precise in direction unless a terrain feature like a river or road is keeping you aligned. And here, staying west would have a clear meaning, as in "stay on the west bank of the river". Does the Riverwalk go "*over* rock and soil"? Did it, before the 1990s Riverwalk rennovations? Note that the verse doesn't say *on* rock and soil - you could be on a raised walkway *over* it. I don't like the fact that this area is relatively park-free - a *major* hurdle for this part of the theory. But was there a dirt area somewhere along the west bank of the river before the Riverwalk construction? Could "pass the compass" mean pass Mason St. (compass being the Freemason logo)? Lots of questions here, but wanted to throw the idea out there for comments. Finally, I have some thoughts on the *end* of the verse, that I haven't been able to bridge into this theory about the beginning. My next post will be about the end of the verse. -Len

My last two posts described my discomfort with the Lake Park theories, and a partial alternative theory that requires climbing the stairs of the City Hall tower, and Viewing the Mitchell Mansion at a distance. This post contains my thoughts about the end-game (with no real solution proposed): 1) Foot of the culvert such an odd phrase. A culvert is a very specific word. And why do you have to get into a precise position (at its foot, whatever that means) at such an early point in the verse? I'm not sure I'd be confident I was in the right spot unless I saw a carving of a foot or something, next to a drain pipe. The word foot has to mean something... 2) I really don't think the treasure is at the foot of a tree, for all the reasons others have pointed out - difficult to dig, dangerous for the tree, and transience of an individual tree (BP's fears of the hunt lasting only a month notwithstanding). Besides, I think fifth probably doesn't literally mean the fifth tree. It's too literal. I don't buy Exere's 1/5 star general (because no other clues point to Kos. Park). But I think something *like* that idea makes sense. I.e. a statue of someone who's the fifth one of something (I'll come back to this). 3) When is a birch not a birch? This *could* be literally a tree, of course. But I have a different idea: A birch is a pioneer species with white skin. Sound like anyone we know? Someone whose statue has a bronze image that looks like the juggler's pose? Someone who the bell was named after? Solomon Juneau was a pioneer, often described as the first white settler of Milwaukee. He was also the first mayor of Milwaukee. I think that somehow, Juneau might be our first young birch! But I can't figure out how. You can't really walk 100 paces southeast from somewhere that makes sense from the clues, and get to the Juneau statue in Juneau Park. And *from* that statue, I'm not sure what "pass three, staying west would mean". But maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe there's another plaque or small statue of Juneau somewhere along the Riverwalk. 4) When I went down this mental path, my first thought was: If Juneau was the first mayor, then we should be looking for the 5th (especially if the 5th mayor was tall and/or proud). The 5th mayor was George H. Walker - one of the 3 founders of Milwaukee. But I can't seem to find a statue or marker that could be what we're looking for. It's too bad, because *Walk*er would fit so well with the verse's multiple references to "walk" and "foot", and with the image's use of a *walk*ing stick. I really want the solution to somehow be at George Walker's foot. It would be such an elegant solution. But can't find a place where that would make sense. Was there once a statue somewhere? Any other Walker-related signs in Juneau Park or near the Riverwalk? 5) An alternative to Juneau being the first young birch, is Charles Milwaukee Sivyer - the first white child born in Milwaukee. After all, it's the first *young* birch. The birthplace is actually pretty close to the Riverfront and City Hall at N. Water and E. Mason Streets. And more or less Southeast. But where do you go from there? There are no parks close by. Or culverts. Again, just an idea to follow up on or discard. -Len

Len, I like how you treat the material and offer some insightful considerations. With respect to endgame thoughts, do you you think the last line of the verse "the treasure waits" could be a hint about "waiting" like person serving a table at a restaurant or fancy mansion? It might also play on the line about a "fifth", since that could be something like a common bottle size for alcohol. For example, Jeeves pours you a bourbon from a fifth. This seems vague and even rabbit-hole-ish, but I want to consider the implication of a "glass", something which can be filled by a waiter, or alternatively something made from or including a lens, like a spyglass or telescope, or a pair of spectacles. Some scenic viewpoints offer coin operated observation equipment. I recall using one at the Empire State Building. Maybe there was something like this somewhere in 1982 Milwaukee. What if the majority of the clues of this hunt involve following a long distance viewer as it moves across the city from the Wisconsin Club to (or from) City Hall and on to some culvert and then to the treasure spot?

Len, The Juneau Statue was my first theory. The 5th you're looking for is that he was a Leo...the 5th sign of the zodiac. I like the way you think on this. IMO this is a theory that is worth consideration and I will think on this. 2 things that comes to mind in this area of the city for the woman with harpsichord line are the PAC which is right across the street from city hall, and I also believe there is a statue in Cathedral Square Park of a woman holding a harpsichord, and that park is not too far from Juneau. If you feel the casque is in Juneau Park, I can give you some specifics where it isn't as I've probed that area a bit. Also there is a statue of Leif Ericson in Juneau Park...it's in a more secluded location. If this theory holds up, it could prove to show a pattern with Statues and these riddles, same as NOLA and Chi and Cleveland. One thing to consider, as Siskel pointed out...the verse should take you right to the casque. Let me put some of these theories to the test, as I am only minutes from all of these locations right now. Keep in mind I am a big proponent of the Lake Park solution but I have the same reservations as you do...a lack of visual evidence. This is a good theory. Let's put it to the test!

I am downtown today, it's quite rainy...so I'm not going to walk the mile up the road to the pabst mansion, but I can tell you this...as I stepped outside my building on Milwaukee and Wells, I noticed the same logo on the parking structure across the street. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0411857 ... e0!6m1!1e1 This logo is also visible on the door of the Pabst theater from Wells st. only. So I think you might be on to something. We will have to see if this parking structure was around in the 1980's. I will try to get up to city hall and take a photo through that window.

Interestingly enough the bell tower in city hall is 353 feet and there are two 3's and one 5 mentioned in the verse...LOL

Three threes.

Something else to look at...if you take the riverwalk from wells to Mason St you would be walking southeast below the bridge. You would arrive at that circular dock at the end of Mason st. that could represent the millstone. If you take Mason St all the way down towards the lake, you hit Juneau Park, almost at the statue. Still checking on the verse match up and I am going to walk to city hall and try to snap a picture now.

erexere wrote:: Three threes. You're right, it was only a funny coincidence.

OK... Here is what I found... Link to photo's https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k1bvvlv6nykf ... 0Fuda?dl=0 First off there is a big circular stone right in front of the door to city hall. If you ascend 92 steps at city hall, it leaves you facing west, but not on a landing...you are in the middle of the staircase. You are however facing a window that gives you a nice view of the giant harp on top of the Pabst theater which also has the neck logo on the door.. Here is a better view of the harp and if you pan down you will see the logo on the door. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0409185 ... rtz3DQ!2e0 This may be the answer to our Harpsichord line...there is also a second harp on the building itself, and the Pabst is connected to the Milwaukee Rep theater. As you walk down Wells st. you see the same pattern from the back of the Pabst Mansion on the BMO bank building which used to be a Marshal and Isley bank, and in the 80's I believe it was called the Marine Bank. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0410713 ... ejnWyg!2e0 Walk another 2 blocks down wells and there is the parking structure which has a date stamp of 1966 on the corner of it, same pattern... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0411778 ... vDhOog!2e0 Now we have the problem of the Compass, and the Bridge. Like I stated you can access "under the bridge" on the riverwalk, but this would be taking you away from the 2 visual confirmations further down Wells st. and you would go West from city hall and take the riverwalk to Mason st. If we can find a "Compass" somewhere along Milwaukee St. south (where the logo on the parking structure turns and starts to run N/S sending you south on Milwaukee) this path may lead us to the next thing...but all of this feels better than lake park because of the visual clues and I like the harp on the Pabst theater.

My only thoughts for "Step on Nature Cast in Copper" is the PAC which has a fountain in front of the concert pavillion which is a park-ish area kiddy corner to the north end of City Hall. The dark structure to the left of city hall on the image could represent the fountain at the Marcus Center for the Performing Arts.

Also the Arrow on the forehead could be a visual for Red Arrow Park...but I think JJP may have made the arrow red if that was the case. hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... waukee.jpg If you look across the st. from red arrow park you will see the fountain at the PAC https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0426863 ... !5s2011-10

I found something in the image....if you turn this image of the neck a certain way, it looks like a building.... https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qg3n8ycyqv0xgj/neck.png?dl=0 Keep your eyes out for this building or tower of a building with an arch in the middle at the bottom.

Here is the building in the neck, it's right across from Cathedrial Square Park off of Wells and Jackson St https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0415073 ... qvc2ew!2e0

My building is less than a block from Cathedral Square Park...I am going to take a walk over there right now.

decibalnyc wrote:: Len, The Juneau Statue was my first theory. The 5th you're looking for is that he was a Leo...the 5th sign of the zodiac. decibalnyc wrote:: 2 things that comes to mind in this area of the city for the woman with harpsichord line are the PAC which is right across the street from city hall, and I also believe there is a statue in Cathedral Square Park of a woman holding a harpsichord, and that park is not too far from Juneau. decibalnyc wrote:: If you feel the casque is in Juneau Park, I can give you some specifics where it isn't as I've probed that area a bit. Also there is a statue of Leif Ericson in Juneau Park...it's in a more secluded location. If this theory holds up, it could prove to show a pattern with Statues and these riddles, same as NOLA and Chi and Cleveland. decibalnyc wrote:: One thing to consider, as Siskel pointed out...the verse should take you right to the casque. Let me put some of these theories to the test, as I am only minutes from all of these locations right now. Keep in mind I am a big proponent of the Lake Park solution but I have the same reservations as you do...a lack of visual evidence. This is a good theory. Let's put it to the test! Yeah, I saw that. I think that's possible (esp. since proud=pride=lion=Leo). But if Juneau is the fifth, then what's the first? An actual birch? Possible. But either way, I have a hard time getting to the Juneau statue by walking southeast. Following Wells to the park puts you south of the statue, not northwest. From the thread, it seems that the sculpture is this one: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_ ... (sculpture ), which is not harpsichord-related. I think if there were a harpsichord statue anywhere in Milwaukee, someone on this board would have found it by now. The only clue I found was this: hxxp://www.pabstmansion.com/history/his ... llery.aspx See the picture on the bottom-right of the gallery on that page. A painting called the Interrupted Lesson, showing a woman who is passing out(?) while playing a harpsichord (i.e. silently?) The painting was part of the Pabst collection, and was on display at one point at the Empire Cafe on Grand Ave. But I left that out of my theory, because it felt like false confirmation to me. It's not on Wells. And seems too obscure to be relevant. Yup, possible. I considered an Ericson connection, but it didn't seem to fit. But who knows... Cool! Like I said, I think testing the City Hall view part of the theory would be great, because I think it's really plausible. But the rest (the millstone, for example) is much more speculative. Also, there's been so much construction in the 90s on the Riverwalk that landmarks and/or casque sites could easily be gone.

OK more info.... In Cathedral Square Park we have a statue dedicated to immigrant mothers, notice the shawl and the shape it makes on the left side, compared to the image...very similar. https://www.dropbox.com/s/hh4pk8fte7fo9 ... 1.jpg?dl=0 Also there is a stage setup in the park...it's been setup for over 10 years for "Jazz in the park" UNDERNEATH THE STAGE...is a round fountain with a square in the middle just like the Millstone https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ikw9gb5s2i3x ... n.jpg?dl=0 Then we go to St. Johns, the image of the tower in the neck...notice the 2 eagles on the building...could be a match for the eagle in the lower left corner of the image. https://www.dropbox.com/s/99x8vvf0vjg2y ... s.jpg?dl=0 Also there is a relief near the Eagle which would be facing the correct way on the image of a man holding a key that looks similar to the key in the image. This photo is hard to see, the second link is a google image of it, it's on the right. https://www.dropbox.com/s/wul0gdagmze15 ... 2.jpg?dl=0 https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+C ... cf2c985d0b Well what are your thoughts on all of this so far?

As far as following the verse...this is where I am stumped, and where I never could put any certainty on a downtown location. If we assume the 92 steps and the Grand 200 are referring to City Hall...we must then find a "compass" to pass and a foot of a culvert to reach, AND a bridge! Maybe it's a red herring, but I am somewhat convinced the neck image represents St. Johns Cathedral. The problem is, so far, there is nothing that matches the verse enough for me to agree with it. The only bridges you can access the underneath of would be the freeway spurs, and the riverwalk...but even on the riverwalk you don't actually walk under the bridges. The Lincoln Memorial Bridge at the end of Mason St. is accessible underneath, but walking 100 paces southeast from there put's you in the new Caltrava art museum. So here we have just the opposite of Lake Park where the verse will take you to an exact spot with no visual confirmations. Downtown we have a ton of visual confirmations, but the verse doesn't quite match up to the visual clues.

I caught the idea of climbing to City Hall's 92nd step and looking west out the window, but I didnt see the explanation for grand 200 to go with this approach.

City Hall is 200 wells St. and it's the oldest "grandest" building in all of downtown. That would be my best application.

Oh, so are you taking the word 'grand' as meaning magnificent? Ah, caught your edit. Okay, thanks. Carry on.

If we are going to look in this downtown location...why don't we start with using the monument in Red Arrow Park as the compass...it has a N-S-E-W with an arrow pointing up, usually the red arrow on the compass points north. hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... waukee.jpg Now, someone find a bridge you can walk under that was there in 1981...only a few things close to this in the area...and all of them are skywalks between buildings.

decibalnyc wrote:: The revolving restaurant on the top of the Hyatt on 3rd and Kilbourn is called "The Compass" I don't know if it was the same in 1981, but it was defiantly there in 1981. First, thanks for the sleuthing today! Kinda cool that I can post a theory on a forum, and 8 hours later, a total stranger is on-site checking it out. Can you post a reference to this? The Hyatt website doesn't mention anything called the Compass. I did find this article, though, hxxp://onmilwaukee.com/dining/articles/ ... osing.html describing the closing of the restaurant in 2009. It was called Polaris from 1980-2009 (which could be a compass reference of course). And the shape is intriguing, because the rotating restaurant in aerial view is a circle with a square in the center: hxxp://milwaukee.hyatt.com/en/hotel/our ... tures.html However, it's 20 stories up, so the shape wouldn't be visible from the 92-step window, and the square is way out of proportion with the mllstone. So it's intriguing, but I doubt it's right. Overall, I think your pictures are a mixed bag. 1) The fact that there's a west-facing window at the 92nd step inside of City Hall is great. I think even this doesn't "prove" that these are the right stairs, but in my mind, it makes these stairs at least as likely as the Grand Staircase. 2) I was hoping that the view from that window would make the next clue obvious - like if you could see a compass, or culvert, or some other visual confirmer. But if anything, the view is less helpful than I thought. In particular, the window is too low to see that raised platform on the Riverwalk that I thought could have been the millstone. 3) I really am not seeing the resemblance of St. John to the "building" in the neck. To me, it's not even close to polaroid-perfect. And if we were really meant to see a detail as small as the key, it would be more obvious once we saw it. E.g. pointing the same direction as in the image, which it's not. Personally, I doubt St. John is a clue. 4) On the other hand, the stone under the stage at Cathedral Park is quite interesting. I don't like that it's east of City Hall (not visible from the window). But could be a location/park confirmer. The picture you sent isn't conclusive - can't see the square in the middle, and honestly, it looks different from the image (bowed outside edge, non-flush top), but seems worth considering anyway. Is there a picture online pre-stage? 5) For the Red Arrow, it looks differently shaped than the arrow on the woman's head (which I'd never noticed BTW). So I'm skeptical. But is there really a N-S-E-W somewhere on this monument? Where? Can you send a picture that shows this?? That would be quite interesting I think. I still think some downtown Wells-centric location (Juneau Park, Red Arrow, Marquette, or Cathedral) seems plausible given all the evidence in this area. But no definitive idea of which, or where, or what the second half of the verse means (even if the first half is interpreted as I proposed, which is not certain at all). BTW, one idea I played with is whether "pass the compass" means pass a the circle-drawing tool across the map. Taking the range and bearing from Wisconsin Club to City Hall, then passing the compass that distance again brings you tantalizingly close to the Juneau Monument. But it's really past it (too far east to get to it by walking Southeast, and no bridges or culverts in that area. Thanks again for the on-the-ground legwork! -Len

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+C ... cf2c985d0b Fountain Also the match isn't to St. John, it's to the spire of St Johns Cathedral https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0413281 ... zgOphA!2e0 and don't forget about the eagles on the building, and the eagle in the bottom left of the image

decibalnyc wrote:: https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Cathedral+of+St.+John+the+Evangelist/@43.0417223,-87.9048686,131m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x8805190634632837:0xf095dacf2c985d0b Fountain Also the match isn't to St. John, it's to the spire of St Johns Cathedral https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0413281 ... zgOphA!2e0 and don't forget about the eagles on the building, and the eagle in the bottom left of the image Yeah, I knew what you meant - the building itself. I see what you're seeing in the image, and see how you can construe it to be the cathedral tower. But I just don't think it's that great of a match. In the image, your "building" starts to narrow below the top of the arch, and it narrows in a rounded arc. Whereas in the real building, the side walls continue vertically well above the arch before the building gets narrower all at once at the next level. And the eagle doesn't look that much like the vague bird-head shape in the image. I just saw your picture of the Cathedral Square fountain, and while I kind of doubt it's our millstone (the perimeter is faceted, not round, the top is not flat, and the square in the center is not depressed or flush), I think it's a more plausible match than the cathedral. Doesn't mean I'm right. But to me, an image confirmer needs to be a pretty exact match - like City Hall itself, or like the Storrow Memorial in Boston, where details line up *exactly* with the depiction in the image. I'm applying the same level of skepticism to my own ideas, of course, which is why I think the raised platform on the Riverwalk is probably not right either, even though it's an even better match to the millstone than the Cathedral Park fountain is... -Len

Also don't forget the biggest clues are what look like trees.

View the three stories of Mitchell See the Wisconsin Club from... As you walk the beating of the world Wells St. At a distance in time How long? From three who lived there ??? At a distance in space Is this an open space or an enclosed space? From woman, with harpsichord The symbolic heart shape, is it possibly a reference to woman? Chamber music? Silently playing A band, but not the musical kind? A ring? Step on nature ??? Cast in copper Make a wish with a penny Ascend the 92 steps Plankington's atrium rotunda has 4 flights of 23 stairs encircling a wishing well. After climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits. An allusion to a waiter? A glass...a tumbler? atrium (n.) 1570s, from Latin atrium "central court or main room of an ancient Roman house, room which contains the hearth," sometimes said (on authority of Varro, "De Lingua Latina") to be an Etruscan word, but perhaps from PIE *ater- "fire," on notion of "place where smoke from the hearth escapes" (through a hole in the roof). Anatomical sense of "either of the upper cavities of the heart" first recorded 1870. Meaning "skylit central court in a public building" first attested 1967.

lengrano wrote:: I just saw your picture of the Cathedral Square fountain, and while I kind of doubt it's our millstone (the perimeter is faceted, not round, the top is not flat, and the square in the center is not depressed or flush), I think it's a more plausible match than the cathedral. Doesn't mean I'm right. But to me, an image confirmer needs to be a pretty exact match - like City Hall itself, or like the Storrow Memorial in Boston, where details line up *exactly* with the depiction in the image. I'm applying the same level of skepticism to my own ideas, of course, which is why I think the raised platform on the Riverwalk is probably not right either, even though it's an even better match to the millstone than the Cathedral Park fountain is... -Len My only thought is that IF city hall is where we are supposed to ascend the 92 steps, and IF we are to start on 9th and Wells walking east towards the Pabst...we need to consider 2 things. 1. He is then turning us around to go west...the building in front, looking to the north west was not there in 1981....so we need to start looking for a "compass" that could be seen from that 5th floor window, somewhere on Kilbourn, or State St. as far west as Pier Marquette Park. 2. We interpreted the verse wrong, either it's not the right location, or maybe you go all the way to the landing on the 5th floor and look east, or there are 92 steps somewhere else off of wells street. If we are following the pattern on the chest down Wells St. the only place you would naturally turn would be on Milwaukee St. where the pattern wraps around the parking garage just past city hall. This would take you south of Cathedral Square Park, and you would miss it, but you would be pointing towards a bridge. This theory just doesn't fit the verse. If the casque is in a downtown location, we are missing something. You would need to see the compass from the top of the stairs I think for this to work.

decibalnyc wrote:: My only thought is that IF city hall is where we are supposed to ascend the 92 steps, and IF we are to start on 9th and Wells walking east towards the Pabst...we need to consider 2 things. 1. He is then turning us around to go west...the building in front, looking to the north west was not there in 1981....so we need to start looking for a "compass" that could be seen from that 5th floor window, somewhere on Kilbourn, or State St. as far west as Pier Marquette Park. decibalnyc wrote:: 2. We interpreted the verse wrong, either it's not the right location, or maybe you go all the way to the landing on the 5th floor and look east, or there are 92 steps somewhere else off of wells street. decibalnyc wrote:: If we are following the pattern on the chest down Wells St. the only place you would naturally turn would be on Milwaukee St. where the pattern wraps around the parking garage just past city hall. This would take you south of Cathedral Square Park, and you would miss it, but you would be pointing towards a bridge. This theory just doesn't fit the verse. If the casque is in a downtown location, we are missing something. You would need to see the compass from the top of the stairs I think for this to work. Ah, that's great info. But it's really hard to know what existed back then. I just read, for example, that the gazebo in Pere Marquette Park was built only in 1994. Was the round base under it there earlier? Was there a square in the middle of it. Who knows... Right. Certainly possible that the whole climb-City-Hall idea is wrong. We're not going to find another literal set of 92 ascending stairs in this area. But like I said, the 92 could mean 1892 or something... Another possibility: Maybe the verse is telling us to Climb the 92 steps (with the window simply confirming that it's the right set of steps), but then telling us to continue to climb the rest of the 200 Grand (i.e. to the top of the bell tower). Maybe that's why there are two lines about ascending/climbing. Maybe if we go all the way up, we'll see something we couldn't see from the first window (including possibly that raised platform I pointed out on the west Riverwalk, that looks like the millstone. If there are really a total of 200 stairs to the top (as Atomic suggested), then that could be further confirmation that we're supposed to be all the way up top. I'm wondering if the pattern on the parking garage is just a coincidence - that BP used the pattern because it was on the Wisc. Club, not even realizing that it also appears on some random parking garage. Anyway, I agree we're missing something. And it could be a something that's not even there anymore. What also bothers me about this whole theory is "Pass the compass". If it's a compass that you see from the window, then how do you know *how* you're supposed to pass it? On which side? The only way it would make sense is if you passed it while heading west from City Hall. I.e. not someplace on the riverwalk where you can pass it going N or S. And the culvert needs to be obvious immediately after you "pass the compass" since there are no other clues in between. Still stumped... Is it possible that when you enter City Hall from Wells and climb up and back down again, that you naturally leave through a different exit (where the compass would be near that exit)? That could be an alternative reason for why he's making us climb the stairs only to come down again. This seems unlikely, but thought I'd throw it out there... -Len

If you entered City Hall on Wells (the furthest point south), you would walk to the middle of the west side of the building to go up the stairs, if you exited at the bottom of the stairs you would be leaving facing west on Water St, and if you could leave by the north side of the building you would be facing Red Arrow Park on Kilbourn...you would probably see the arrow. I guess I will have to go to the top and see what I see from all directions. That design is not a general design, it's on the Pabst Theater, the bank across from city hall, the parking structure, and the Wisconsin club (the Mansion) all facing Wells. Why is it on the image...it could only confirm 4 buildings (that we know) 1 being the possible starting point. This is what is making me put the effort into this initially....because that design is on the image and the former Mitchell Mansion.

I don't know if this is a coincidence or not. Please let me know your thoughts. At one time I felt this was a Lake Park confirmation. This is a Lawn Bowling segment from 2005...look above the lawn bowlers head and you'll see a tree. I matched this tree with the arrow in the forehead. Like I said, it could be a coincidence, and that tree may or may not have been there in 1981, but I thought it was a pretty close match. https://www.dropbox.com/s/zbaxym0hsvtmj ... g.jpg?dl=0

decibalnyc wrote:: I don't know if this is a coincidence or not. Please let me know your thoughts. At one time I felt this was a Lake Park confirmation. This is a Lawn Bowling segment from 2005...look above the lawn bowlers head and you'll see a tree. I matched this tree with the arrow in the forehead. Like I said, it could be a coincidence, and that tree may or may not have been there in 1981, but I thought it was a pretty close match. https://www.dropbox.com/s/zbaxym0hsvtmj ... g.jpg?dl=0 Heh. I have to admit that tree-top really is the same shape as the arrow on the forehead. But that pretty much has to be no more than a coincidence. The tree wouldn't even look like that in the winter of the same year the picture was taken, or from any other angle even on the day the picture was take, must less look the same 25 years earlier.

It's the tallest tree in the park, or one of...The tree also appears to be a birch tree, that's why it caught my attention, and because of the shape. That tree would have to be 32 years old in this picture for it to be of any consequence, that could be true...just hard to tell.

I was thinking about various words in the verse and how they might cooperate between the lines. beating...a heart beats paces...pacemakers are a medical device that keeps the heart in rhythm hearth...drop the -h and you have 'heart' If Plankington is involved, then the atrium with 92 stair rotunda is connectable to the heart theme since in heart anatomy atriums and ventricles are its chambers. This reminds me of that old cartoon from the 70's (60's?) used in school to demonstrate how the heart and circulartory system works. It uses an analogy of cars (blood cells) driving around the city (blood stream). Edit: 1957! Hemo the Magnificent.

Are there any constellations that we could attribute to a woman playing a harp?

Also here is an interesting article on City Hall. Apparently there is a spiral staircase that leads you up to the bell tower and observation deck. hxxp://onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/ci ... ?viewall=1 and here is the bell at the top and some interesting photo's shot from up there. https://www.flickr.com/photos/wrokic/4881694661/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wrokic/48 ... otostream/ This would be the view east...prominent in the view would have been the fountain at Cathedral Sq. Park where the stage is setup, and St. John's cathedral. I don't know if this means anything or how many steps are in that spiral staircase to the bell tower, but I just wanted to post what I find.

Unknown: That's not just a "if you squint, it almost maybe matches" kind of a thing. It's a "Eureka! I guess any theory that starts at Mitchell Hall must be regarded as wrong," kind of a thing. I'm not sure why Atomic's find hasn't made everyone shift their energy in this direction! Unknown: It's too easy for a local to say "I know - the Grand Staircase! Let me skip the whole first part of the verse, and ignore the image too." That's not how any of these puzzles work. That's exactly how I feel about the Grand Staircase. We have proven (time and time again) that it has exactly 92 steps (ascend THE 92 steps), the verse leads logically to it and from it (IMO), one of the most prominent things in the image can be found (several times over) within 50 feet of the top, and we can be certain that what we are seeing today is almost exactly (landscaping notwithstanding) what Preiss saw in 1981. For me, it just doesn't get any more "Eureka" than that. Too obvious? Maybe. Not the way the puzzles work? Well, if memory serves, Sir Egbert just needed the columns, and half the verse to dig up the Cleveland casque. Methinks this was exactly the way the puzzles were designed to work, and the main reason that Preiss thought they would be solved quickly. The difficulty we are having is a direct result of time and change, and to a certain extent, the unfortunate passing of the author (and before that, his unwillingness to provide the same guidance that he showed in the early years of the hunt).

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: That's exactly how I feel about the Grand Staircase. We have proven (time and time again) that it has exactly 92 steps (ascend THE 92 steps), the verse leads logically to it and from it (IMO), one of the most prominent things in the image can be found (several times over) within 50 feet of the top... Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Too obvious? Maybe. Not the way the puzzles work? Well, if memory serves, Sir Egbert just needed the columns, and half the verse to dig up the Cleveland casque. Methinks this was exactly the way the puzzles were designed to work, and the main reason that Preiss thought they would be solved quickly. The difficulty we are having is a direct result of time and change, and to a certain extent, the unfortunate passing of the author (and before that, his unwillingness to provide the same guidance that he showed in the early years of the hunt). Can you remind me what it is from the image that can be found within 50 feet of the top of the GS? Reading through the threads, it seemed like the only matches were "notional" (like putter representing golf course). What was it that actually visually matches (as if a picture had been taken?) Let me know if I've missed something... Again, I really don't think the Lake Park theory is ridiculous. Just not nearly as certain as others think it is. One more example of why I seriously question it: I think you're one of the folks who assumes that "cast in copper" is LMD. (Which, by the way, I agree is very logical. I think there's a good chance "cast in copper" means LMD even if Lake Park turns out to be wrong, since LMD runs a very long way). But if you're standing on LMD, then how do you justify discounting the bottom portion of the stairs that comes before you start counting the 92? I know the staircase has changed over the years. But all the old pictures folks have posted have shown some non-zero number of stairs *between* LMD and the start of the 92. E.g. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 709486983/ If you were supposed to be arriving at the bottom of the stairs from the grass, or some place other than LMD, then I could see some justification for ignoring that bottom set. But if you interpret the verse as arriving at the stairs from LMD, I can't see BP citing a number of stairs that omits the bottom set. Why wouldn't he have said "ascend the 98 stairs" or however many there are including the bottom set? Honestly, I'm not as well versed as you on the Cleveland solution. But even there, I believe it was really the image that pinpointed a location. No line(s) of the verse would have gotten them to the right park alone. In the Boston puzzle, there's only one part of the verse that could be interpreted in *any* way at all without understanding the rest of the puzzle: "Near those Who pass the coliseum With metal walls". This part of the verse can be interpreted as "near a road that passes Fenway Park," without knowing anything else about the puzzle. But that doesn't pinpoint a location or even a park nearly well enough to be a good clue on its own. To me, the bottom line is that images can pinpoint specific locations with must more certainty than lines of the verse, because image elements can be matched exactly (like Milwaukee City Hall, or the Spearman and Bowman statue, or the Storrow Memorial in Boston, etc.) So let me ask you this: You know City Hall is in the image. But of course that could just be a city confirmer, not a specific area confirmer. But what about the other elements of the image? The brickwork on the Mitchell Mansion (Wisc. Club)? The Laureate statue in the hair? The bronze pattern and juggler pose from the Juneau statue? In order to believe a Lake Park theory, you either need to believe that a) those visual references don't actually point to those things, or b) that they do, but that for some reason it doesn't matter. Not sure which of those two views you hold, but to be logically consistent, you have to hold one of those two. Assuming it's b), I'm wondering what explanation you might offer for why BP/JJP would include so many images that are all in the same area (along the same street even), even though the treasure is someplace else entirely - around 3 miles away? Because that's the part that doesn't make sense to me.

Len, I'll reply to your post, but I would like to first point out that my intent is not to bash your theory and promote the one I favor. There is a lot of creativity there, and the forum could certainly use more of that (but IMO, not on this solve). More importantly, I'm not really the one you need to convince. In order to achieve success, someone has to be willing to dig in a certain spot that they, or people like us identify. Those are the people that are in the best position to comment on the relative merits of any given theory, since in most cases, they are able to follow leads directly. Having said that... The picture that you posted of the Grand Staircase is pretty dated. The pictures of the Grand Staircase that Animal Painter posted on page 68 are more representative of what Preiss would have seen in 1981, and that staircase has exactly 92 risers. And if we count the one covered by the brick walkway, the staircase still has exactly 92 steps today. It's a verifiable fact that no one who is on this forum and is in Milwaukee questions, even a little bit. Doesn't make it right, but it puts a significant burden of proof on any better theory for this line. Moving on. At the top of the stairs, we encounter our only real decision point in the whole verse, and that is, which direction do we go next? Right on the bridge over Ravine Road, straight past the lawn bowling pitches, or left, to the parking lot. The last one seems the least likely, but as it turns out, is the only one that takes us past the golf course and all those red balls in groups of two (I'm pretty sure someone has confirmed that the tee markers in Lake Park used to be red). It's not notional at all. In fact, it couldn't get any more exact. We also have the similarities between the lion's and the juggler's face, but since by that point the light house is in view, I'm not sure we need this match to advance the theory. We have the red balls right where we need them to be if we are following the verse. On the other hand, we have a hand, or two. But the left hands don't match at all, and there are enough differences in the right hands (recognizing that there are only so many ways that you can draw an open-palmed hand) that if Palencar was supposed to replicate the treasure ground confirmer exactly, then he missed by more than a little bit here IMO, and for no good reason that I can see. It doesn't have the same precision that the rendering of City Hall does, which as you suggest, could just be a city confirmer and doesn't need to be as exact as it is, and yet, Palencar got this almost exactly right. The Laureate is a reasonable match (again, not picture perfect, but close) but that's on Kilbourn, not on Wells. As for the collar, that's pretty exact, but the Mitchell Mansion isn't the only place in Milwaukee where you could find this type of cinder block, is it? Is it possible that this ubiquitous building material was also found on some building between Mitchell Hall and the park, or even Mitchell Hall itself back in the day? So given a choice, I'd have to say that I'm not as convinced as you seem to be that these are clear-cut image matches that need to be reconciled. The bottom line is that the Cleveland solve shows us that with one small piece of the image, and a few lines of verse, we have all the information we need to dig up a casque. I believe the same is true for the Milwaukee solve (in reverse; lots of verse and a little bit of image, assuming we have the right starting place). The notable exception is that I believe the treasure ground locaters are gone (multi-trunked tree and letter from the country on the PTF), and therein lies the only remaining challenge to fully resolving the puzzle and digging up the casque; finding historic evidence of where these locators once stood. So that's what I choose to focus on, and what I am encouraging the diggers in Milwaukee to focus on as well.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: The picture that you posted of the Grand Staircase is pretty dated. The pictures of the Grand Staircase that Animal Painter posted on page 68 are more representative of what Preiss would have seen in 1981, and that staircase has exactly 92 risers. And if we count the one covered by the brick walkway, the staircase still has exactly 92 steps today. It's a verifiable fact that no one who is on this forum and is in Milwaukee questions, even a little bit. Doesn't make it right, but it puts a significant burden of proof on any better theory for this line. Erpobdelliforme wrote:: On the other hand, we have a hand, or two. But the left hands don't match at all, and there are enough differences in the right hands (recognizing that there are only so many ways that you can draw an open-palmed hand) that if Palencar was supposed to replicate the treasure ground confirmer exactly, then he missed by more than a little bit here IMO, and for no good reason that I can see. It doesn't have the same precision that the rendering of City Hall does, which as you suggest, could just be a city confirmer and doesn't need to be as exact as it is, and yet, Palencar got this almost exactly right. The Laureate is a reasonable match (again, not picture perfect, but close) but that's on Kilbourn, not on Wells. As for the collar, that's pretty exact, but the Mitchell Mansion isn't the only place in Milwaukee where you could find this type of cinder block, is it? Is it possible that this ubiquitous building material was also found on some building between Mitchell Hall and the park, or even Mitchell Hall itself back in the day? So given a choice, I'd have to say that I'm not as convinced as you seem to be that these are clear-cut image matches that need to be reconciled. Renovator, I think you are misinterpreting Animal Painter's post on page 68. His post was meant to put to rest the question of whether the first group of steps that everyone is counting as part of the GS consists of two or three steps. He confirmed that it was 3, so therefore the total number of steps from that point on is 92, not 91. Great. No objection. But the fact remains that there is (and was in 1981) a small flight of steps *between* LMD and Animal Painter's "step 1" of 92. Like everyone else, he was ignoring that set, and calling them "not part of the GS", because there is a flat landing that looks to be about 20-30 feet long between that first set and his step 1. You can clearly see in Animal Painter's photos too that the initial set was there back then (you can't tell how *many* steps are in that set from the photo, but you can definitely see that that initial set was there, and had a railing). That first set *now* has 4 steps, but it stands to reason it would have had 3 back then before the layer of brick was laid over the walkway between that set and Animal Painter's step 1. In other words, it used to be 3, then 3, then 89 more. And now it's 4, then 2, then 89 more. Either way, it's 95 from LMD to the top, and I don't think Animal Painter (or anyone else who's been there) disagrees with this. The only disagreement is whether that initial set should be considered part of the GS or not. What I am saying is that whether you call that first set "part of the GS", or just call them "steps leading to the start of the GS", those steps are being skipped in Animal Painter's count (and everyone else's) because someone on this board decided long ago that those steps are not "part of the GS", and guessed (incorrectly according to Animal Painter's pix) that that lower set may not have been there in 1981. Yet the fact remains that they stand (and stood then) between LMD and the top of the GS. I think it's very unlikely that BP would have said "ascend the 92 steps" when you're standing on LMD, with the assumption that you're going to skip over the 3-4 steps right in front of you before you start your count. Since the entire theory is based on the idea that there are 92 steps between LMD and the top, this seems like a pretty big inconsistency to ignore. As far as the golf tee markers being the visual confirmer, thanks for the clarification. I agree that's certainly possible, esp. with the putter also in the image (although a round, red ball is such a simple shape that it's hard to know for sure). The nearest tee box appears to be about 350 feet from the top of the GS, not 50, (and not visible from the top of the GS, due to the building) when you have to make your decision about what direction to go at the top of the GS. But like you said, if you can see the lighthouse "compass", and follow that interpretation of the verse, your point is that the balls are just a confirmer, not a signpost you need to have seen to decide. OK, I understand your perspective now. I do agree that the collar pattern is common and appears lots of places. (Although no one has found a match so far that's in Lake Park, or anywhere outside of the downtown area). I also agree that the Laureate is not a perfect match (to me it's about 80% likelihood, not 100%). But as for the Juneau statue, it's not just the open hand. It's the position of the hand *and* the posture of the person looking to the right *and* the background texture (which is really not very generic). I really do put that match at close to 100%. As to why not make the open hand match perfectly, I think it was to hide another clue in the palm (the image that people think is a bell or a hoof). JJP needed to alter the hand position slightly to have it both resemble the Juneau statue *and* hide the desired shape in the palm. I still think that whether or not the "City Hall tower is the 92 stairs" part of the theory is correct, the casque is more likely to have been buried somewhere closer to downtown than up in Lake Park.

News flash: It seems that "Step on Nature" cannot possibly refer to Oak Leaf Trail! According to the link below, the city-wide network of bike trails was called "'76 Bike Tour" or "Milwaukee 76 Bike Trail" from 1976-1996! Before 1976 it was called something like the Milwaukee 64 trail, as it was 64 miles long. It was renamed to the "76 Bike Tour" in honor of the 1976 bicentennial. And apparently, it wasn't renamed to Oak Leaf Trail until 20 years later. hxxp://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29432339.html That gets me to thinking...one of my earlier theories was that "the grand 200" might have somehow referred to the bicentennial, which was a grand celebration that was still fresh in everyone's minds in 1981. I spent some time last month searching for things like bicentennial park, or bicentennial road, etc., with no success (other than a park that's not anywhere near anything that seemed relevant). But now knowing that Oak Leaf Trail (which goes right by both Lake Park *and* Juneau Park) used to be called '76 Trail, I wonder whether the idea that *it* could be the Grand 200 could have any merit. Is there a part of the trail that one might climb?

Unknown: Since the entire theory is based on the idea that there are 92 steps between LMD and the top, this seems like a pretty big inconsistency to ignore. Unknown: As far as the golf tee markers being the visual confirmer, thanks for the clarification. I agree that's certainly possible, esp. with the putter also in the image (although a round, red ball is such a simple shape that it's hard to know for sure). The nearest tee box appears to be about 350 feet from the top of the GS, not 50, (and not visible from the top of the GS, due to the building) when you have to make your decision about what direction to go at the top of the GS. But like you said, if you can see the lighthouse "compass", and follow that interpretation of the verse, your point is that the balls are just a confirmer, not a signpost you need to have seen to decide. Unknown: JJP needed to alter the hand position slightly to have it both resemble the Juneau statue *and* hide the desired shape in the palm. Unknown: I still think that whether or not the "City Hall tower is the 92 stairs" part of the theory is correct, the casque is more likely to have been buried somewhere closer to downtown than up in Lake Park. Not exactly, that's just your premise. What I believe is the "staircase", which is clearly defined and exists today exactly as it was designed and built by Olmstead, consists of exactly 92 steps. IOW, "the 92 steps" is a synonym for "the Grand Staircase", and not a literal interpretation of how to get from LMD to the pavilion. Also, the area between the staircase and LMD has undergone several changes over the years, as your picture, and the one's posted by Animal Painter clearly show, which may explain why Preiss didn't include those in his count. To me, it's not as inconsistent as you are suggesting. But clearly you are uncomfortable with it, which is fine. Just keep in mind that this particular theory has been rehashed over and over for almost 10 years, and as near as I can tell, no one has come up with anything even remotely better. Not just shape, but color and quantity as well. I play golf, so this one seems obvious to me. I suppose if you weren't familiar with the conventions of the game, it might seem like more of a stretch, but a field of these would be pretty hard to ignore. And unless you went on the bridge over Ravine Road, you would see them soon enough once you got past the Pavilion, regardless of whether you went left or right. There is an awful lot of white space in the image, so he really didn't need to do anything of the sort. In both Chicago and Cleveland, the assumption is that what we are calling the iconic image is rendered exactly as it would have appeared in the polaroid, and that Palencar would have been instructed to render it as faithfully as possible since it was essential to the solve. To create, if you will, a final "aha" moment before putting a shovel into the ground. A tree with a letter on it would have resulted in such a moment, IMO. A statue with a tortured connection to "proud tall fifth", not so much. Clearly. But on this, and for now, we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I like this idea an awful lot. Thinking of grand as "something celebrated" works well for the Bicentennial. Maybe we're taking the word 'climbing' in the wrong way when thinking it has to do with our legs working up a hill or stairs. This could be something like a flag if being hoisted or raised is the same effect as having climbed. There was a special Bicentennial flag. Is there some particular place in Milwaukee where the Bicentennial flag was raised or did such an event cause some lasting impression that we'd have recognized in 1982? The Bicentennial dollar has a prominent Liberty Bell on it. Perhaps the shape in the palm of the juggler's hand is a hint for a coin, as such would rest in a palm, and leads us to the think bell/coin = Bicentennial dollar = 1976...? Or perhaps the word "climbing" has to do with military rank? hxxp://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Public_Law_94-479 In 1976, Congress passed into law that President George Washington would be posthumously awarded the rank of General of the Armies aka a 5-star General. I wonder if the idea of ascending 92 steps is to identify a particular set of stairs and then follow that with the idea of George Washington's achievement of rank in the Bicentennial. So, climb some stairs, consider climbing of rank, specifically that of General, and then resolve the next set of clues with a compass, a tool that may be used to find direction or distance.

Unknown: News flash: It seems that "Step on Nature" cannot possibly refer to Oak Leaf Trail! Unknown: one of my earlier theories was that "the grand 200" might have somehow referred to the bicentennial, which was a grand celebration that was still fresh in everyone's minds in 1981. But it can refer to Lake Park itself, especially if this sign, or something similar was in place in 1981 ( hxxp://tinyurl.com/qjtyd2x ). It's near the corner of East Kenwood and LMD, right where the verse tells us to "step on nature". There is some uncertainty as to whether we were supposed to walk along the paths in the park to East Ravine Road, or follow LMD all the way around, but either way, you eventually end up at the base of the staircase. Unless... Now this I like. Perhaps if we reverse these two lines so that we are instructed to "ascend the 92 steps" after "climbing the grand 200", it could support the theory that we are supposed to follow the Bicentennial Trail through the park and end up on East Ravine Drive, just north of the staircase. Guess what else is there, just as you come out of the woods? Here's a hint, courtesy of 421 ( hxxp://tinyurl.com/q7lxz8a ). Look familiar?

This Pogues song pops into my head each time someone mentions ravines, Navigator - The Pogues: hxxp://youtu.be/Fh0F41AvO_Q

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: But it can refer to Lake Park itself, especially if this sign, or something similar was in place in 1981 ( hxxp://tinyurl.com/qjtyd2x ). It's near the corner of East Kenwood and LMD, right where the verse tells us to "step on nature". There is some uncertainty as to whether we were supposed to walk along the paths in the park to East Ravine Road, or follow LMD all the way around, but either way, you eventually end up at the base of the staircase. Unless... Now this I like. Perhaps if we reverse these two lines so that we are instructed to "ascend the 92 steps" after "climbing the grand 200", it could support the theory that we are supposed to follow the Bicentennial Trail through the park and end up on East Ravine Drive, just north of the staircase. Guess what else is there, just as you come out of the woods? Here's a hint, courtesy of 421 ( hxxp://tinyurl.com/q7lxz8a ). Look familiar? Good stuff! I think you are to follow Kenwood to Lincoln Memorial until you hit the park area. That's where you would get on the Riverfront trail (is there only one path to follow on the Riverfront trail? I'm still looking for the trail layout...) and then climb the 92 stairs. It's all there, it all lines up. It's just piecing together old images of the trees there at the roadside. You guys have got this! The Milwaukee '76 Trail hxxp://www.trails.com/tcatalog_trail.as ... BGM049-039

I don't mean to dampen anyone's day. but I have to chime in for a second on a few issues... The Lake Park Friends were not formed until 1994 so that sign about nature wouldn't be there. hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/aboutus.shtml I don't think the Grand 200 refers to the Oak Leaf Trail, I think it's City Hall at this point. New information I received yesterday (but un-verified) says there is a 92 step spiral staircase leading up to the bell tower of 200 Wells St. or City Hall. I need to check this out. The reason for the image on Kilbourn St. might be the fact that we have to be Northwest of the treasure grounds before entering as we have to walk southeast 250 feet to get there. Mainly I wanted to discuss this issue of the pattern on the neck. I need someone to show me how this is not significant. When you find a pattern of something from the image, ON a 3 story building built by the Mitchell family...and NOT on Mitchell Hall, or any other 3 stories of Mitchell.. HOW CAN U SAY THAT IS COINCIDENCE? That pattern is specific to architecture I agree, but it is NOT a common pattern, and the only info I could find it that it is a swiss style grid pattern...it can be seen on this gate at Harvard. hxxp://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2 ... by-design/ I have looked ALL OVER for this pattern, in hopes I could find several examples, ruling it out as a good clue. I have only found 6 examples it in 2 areas in the city (5 in one area and a straggler to the north)...so far and here they are 1 On the back of Mitchell Mansion seen from Wells St. https://www.dropbox.com/s/tytindkcfljt3 ... k.jpg?dl=0 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0402394 ... hFWRnQ!2e0 2 On the Pabst Theater Doors on Wells St. (not an exact match, but close enough for me) hxxp://www.december.com/places/mke/imag ... tdoors.jpg 3 Inverted on the M&I bank parking structure across the st. from city hall main entrance https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0410713 ... ejnWyg!2e0 4 The parking structure on Milwaukee and Wells https://www.google.com/maps/@43.041159, ... Hv0ikg!2e0 5 A parking structure on 7th and Highland https://www.google.com/maps/@43.044363, ... qclPMg!2e0 6. A small wall on Capitol Drive (this is the closest area to Lake Park that I found it while looking for it on and around Kenwood) https://www.google.com/maps/@43.089219, ... !5s2011-10 This is obviously a certain type of architecture, but I don't think JJP or BP put it there by accident...why go into all that detail to show a pattern if it doesn't mean something. I found this pattern all over downtown, I didn't find it at Mitchell Hall or anywhere by UWM or lake park except that small little wall on Capitol Drive. All I am saying is I feel this pattern is significant to SOMETHING, and it's not just everywhere in the city. It's not as common as other brickwork here, it's a somewhat unique pattern. Maybe some of you can do some virtual searching for this pattern. It would be nice to know where it could be found in Milwaukee. It's one of the few distinct patterns we can look for. Also I wanted to discuss City Hall for a second. All of the images have a "prominent building" in them. For Chicago it was not disguised, right out in the open....Cleveland it was disguised. I have read some solves where the water tower is involved in the solution for Chicago, and others where it is not...maybe Robert (tenbythirteen) could comment on if that was in fact the starting point for them. City Hall would certainly be a city indicator...and since we have no solid evidence for coordinates we must assume the rebus code is what we get for a location finder. City Hall may or may not be part of the puzzle...but it's in the image, it's address is 200, and it supposedly has a 92 step spiral staircase to the observation deck, and then MORE stairs to the bell tower. It certainly would be considered "grand" even a midst all the grand buildings in downtown it stands out as the most ornate and it towers over downtown...like a big grey giant I have a partial theory that takes us from 9th and wells and puts us in a park downtown...I can account for the Bridge, Culvert, Compass, 92 Steps, Grand 200, and Woman with Harpsichord. I have at least 2 unmistakable solid visual confirmations (neck pattern and Juneau Bell), and a handful of similarities which I can't be 100% on, but they are intriguing. I am going to keep working this theory, I hope others would join in and at least look for some things that match the image...ANYWHERE...either downtown OR by lake park. The only way to solve this is to keep exploring options till something fits.

I was wondering just now what is so important about viewing the 3 stories of Mitchell. As we view it, is there some special significance other than it's location in Milwaukee that informs us of our course towards the casque location and/or more importantly how it's hidden? I never really gave the Wisconsin Club more than a glance. Now as I look at it, I noticed it reminded me of the old building on my University of Oregon campus: Deady Hall. Both have Italianate style and a prominent belvedere. Again I think of the Bell and Flower used in Cleveland to describe the nearby road boundary to the general area of the casque: Belflower Rd. Perhaps the bell shape in the juggler's palm is a clue to draw focus from a belvedere? Bel-: beautiful + -Vedere: to view. Later in the verse we see the use of 'wonderstone', perhaps that's more in the theme of beauty, or looking at something for the reason that it is attractive with it's marblelike variation and polished surface. I wonder if the Italian aspect of the Wisconsin Club's architecture is of some importance in detecting the final location?

If it were German Architecture, maybe...seems like the book tells us that Milwaukee is representative of Germany (no stretch there) and the verse also references it...I think if anything I would be looking for a public garden that has something to do with Germany...I wouldn't guess it to be a Beer Garden (I know that's what you were thinking Erexere you beer-o ) I see a pattern here with public gardens...the area in Grant where the 1st one was found is part of the Art Institute's public garden, Cleveland was a garden, and I believe there is strong evidence for SF to be in the Japanese gardens....maybe this is why Preiss thought it would be easy. Talking more on this on the Methodology forum. I went to the Mitchell Gardens (domes) yesterday and even though there are some AMAZING clues there...it doesn't pan out as I can't find a bridge that would work. Right now the 92 step spiral staircase at city hall seems to be a main point of interest, but nothing else has developed, planning a trip to the observation deck to verify the stair count and see what I can see from up there that might lead me to another clue....Also City Hall is still skipping a few steps, but the staircase leading up to the observation deck has peaked my interest so to speak as it's one of the only public places that has such stairs. No idea as to why he would have us go up there unless the next clue was waiting there to see from the observation deck or the bell tower. When you get to the Bell Tower you would see the match for the bell in the jugglers hand, but I don't think he would send us up there just to see that. If city hall is in fact part of the equation, then there must be something up there to see.

The question has arisen about whether or not the Oak Leaf Trail existed by that name to fulfill the part of the verse that says "step on nature". It is not necessary for it to have had any sign for it to make sense. Verse 8 says: View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world You can view Mitchell Hall as you walk along the south side of Kenwood Blvd At a distance in time From three who lived there At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing You pass the three streets named for famous people who lived in Milwaukee, and also Marietta St. ( representing the silent harpsichord playing woman) Step on nature Cast in copper So you reach Lake Dr...the boundary of Lake Park. Instead of walking South or North on Lake Dr., you ENTER THE PARK by crossing Lake Dr and walking on Park property so you are "stepping on nature". This is where Kenwood Blvd becomes Lincoln Memorial Drive..."cast in copper" I won't finish the verse, but you can see that the rest of the trek is not far...

I also concur that Step on nature, doesn't have to be the Oak Leaf Trail...it simply means (probably) step on or cross some grass or as AP says, enter the park. The fact that it wasn't the Oak Leaf Trail, doesn't mean anything...it's still Nature.

I prefer to think of 'step on nature' as some kind of landing, like a stage or a raised field, like this area outside the registrar's office at U of O, hxxp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... gon%29.jpg . (this isn't to suggest Eugene, Oregon as a location, I'm just using it as an example)

As a matter of fact...if you look, the Oak leaf trail could have been reached by either going east OR WEST on Kenwood, so taking it out of the equation actually does solve something in this case.

decibalnyc wrote:: I don't think the Grand 200 refers to the Oak Leaf Trail, I think it's City Hall at this point. New information I received yesterday (but un-verified) says there is a 92 step spiral staircase leading up to the bell tower of 200 Wells St. or City Hall. I need to check this out. decibalnyc wrote:: Mainly I wanted to discuss this issue of the pattern on the neck. I need someone to show me how this is not significant. When you find a pattern of something from the image, ON a 3 story building built by the Mitchell family...and NOT on Mitchell Hall, or any other 3 stories of Mitchell.. HOW CAN U SAY THAT IS COINCIDENCE? decibalnyc wrote:: I have a partial theory that takes us from 9th and wells and puts us in a park downtown...I can account for the Bridge, Culvert, Compass, 92 Steps, Grand 200, and Woman with Harpsichord. I have at least 2 unmistakable solid visual confirmations (neck pattern and Juneau Bell), and a handful of similarities which I can't be 100% on, but they are intriguing. Thanks again for the boots-on-the-ground effort! Let us know the spiral stair count, but also what the stair count is to even get to that landing where the spiral stairs start. One of the early posts on this forum said it was 200. If so, that number seems significant once again. I agree that it's hard to imagine why we should be up there unless we had to be in order to see a further clue. This photo shows that from the top, you *can* see that raised platform that I suggested could be the millstone. That object is prominent in your field of view when facing west. But I don't love it. It doesn't look that much like the millstone. And we don't know if it was there in 1981. And it doesn't have compass markings on it (at least not now). And while I think I can maybe make out the Wisc. club in the distance, it's certainly not a great view of it. https://www.flickr.com/photos/wrokic/48 ... otostream/ I'm glad I'm not the only one shouting this! To be fair, though, I think that the pattern on the Pabst door is not at all the same. Similar, but different enough that I think it's unrelated. And the inverted version on the bank parking structure doesn't seem relevant to me either. So I think you're down to 4 instances of it, incl. Wisc Club. The parking structure has the exact pattern, but I wonder if that's just a coincidence. BP wouldn't have scoured all of Milwaukee just to make sure the Wisc Club was the *only* place the pattern existed. I think he put it in the image because it confirmed the Wisc Club vs. other potential "Mitchell" places. I don't think we can know for sure whether the fact that other otherwise unremarkable buildings have the pattern is relevant or not. Can't wait for you to share it! BTW, earlier you posted that the Red Arrow has NSEW compass markers. Wondering if you can post a picture of what you meant. On the question of Step on Nature: I really doubt it just means step on a grassy / dirt area (although it's certainly possible). I'd be looking for something one step less obvious - like a sign that says nature. Or even a sign that says "signature" (a word that has the word nature in it). But maybe I'm just too biased by the fact that the Boston puzzle used "Face the Water" to mean face a carving that said "Watertown". Also, the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is that Cast in Copper is a Lincoln Memorial reference in addition to being the bell reference. Doesn't mean I think it's Lake Park as LMD runs all the way downtown. And doesn't even mean LMD, as it could also mean Lincoln Memorial Bridge. I don't see a culvert there. But maybe decibal sees something I don't see on Google. One last thing: I know it's been looked at before, but North Point Park really does look like the millstone *and* is a reasonable "compass" reference: https://www.google.com/maps/place/North ... 6318d6e2e4 I can't see how that could tie in with any of the verse, it's not near Wells St., etc. So it seems like a red herring. But thought I'd throw it out there, while still focusing mainly on downtown-related solutions.

Len, When dealing with the verse only, there are many things to look for in the city...Compass, Bridge, Culvert, etc... if you find something like this...try and place a visual from the image. One thing I would be on the lookout for, either by Lake Park, or anywhere else in the city, would be that eagle in the bottom left corner. This I feel is the = to the Bowman in Chicago. If we can find that eagle, or bird of some sort it would help.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: ... end up on East Ravine Drive, just north of the staircase. Guess what else is there, just as you come out of the woods? Here's a hint, courtesy of 421 ( hxxp://tinyurl.com/q7lxz8a ). Look familiar? I've never been a fan of the lighthouse theory, mainly because it's too far away from the top of the Grand Staircase. Preiss has been leading us step-by-step all the way from Mitchell Hall on the UWM campus, and now he leaves out the bit about "turn south and walk all the way to the lighthouse"? I don't buy it. If Preiss really wanted us to climb the 92 steps and then walk to the lighthouse, I think he would have given that move at least a line of its own. (i.e. "After climbing the grand 200 / Take giant steps to the giant pole" or something like that.) The fact that he simply says "After climbing the grand 200 / Pass the compass" suggests to me that the compass was something small and incidental, right near the top of the steps. Maybe it was a sundial. Maybe it was a monument to the Masons. Who knows? It's probably gone now. But if we were to "Pass the compass and reach / The foot of the culvert / Below the bridge," then the logical bridge to look at would be the one that's right there at the top of the stairs: the bridge over Ravine Road. That bridge has several powerful ties to Image 10 and Verse 8. For starters, it's the bridge that has those two big circles, just like the two balls the juggler is holding. That's a really unusual, distinctive design. And the bridge also has a culvert - a REAL culvert, not just a ravine - on the northwest side. And if you "reach / The foot of the culvert / Below the bridge," you will be on the Locust Street Ravine Trail, which ties in with another aspect of Image 10: the cicada nymph. (And that cicada is definitely hidden in the image for a reason. I'll never buy into any solution that doesn't explain the cicada.) So if we "Pass the compass and reach / The foot of the culvert / Below the bridge / Walk 100 paces / Southeast over rock and soil / To the first young birch" then we are walking down the Locust Street Ravine Trail along Ravine Road. And there are definitely trees there (although I can't do a tree ID from the images on Google Street View). And if "staying west" means that we don't cross Lincoln Drive, then we reach our "proud, tall fifth" at the base of Ravine Road. All of which is to say, I think we should take a very, very close look at the spot Renovator was pointing out a few days ago: Yeah, that does look familiar. And there are only two big trees there. It would be great if someone could get us good, clear photos of the leaves and trunks of each one. I can identify the tree species if I see the leaves. And who knows? Maybe there's a faint scar on one of the trees from where someone scratched a letter into the bark 30 years ago. But I would say that the combination of the bridge, the culvert, the two big circles, the locust trail, and the thing that looks like a millstone on the ground all come together very nicely to point us to that exact spot on the ground. The treasure waits?

Unknown: So if we "Pass the compass and reach / The foot of the culvert / Below the bridge / Walk 100 paces / Southeast over rock and soil / To the first young birch" then we are walking down the Locust Street Ravine Trail along Ravine Road. And there are definitely trees there (although I can't do a tree ID from the images on Google Street View). And if "staying west" means that we don't cross Lincoln Drive, then we reach our "proud, tall fifth" at the base of Ravine Road. All of which is to say, I think we should take a very, very close look at the spot Renovator was pointing out a few days ago: In all fairness, I might have pointed it out again, but it was 421 who first brought my attention to it. Credit where credit is due. And I think decibal liked this theory a bit as well. The problem I have with it is we pass this exact spot on our way to the Grand Staircase from LMD. Preiss uses 8 lines of the verse to describe what is essentially one big, well described, but unnecessary circle. On the other hand, he does almost the exact same thing in Chicago, so that alone may not be dispositive. The compass would have been on or very near the Pavillion. It's the only thing between the top of the staircase and the bridge. This route takes the golf course out of play, but as many have pointed out, the red balls could represent the circles on the ERB. It also takes the lion bridges out of play as well. I fell the same way about them as Oregonian feels about the cicada. Perhaps this part of the image is just a location confirmer (something that conveys Lake Park) and not necessarily a path confirmer (something that you would expect to find on the path between Point A and Point T). Probably can't hurt to take a closer look at the mature trees at or near the northwest corner of LMD and East Ravine Road.

Oregonian wrote:: I've never been a fan of the lighthouse theory, mainly because it's too far away from the top of the Grand Staircase. Preiss has been leading us step-by-step all the way from Mitchell Hall on the UWM campus, and now he leaves out the bit about "turn south and walk all the way to the lighthouse"? I don't buy it. If Preiss really wanted us to climb the 92 steps and then walk to the lighthouse, I think he would have given that move at least a line of its own. (i.e. "After climbing the grand 200 / Take giant steps to the giant pole" or something like that.) The fact that he simply says "After climbing the grand 200 / Pass the compass" suggests to me that the compass was something small and incidental, right near the top of the steps. Maybe it was a sundial. Maybe it was a monument to the Masons. Who knows? It's probably gone now. But if we were to "Pass the compass and reach / The foot of the culvert / Below the bridge," then the logical bridge to look at would be the one that's right there at the top of the stairs: the bridge over Ravine Road. I was always a fan of the lighthouse as the metaphoric "compass" in the verse. The North Point Lighthouse just screams "compass" to me. I think this is the type of interpretation that BP used in a lot of the verse clues. Something that says something in another way. Simple. With that said, at the other bridge, I DO like that manhole/millstone down at the end of Ravine Rd. I'd say it's definitely worth exploring more. Has anyone probed this area?

Here you go...in 2008 these two trees were still there. Not sure now...Neither is a birch. I did not see any letters on either one. The only birch in the area is on the left...very small...probably not there 30 years ago.

animal painter wrote:: Here you go...in 2008 these two trees were still there. Those two trees on the left are the ones that deserve a closer look. If anyone in Milwaukee feels like taking some pictures, I'd be very interested in seeing shots of the leaves, as well as close-ups around all the trunks. I don't think there's any reason why the tree in question needs to be a birch. Our "proud, tall fifth" could simply be the fifth tree.

Oregonian, At some time after October 2011, the larger tree was removed. It is not there in the 2013 Google map. Here is a Google-map link that shows the leaves. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0687808 ... 6vhVQQ!2e0

Uggh.. Okay, I'll do Tree-ID-By-Google-Street-View. The big tree (closer to the camera in your shot) is Tree-of-Heaven ( Ailanthus altissima ). The city removed it because it's a horrible, invasive species. (You can see lots of smaller ones further up Ravine Road.) But the other tree - the one closer to the cement disk - is a locust, probably Black Locust ( Robinia pseudoacacia ). It's also invasive, but not as bad as Tree-of-Heaven. So. Is the locust still there? Anyone feel like digging around at its southern foot?

What would you consider the "Letter from the country..." in this scenario?

An idea captured me today that if Preiss wanted to focus on burying the casque at the position of a statue's boot or foot, then thinking along the lines of something relating to ballet to fit foot positioning might be a fancy approach. Envelope and Fifth are common terms on ballet. The Juggler with her objects and balls... ...letter. Ball + Letter = Balletter ~ ballet?

I want to fi d a link between the LotJ and this. Dwarves' treasure: purple Amethyst, imperial star of Germany. Milwaukee might be proud of John Neumeier for being a ballet star and founding the Hamburg Ballet company in 1973.. Animal painter, you have any reclection of any Milwaukee performances of the Sugar Plum (purple amythest?) Fairy in the Nutcracker?

Anyone remember my theory of using a compass like a divider or leg-like tool designed for measuring a unit distance and walking over a map to determine a travel time or distance? Doesnt a nutcracker look just like a compass or divider?

erexere wrote:: Anyone remember my theory of using a compass like a divider or leg-like tool designed for measuring a unit distance and walking over a map to determine a travel time or distance? Doesnt a nutcracker look just like a compass or divider? yes, but not the kind of nutcracker involved with the ballet, which looks nothing like a compass

maltedfalcon wrote:: yes, but not the kind of nutcracker involved with the ballet, which looks nothing like a compass Of course...that crazy eyed imperial soldier with the teeth.

Here's the same looking nutcracker our household had in the 70's, compared to a draft compass/divider,

I've been somewhat enthusiastic about adapting a ballet perspective to this puzzle. Remembering the historic Turners of Milwuakee organization as being relevant to a thematic view of "things which turn or tumble" such as the millstone (also stones may be polished by tumbling) or the key (think lock tumblers) and of course the juggler is turning the objects in a circular pattern whilst her head is turned and each object has it's turn as it is caught and released. A compass may turn as it draws a circle. In ballet there are terms which are used to describe different positions such as: first, fifth, grand plie, and after reaching the leg, envelope as in the case when doing a turn. Here's a youtube link that demonstrates envelope: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B63XQ0BEFo I'm seriously thinking "see a letter from the country" is an instruction to look for a leg that is in the envelope position.

Dude.

As I continue to experiment with the idea that the Litany of the Jewels lines for purple amethysts as the Imperial star of Germany, I notice there's a decent number of references to the Imperial Theater or the Imperial School when cross referencing either Petyr Ilych Tchaikovsky or the Nutcracker ballet. I continue to wonder if the LotJ hint is meant to lead us to the topic of some kind of performance ala the "star" of the show. I continue to have the feeling that "imperial" has something to do with units of measurement like distance or time.

I just want to rehash some things about this verse. Being that there are multiple theories about the "Starting Point" if it is even a linear puzzle, and since Siskel and Egbert have told us that the verse will take you directly to the spot, I think we should go over this verse one more time. I just want to break this down to non specific terms and though this might seem redundant, I think it might open up some new thinking. We already have a solid theory put forth and tested by Forest, Pine and AP and others back in 2006 at Lake Park. I also have a downtown suspicion, and others have a Kozy park theory. No one has found anything solid yet. Some very good theories, a set of stairs, a good BP representation of the Compass, and a cottonwood tree which closely matches the image aren't discounted, maybe the dig was off a bit, but I've seen the pictures, that was a LARGE excavation. LP is the most accepted theory, but if we were to re-examine it... Keeping in mind what we know now about methodology, it wouldn't hurt to go over the verse once again. I have a new theory and what I feel might be the key to lock in some kind of starting area for locating the right bridge. This came to me over an August 1980 expo on Milwaukee in National Geographic Magazine. Consider the popularity of Nat Geo magazine in the late 70's and 80's. I suspect BP as well as many other Americans read this article. It was a cover story, a 22 page expose on the city, origins, history, etc... It gave a specific breakdown of the 3 settlements from the early 1800's that eventually formed the city of Milwaukee (at a distance in time from 3 who lived there) Kilbourn, Juneau, and Walker. The article also provides this map. https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3hgraotizg95ie/map.png?dl=0 Reading more, the article also tells of the 3 brewery moguls Pabst, Schlitz, and Miller. I feel this line, as WELL as the line "View the three stories of Mitchell" may only signify Milwaukee, enough for you to match the image with the verse. The Mitchell Gardens (or Domes) as they are known as, was a top tourist attraction through the 70's and 80's with a rich history. View the 3 stories of Mitchell - This seems like it's referencing a starting point, but perhaps it's only to signify Milwaukee - enough for you to match the verse and image. The line "As you walk the beating of the world", seems to signify a street...Wells or Kenwood or maybe something else. I am somewhat convinced that due to the history of the city, the lines "At a distance in time from three who lived there" are a reference to the same information in the Nat Geo article, referring to the founders of the city. If this is narrowing the area down it would be the walkers point / downtown / points east area That leaves us with At a distance in space - From woman - With harpsichord silently playing After this the instructions start to become more direct. So WHAT IF, the above line about the woman is narrowing the area down a little bit more. The best and really the ONLY idea's anyone has had about this line so far are citing a possible painting hanging in the Hotel Wisconsin, and Marietta Robusti as a very obscure reference to Marietta St. near lake park. I thought as the Pabst Theater was known as "The Grand Old Lady" and had a Lire (resembling a harp) on top, it was also a contender. None of these idea's, even my own, seems correct. Does anyone have any thoughts on this line other than what has been discussed previously? It could allude to an area of town, a street, landmark, or anything else. It seems to be the last of the vague clues on this verse, and no one has really had anything solid on it for 10 years. As discussed in the methodology forum, and as many of us agree that the first part of the verse gets you to a starting point, and the last part kind of zero's in on the exact spot...could we apply some thinking to this line, in those regards? I know the area's of the city fairly well since the 80's... AP also has extensive history here. I think we'd be happy to answer any questions about parts of town or landmarks etc... So any idea's about that line?

Also I don't know if this has been brought up, there is a statue in Cathedral Square Park, just off Wells and Jefferson across from the fountain is the Immigrant Mother statue, which bears some resemblance to the image in how the hood angles to the left at the bottom. Ironically this statue was made by Ivan Mestrovic, the same creator of the Spearman and the Bowman in Chicago. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_ ... ulpture%29

I caught that connection in sculptor work, but I couldnt bring myself to bend the verse that far. When I get down to it, Id like to make sense out of each individual piece as a thing selected by that particular Fair Folk for its purpose in representing their appeal for each jewel. In Milwaukee I am concerned mostly with qualities of the amethyst, which is rectangular, purplish, imperial and star. I think the dwarves liked beer, exploration, and militarism. They liked HG Wells story telling. They blended in with the culture brought by the city founders. They admired City Hall from nearby Pabst Theater. They admired the statues of Generals.

And they liked wonderstone...a beautiful mineral when tumble polished.

decibalnyc wrote:: At a distance in space - From woman - With harpsichord silently playing After this the instructions start to become more direct. So WHAT IF, the above line about the woman is narrowing the area down a little bit more. The best and really the ONLY idea's anyone has had about this line so far are citing a possible painting hanging in the Hotel Wisconsin, and Marietta Robusti as a very obscure reference to Marietta St. near lake park. I thought as the Pabst Theater was known as "The Grand Old Lady" and had a Lire (resembling a harp) on top, it was also a contender. None of these idea's, even my own, seems correct. Does anyone have any thoughts on this line other than what has been discussed previously? It could allude to an area of town, a street, landmark, or anything else. It seems to be the last of the vague clues on this verse, and no one has really had anything solid on it for 10 years. So any idea's about that line? I don't think it could be just a name, like Marietta. If it was, then the words "silently playing" become meaningless. I think you actually have to see a women playing a harpsichord. To me, that would be a painting or a sculpture. A painting doesn't hang outside, though, so if it was a painting, it would have to be something that was somewhat permanently placed inside glass or a window. A sculpture seems more likely, but we have gone many years without finding any photo or reference to such a sculpture. Very strange. I have searched on Google many times for a woman with harpsichord, both paintings and sculptures, but I have found nothing showing one in Milwaukee (other than a passing art exhibit).

Egbert wrote:: I have searched on Google many times for a woman with harpsichord, both paintings and sculptures, but I have found nothing showing one in Milwaukee (other than a passing art exhibit). Eg, I have done the same. Also growing up here, and living here for more than half my life, I can't seem to put it together either. This is what keeps leading me to believe we could be in the wrong area. Preiss seems fairly direct with his analogies...Beneath two countries - To Congress R is known - Seven steps up you can hop From the bottom level - etc... so I would have to think "From woman, with harpsichord - Silently playing" must be something visualy apparent. I just can't think of an analogy for that line that makes sense, where as I can see the logic of "As you walk the beating of the world" being a reference to a street. Also the way he uses the word FROM in that line "From Woman," makes me think that you find this Woman, whatever she may be, as you walk "The beating of the world" and then the "Step on nature" would be obvious from there. Also Woman is capitalized, does this mean something? The problem is, even if we start at Mitchell Hall, or The Wisconsin Club, OR The Vieux Monument at the Mitchell Gardens, this Woman never really becomes apparent...it just makes me think that the line about Mitchell might only be to signify a tie to Milwaukee to be able to place it with the image. Lake Park is a fit because of the Grand Staircase and because you can somewhat follow a path from point a to point b, but there are other staircases outdoors, and bridges all over Milwaukee. Also the lines "At a distance in time - From three who lived there" always bothered me as its a reference to the 3 founders of the city. But what is he saying in the line...is it a location? The meeting point of the 3 areas? or what? If he just meant it to reference Milwaukee, why not put it first instead of the line about Mitchell and the beating of the world? I think the key to finding where to start on this, is going to be finding out what and where this "Woman, with Harpsichord" is..

Maybe the woman with harpsichord is a character in some piece of literature and knowing the author or title of the book might help make sense of something.

The reference to: "woman, with harpsichord Silently playing" is no big mystery. When you "view the three stories of Mitchell as you walk the beating of the world", you see Mitchell Hall as you are walking down Kenwood Blvd. " At a distance in time From three who lived there " is just BP's way of referring to streets named for people who actually lived in Milwaukee: Downer, Hackett and Shepard. At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing As BP continued to walk down Kenwood Blvd and passed Marietta Ave., he merely found a way to refer to the name Marietta by doing some research when he got home...coming up with an obscure female renaissance painter The reason BP said "At a distance in space", is because Marietta Robusti never lived in Milwaukee. She lived in Venice. She happened to do a self portrait standing near a harpsichord. (We were not supposed to know this, but could verify it later after finding that we were on the right track in Lake Park.) If BP had referred to "Marietta Alboni", he would have chosen a different descriptor. for a famous Italian contralto opera singer. The woman with harpsichord, was just a way to cover Marietta Ave.

I just want to point out that there is no linear direction to walk east or west on Kenwood Blvd. If the 3 who lived there are to denote streets named after people of Milwaukee instead of the 3 founders, what's to say the many streets to the west like (James) Stowall Ave. (Leonard "Lenny") Farwell Ave. and (Eliphalet) Cramer St. aren't the 3? It could be possible that you need Marietta to know the direction, but since it's right across the street from Lake Park, you wouldn't need 2 lines to denote 3 other streets. Marietta Robusti is not listed as a well known composer or Harpsichordist. I don't think it's a good match...not like "Rhapsodic mans soil" or "Ride the man of Oz" it's not widely known. I think there is something else, as Egbert said, like a bust, or a fountain, or statue...even a relief on a building...something that is a better match than Marietta Ave. Also it seems if he wanted to point out a single street he may have just used a letter like "From M, Step on nature" would have been just as cryptic. Maybe there is something by the Statue at the entrance to lake park to represent "Woman", maybe something around the Golf Course which would make "Silently Playing" seem more logical.

If I were to make a list of things to quibble with about this particular puzzle, the "Marietta" clue wouldn't even be in my top three. Sure it's a lousy clue, but it's between two pretty good clues. And that, to me, is what's important. Not the significance on any one clue, but how it fits into the overall narrative. Now, if the clue in question is the "dig spot" clue, then we have a problem, and that is the problem we should focus on. My two cents.

After a long hiatus, I am back in the game. I haven't even touched the message boards here since the end of summer when grad school started. I wanted to concentrate on school, and not get to caught up in the hunt. That said, since I am on winter break, I got the itch and caught up on the 25+ pages I missed on on verse 8 and Image 10. While I've been gone, it looks like my Wisconsin Club discovery picked up some traction. I am really glad about this as I feel this is one of the most solid leads that anyone on the boards has found yet. A big thanks to lengrano for giving it the bump it needed and building a really solid theory around it. Before I get to all of those pages of posts, I also want to give my friend J_Galt a shout since he has gone location scouting with me a few times now and we have formed somewhat of a team. Also decibalnyc gets a lot of my admiration for a ton of creative problem solving with this puzzle and getting the ball rolling on using GPR in some of the suspected dig sites. Likewise, erexere - keep spinning those wheels, you're our way outside the box thinker and you have certainly inspired a theory or two of mine thus far. Also, if otteriffic is still out their someplace, thanks for driving in from Madison and confirming some of the things I was seeing. Lastly - a big thanks to crashdome for suggesting we all take a look at some older maps at hxxp://county.milwaukee.gov/mclio/geodata/imagery.html . This was a huge help in confirming what things looked like 30 or so years back. All this being said there are new things I have noticed while reviewing all of those posts. I'm not sure that I have a decisive theory, but a bunch of little revelations that might help push this hunt forward. So without further ado; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RANDOM: Here are some old images of a few of the parks in question... maybe they will help someone. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 691162324/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 312727412/ Also, I think these theories/ discoveries by others have merit and dersearve a little more exploration: https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 313767675/ (Woman playing a harpsichord owned by the pabst mansion) The neck image here looks similar to the clock hand to me... https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 126219048/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 312708022/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MY OWN IDEAS (FROM LEAST TO MOST LIKELY): 1. From the intro of the book: A proud tall fifth might refer to the 5 fairy nation to arrive in the new world (from Ireland) - 5 Sidhe, Leprechauns, Fir Darrigs 2. There has been a Grand staircase inside the lobby of the Hilton Garden Inn Milwaukee Downtown since 1886. 3. Young Birch is a Robert Frost Poem – Probably just a coincidence, but since there is a possibility that war of the world’s plays into one of the clues (well's street/beating of the world), I thought I would also mention it in case this puzzle is full of literary references. 4. Something has bugged me for a long time about the 1,3,5 at the end of the verse. This is a clear number sequence like you would have gotten on the ACT… usually you would then have to finish the sequence or figure out how the two sequences were related. This is one way that the birch doesn't have to be an actual tree, if the numbers are the actual important thing. The numbers might alternatively be a code or equation of some kind. 3 3 92 200 100 1 3 5 5. The entrance of Lake Park is refered to as the "Grand Entrance" and looks like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 287812016/ (flowers?) 6. Key – Walking stick – Millstone I have some questions about this... Why is this backwards? Is this a clue to go through the verse in reverse order? Is there a reason the flower is placed in between the key and the Walking stick? Could this be a clue that the image needs to be flipped to make the “map” work? 7. In terms of the pattern on the woman’s neck, I have also seen it at the fire house on KK in bay view. (they aren't their on google street view though, so these might be a newer addition) Likewise there is a similar symbol on the wall of the restaurant across from UWM’s Mitchell hall. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 693869843/ There are also weird people on the roof that may have some significance. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... otostream/ 8. In the figures hairline there is a shape. decibalnyc suggested a while back that the shape might be the Hoan bridge. This got me to thinking that rather than a bird’s eye view - that the edge of the figure might instead actually be a silhouette of the skyline – with the blue denoting which side the water is on (take a look at google maps in satellite mode). This means however that it will need to be “unraveled” in some way to align with a map. Once this is done, the glowing ball shape might produce a location to look in. I was able to get the odd notch in the cape to line up really well in this way with part of the water line and this places the ball very close to the Mitchel park domes. Maybe we are supposed to travel from the Wisconsin club to the domes? I have always thought that there was a map hidden in this image somehow. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 126023318/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 311476171/ Also these views for comparison: https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 313769705/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 126031498/ (notice the smoke stack) https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 311981901/ (maybe the robe line?) 9. Some other Dome ideas. The Mitchell Park Nature Conservatory (the domes) could be another play on words that was used since there are also conservatories for music. In this case, there would be no music, hence the silence. Not sure how the harpsichord or woman plays into this except that the domes are referred to as the three breasted woman. Also, Primrose (and many other flowers) grow at the Mitchel park domes. Also, this is there: https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 311965311/ hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Vieau 10. There is a compass that no one has mentioned on the floor of city hall: https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 126210690/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 287651106/ Likewise, the landing of the grand staircase at the lakefront may have been decorated in a compass like fashion at one time: https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 311786021/ 11. This one is quite significant and was discovered by J_Galt and confirmed by a worker at the library. The grand rotunda of the Milwaukee Public library ALSO has 92 stairs. Damn you Milwaukee and your consistent stair counts. We have yet to explore this further. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And finally... My favorite idea for a dig spot. decibalnyc I would love to come with you to GPR this spot... Here is an old pic of Pere Marquette: https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 287839576/ There is a tree in Pere Marquette Park that fits the outline of the cape almost perfectly. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 126024558/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 126188650/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 693689623/ It also happens to be at the southern foot of a bridge in a spot that is partially concealed to view. You can also see the Usingers sign (“U”) plainly between the trees from the south side. Did I mention that the bridge has a culvert underneath it and bells on its control towers. Oh, and it also would have been almost a perfect match to the view of city hall in the illustration before the PAC was built (after 1982 btw). Also, coincidentally the historical society building is strikingly similar to that of a harpsichord. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 127895347/ I also referenced an old map of the park and there appears to be birch trees growing there in a similar configuration to what is currently onsite. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 287647916/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 126188470/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 126187870/ My money says the cask is there.

Awesome post atomicleprechaun. I intend to read that Frost poem...just to be sure. I liked your take on the numbers being tied together somehow. 92 stair rotunda in the library too!? WTF Milwaukee.

Nice work...I think the 2 best finds would be the neck image by UWM....I would verify that it existed in 1982, and the 92 stairs at the library...unfortunately that doesn't explain "The Grand 200" just yet, but there are a set of eagles on the outside of the library that might come into play. That might be a reach for the compass at city hall...it does look as if it's pointing NSEW, but the only if you know your bearings...also even though there is a 92 step spiral staircase leading to the observation deck in city hall where you find the Juneau bell, I still have my concerns about him taking us indoors....so far the strangest place he's taken us is on a ferry boat. All good observations, possibly the answer to your rebus question is this... https://www.dropbox.com/s/ogf5x6n18c9ip ... K.png?dl=0

Also it should be mentioned the oval track is a 1/5 mile track not a standard 1/4 mile.

The Ferry can also be bypassed, I'd be skeptical of anything that specifically requires a car or going indoors. Yes, you need a car to skip the ferry, but once you 'get' the clue you don't have to physically ride the boat. You'd absolutely have to go inside for that one.

decibalnyc wrote:: I still have my concerns about him taking us indoors....so far the strangest place he's taken us is on a ferry boat. shecrab wrote:: um....in the interest of accuracy, The Baum Ferry was not built or delivered to the state of North Carolina until 1995 and it does not run to Roanoke Island. The TA Baum ferry runs from Cape Hatteras to Ocracoke, well south of Roanoke Island. The ferry LINE in North Carolina was operational in 1947, when the NC Highway commission bought the T.A. BAUM's ferry COMPANY . At that time, the single ferry ran from Manns Harbor to Roanoke Island. Today, no ferry connect Roanoke I. with anything. Instead, there are two bridges--one of which is probably the same as that first ferry route. The correct Baum item is the Washington-Baum Bridge--which connects the outer banks to Roanoke island on the other (East) side of the island. The route is US 64--this route connect Roanoke Island to the Mainland via the Virginia Dare Memorial Bridge. . Obligatory reposting of the Standard Shecrab Correction TM :

Good fact checking. I mostly rely on maltedfalcon's criticisms these days. Shecrab use to be a huge help to the hunt. She has been missed. People who understand the nuances of diction are a great resource. I have lots of trouble in that area.

Also, Roanoke is the only puzzle (that we know for as sure as we can be) where the distance between relevant clues and the treasure ground is too far to travel on foot. So " Ride the man of oz" could just be a subtle hint to that fact and not meant to be taken literally. All the other words Preiss uses are measures of foot travel (hop, step, walk, pace, etc), probably because either you can see the relevant clue from where you are standing (the Sutro Tower in SF for example), or you pass them on your pleasant little walk from Point A to Point T. If a clue isn't obvious from ground level, then it's probably not relevant to the puzzle IMO.

Right, so if we rule out the grand avenue mall and city hall, and we don't find another match for the 92 stairs, we are left with Lake Park and the Mitchell Domes. Since the Domes have 92 steps, divided into 4 sections and no bridge over a culvert, we have to think that Lake Park is a pretty solid match...finding that neck symbol by UWM was a huge deal. Also has anyone considered that Mason St. which is only a block from Wells, turns into Lincoln Memorial Drive at the lake and if you follow it to the end, where do you end up...on Kenwood...so like the Roanoke puzzle, the stating point may be downtown. At a distance in time from 3 who lived there to me is referring either to the 3 Mitchells, or to the city founders, not streets, I am confident of that. The woman with harpsichord line has yet to be translated to anyone's satisfaction. The biggest clue we have is 92 steps outside somewhere. Lake park meets that the best so far, and the verse does take you to a certain area, but we have not matched anything solid in lake park which is troubling. If he only gave us 2 trees to match for the park, we might have found 1 in the cottonwood tree but not everyone agree's. And what of this bird in the lower left? GPR day will be sometime in mid-late Feb. If anyone wants to meet up, let me know. Until then, start figuring out some dig spots that we can put the radar on.

Also the problem with Pere Marquette Park, which I have examined closely every time I go to the Historical society, is that if you were to walk 100 paces SE from under the bridge, you would be in the river. You could argue that the riverwalk runs sort of southeast (but more south) but then if you took the riverwalk 100 paces SE from the bridge you pass all 3 birches which are on the north side of the park. It's a cool spot, and I have often tried to shoehorn an idea there, but I just don't see it. I've also checked out the Juneau statue where we have the best match for the image so far, and that only leads you to in front of the war memorial looking for the area where the clump birch was at, and then the PTF, it seems we can find pieces that fit all over, but LP so far...has the verse matched up from the stairs on out.

Unknown: but we have not matched anything solid in lake park which is troubling We have the tee markers, and a fairly close match between the Lion's Bridge sentries and the juggler's face. Coincidentally (or by design if you subscribe to the theory that the verses were written after Preiss had the corresponding image from Palencar in hand), that is the one part of the Milwaukee puzzle where you have a directional decision to make and where the verse isn't explicit as to your next move. As I've said many times, I find it almost impossible to believe that the red balls in the image are not representative of the tee markers on the golf course, and the only way we can incorporate them into the solve is to go south at the top of the GS, around the pavilion, and toward the lighthouse. The lions would be further confirmation that you are on the right path, at which point, the verse takes over again and tells you everything else you need to know to dig up the casque.

Oh yea, I forgot about the Tee Balls, that was my find a long time ago duh! Thanks Renovator! Also I was thinking about the top of the staircase, I like MF's theory about the way the hand is pointing...left, so you would go left at the top of the stairs when the verse is unclear, yet you are :-)

Here are the photos of the light posts at the top of the Grand Staircase and the items around Ravine Rd and the base of the Locust St. Trail. You'll notice the light post on the South side of the staircase is the one with the Masonic G and Square and Compass. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9sl1wptp2zri ... HS3Ma?dl=0

decibalnyc wrote:: Here are the photos of the light posts at the top of the Grand Staircase and the items around Ravine Rd and the base of the Locust St. Trail. You'll notice the light post on the South side of the staircase is the one with the Masonic G and Square and Compass. Yay! Photos from Lake Park! I know Milwaukee is a little bit colder than where I am right now, so thanks for going out there and doing that. Three thoughts come immediately to mind: That panel on the north lamp at the top of the staircase is obviously a replacement. We can say that with certainty because A) the lamps would have been all the same when they were installed, and B) the panel that's there now is bright, shiny, and new. You can keep exterior metal shiny for 30 years if it's constantly being rubbed (like a stairway handrail), but a panel at the base of a lamppost? No way. That's a replacement panel that's been installed in the past 10 years. I think we can safely assume that the post still had the original masonic compass in 1982. I know several people are reluctant to turn right at the top of the stairs because they like the idea of the red juggling balls being the tee markers on the golf course. But you don't need to abandon that interpretation when you follow the Locust Trail route. Remember that circular design from the Chicago puzzle? It turned out to be an architectural detail from a building several blocks away from the treasure spot. Preiss wasn't saying that we needed to go past that store or even see that store on our route. He was just throwing in an interesting feature from the general area. And the tee markers on the Lake Park golf course can still be a nearby feature even if you turn right at the top of the staircase and go over the bridge. We still haven't seen the most important clue for our puzzle: the birch stumps along East Ravine Drive. I keep pushing for people to look for the stumps now , in the dead of winter, because this is the only time we'll see them. During spring, summer, and fall, that stretch of road is just a thicket of Ailanthus and any stumps are hidden away. I don't know if Decibalnyc is up for going back out in the cold, but it would be great if someone could get us photos of the crucial area. Go to the base of the Locust Street Trail, where East Ravine Road meets Lincoln Memorial Drive, and then start walking up East Ravine Road, photographing the strip of land between the trail and the road . I want to see the north edge of the road all the way from the "millstone" to the footbridge with the two circles. There are only two birches that Preiss would possibly know: Paper Birch ( Betula papyrifera ) or European White Birch ( Betula pendula ). Either way, you're looking for a stump showing white bark marked with horizontal black lines (lenticels). Good luck!

Unknown: I know several people are reluctant to turn right at the top of the stairs because they like the idea of the red juggling balls being the tee markers on the golf course That would be me. Because of the red balls. And the fact that this takes the Lion Bridges and the lighthouse out of the solve (two of Lake Park's most interesting features) as well. But mostly because we now have three distinct lines in the verse that say essentially the same thing (climb the staircase), and that just seems unnecessarily redundant to me. Especially when the first line (ascend the 92 steps) is so unambiguous. I do agree that now is a great time to do reconnaissance, despite the weather. Assuming that there isn't too much snow on the ground. From the pictures, it looks very pretty, in a wintry kind of way. But then again, I'm a skier. Cold weather doesn't bother me much.

Why do people keep calling that thing a millstone? It's not a millstone! Doesn't even look like one.

forest_blight wrote:: Why do people keep calling that thing a millstone? It's not a millstone! Doesn't even look like one. If you've got a better nickname, I'm open to suggestions! The concrete donut? Portal to Hell? Lake Park's bellybutton?

Oregonian wrote:: If you've got a better nickname, I'm open to suggestions! The concrete donut? Portal to Hell? Lake Park's bellybutton? that Portal to Hell is the "Secret"! We are all sucked in!!! Can't wait to see the theories now on how Dante's Inferno ties to the hunt...

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: That would be me. Because of the red balls. And the fact that this takes the Lion Bridges and the lighthouse out of the solve (two of Lake Park's most interesting features) as well. Renovator, I think you might be making the mistake of following the route you would prefer rather than the route that Preiss has given us. First you didn't like the idea of taking a path that doubled back on itself. Then you wanted to go by the golf course to see the red spheres. And now you think we should go to the lighthouse and the Lion Bridges because they have more historical interest. It's like the old gag about the drunk who loses his keys in one place but looks somewhere else because the light is better. Other routes through Lake Park might have more scenery or convenience, but that's irrelevant. All we should be using are the clues that are in the book. And the route over the Ravine Road footbridge and down the Locust Street Trail is still the only route that even comes close to meeting those instructions: Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil Plus, it has the added visual match of explaining the cicada nymph and the millstone portal to Hell. And I predict that, if someone makes it out there before spring, we will find the birch stump(s) as well. After 33 years, this is as good a match as we could possibly hope to find.

Oregonian wrote:: Renovator, I think you might be making the mistake of following the route you would prefer rather than the route that Preiss has given us. First you didn't like the idea of taking a path that doubled back on itself. Then you wanted to go by the golf course to see the red spheres. And now you think we should go to the lighthouse and the Lion Bridges because they have more historical interest. It's like the old gag about the drunk who loses his keys in one place but looks somewhere else because the light is better. Other routes through Lake Park might have more scenery or convenience, but that's irrelevant. All we should be using are the clues that are in the book. And the route over the Ravine Road footbridge and down the Locust Street Trail is still the only route that even comes close to meeting those instructions: Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil Plus, it has the added visual match of explaining the cicada nymph and the millstone portal to Hell. And I predict that, if someone makes it out there before spring, we will find the birch stump(s) as well. After 33 years, this is as good a match as we could possibly hope to find. I don't see that there is too much of a "preferred route" here. You "ascend the 92 steps" (the Lake Park staircase) "After climbing the grand 200" (again the same staircase-just reading it again as a new line) You "pass the compass and reach...the foot of the culvert" (here, from the text we can assume going: left: takes you to the North Point Lighthouse and you reach the foot of the culvert below a bridge or right: takes you by the Masonic compass and you reach the foot of the bridge at E. Ravine Rd) So you do have a split/decision to make here. Now, I know 100 paces from the beginning/foot of the culvert has been stepped off on the Lighthouse side, but has anyone stepped it off on the E. Ravine Rd side? To me, looking at GMaps anyway, it looks like walking 100 paces southeast (I would check to see if it's "rock and soil" too...) moves you back in, towards the grand stairs. Now, if you start at the foot of the ravine on the OTHER side of E. Ravine Rd (on the trail), I can see where this comes out to the Hell Stone. But, if you do take that trail southeast toward said Hell Stone, to reach a birch tree, you can't come to another birch unless you cross a road? Do the trees match up going this route? To me, you can't count five birch trees moving west (back towards the stairs...from Google anyway). I personally, would check these things. If they don't match up how the verse says, I would call this one off.

Unknown: It's like the old gag about the drunk who loses his keys in one place but looks somewhere else because the light is better. Hey now, you can't belittle me with my own joke (Image 10 thread; Page 25; about halfway down). Find something original. With regard to the East Ravine Road solve that you are championing, my concerns are clear, consistent, and well documented in this thread for anyone who wants to read them. They are free to use that information in any way they see fit. By the same token, there are at least three or four people in the Milwaukee area that read this forum (that I know of, and probably several more that lurk), and if any one of them is convinced by your theory, then they have all the information they need to go dig it up this spring. They may already have for all we know. No need to take this so personally Oregonian. Ultimately, we are after the same thing.

tjgrey wrote:: Now, I know 100 paces from the beginning/foot of the culvert has been stepped off on the Lighthouse side, but has anyone stepped it off on the E. Ravine Rd side? To me, looking at GMaps anyway, it looks like walking 100 paces southeast (I would check to see if it's "rock and soil" too...) moves you back in, towards the grand stairs. Now, if you start at the foot of the ravine on the OTHER side of E. Ravine Rd (on the trail), I can see where this comes out to the Hell Stone. But, if you do take that trail southeast toward said Hell Stone, to reach a birch tree, you can't come to another birch unless you cross a road? Do the trees match up going this route? To me, you can't count five birch trees moving west (back towards the stairs...from Google anyway). Hmm.... I think you might be taking the lines slightly out of order. If you turn right at the top of the stairs and pass the Masonic compass that was once on the lamppost, you will reach the Ravine Road footbridge. And at the far, northwest corner of the footbridge there's a culvert that leads down to the Locust Street Trail. (It's actually an official connection to the trail. I think somewhere on the city website there's even a map that labels it as a "culvert.") Once you descend to the foot of the culvert and go below the bridge (on the Locust Street Trail), THEN you start counting out the 100 paces southeast over rock and soil . The trail is definitely made of "rock and soil" and it definitely runs southeast to the Hell Stone. The birches, if they ever existed, were planted in that strip of land that runs east-west between the trail and the road. They're gone now and we just haven't been able to see the stumps because that area is covered with a sea of Ailanthus for 9 months out of the year. You win the official Dancing Skittles Award for the term "Hell Stone."

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Hey now, you can't belittle me with my own joke (Image 10 thread; Page 25; about halfway down). Find something original. Your joke??? I was acting out that skit as a camp counselor in Oregon 25 years ago! I've got first dibs! I didn't mean anything critical by what I was saying, and I hope you didn't take it that way. I just think we all need to take a step back and be sure we're not imposing our own conditions on a hunt set up by somebody else. There was somebody on here the other day who was saying that the Boston casque couldn't be hidden in Charlesgate because it's such an ugly area. (Was there some promise in The Secret that we would only be taken to attractive places?) Imposing our own preconditions about where Preiss is taking us and what he wants to show us is a sure route to confusion. Maybe we're going someplace nice and historic, but maybe not. We just need to follow the clues.

So...you are under the foot bridge with the big "O"-shaped holes in it. From under the bridge, you take 100 paces in the southeast direction. (As you can see, the trail here is not rock and soil. It is concrete steps and an asphalt walkway.) If the 100 paces leave you near the concrete circular slab, that is where you should see the "first young birch". Then.....you must "pass three... staying west " to be able to see the proud tall 5th. This area does not appear to follow the steps in the verse.

animal painter wrote:: So...you are under the foot bridge with the big "O"-shaped holes in it. From under the bridge, you take 100 paces in the southeast direction. (As you can see, the trail here is not rock and soil. It is concrete steps and an asphalt walkway.) If the 100 paces leave you near the concrete circular slab, that is where you should see the "first young birch". Then.....you must "pass three... staying west " to be able to see the proud tall 5th. This area does not appear to follow the steps in the verse. The two photos you've got there are taken from Lincoln Memorial Drive looking west toward the footbridge. And, yes, there's a stretch of pavement there at the bottom. But that's not the stretch Preiss is talking about! You're approaching the trail from the wrong end. Look at the map below to see the actual route. We cross the Lake Park Footbridge, descend the culvert (at "D"), join the Locust Street Trail, and then pass under the bridge. (And that section of the trail very definitely IS made of rock and soil.) We start counting our 100 steps and get to about where the big "E" is on my map. We see our birch, pass the rest of them, and get to the treasure tree somewhere near the Hell Stone. "Staying west" just tells us to stay on this side of Lincoln Memorial Drive. If we reach the road, we've gone too far. Tjgrey, can you come up with a good nickname for that footbridge? It needs a handle.

I believe that the 100 steps are supposed to start "under the bridge". The distance from under the bridge to the concrete steps with the wood hand rail does not seem to be long enough to be 100 paces. Someone may want to count that stretch